That, John, is the entire issue in a nutshell. It doesn't matter what is best in Absolute-Land. It doesn't matter what is best for Joe Vaper. When we recommend a PV for a newb, all that matters is what is suitable for that individual. That is what will determine whether they will stick to vaping or go back to analogs. If they stick to vaping, they'll find out soon enough what is best in absolute terms. If they don't, they'll go away and die.
New Variable Voltage device from smoktech?
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That, John, is the entire issue in a nutshell. It doesn't matter what is best in Absolute-Land. It doesn't matter what is best for Joe Vaper. When we recommend a PV for a newb, all that matters is what is suitable for that individual. That is what will determine whether they will stick to vaping or go back to analogs. If they stick to vaping, they'll find out soon enough what is best in absolute terms. If they don't, they'll go away and die.
Here's another thing to consider. Remember when you smoked? Remember how every cigarette tasted exactly the same. Remember how, if you liked a cigarette, you liked every cigarette to taste exactly the same and you had no interest in trying other cigarettes or making your cigarette stronger or weaker or different in any way?
That's the mindset of a new vaper. They want consistency. If it tastes good and works the same every time, that's what they want. Only later do they really want to experiment. Up to that time, they're only experimenting to find something they like, not in search of the "perfect vape". One of the things I see over and over is newbs praising the volt. Every cartridge tastes the same. If they find a flavor they like right away, it takes them some time before they start checking out other flavors, let alone cultivating an interest in varying their vapor.
As experienced vapers, our desires and tastes are different. What we look for in a vape is not necessarily what a brand new vaper is looking for. So, what we value in a PV won't be what is important to a newbie.
That's the mindset of a new vaper. They want consistency. If it tastes good and works the same every time, that's what they want. Only later do they really want to experiment. Up to that time, they're only experimenting to find something they like, not in search of the "perfect vape". One of the things I see over and over is newbs praising the volt. Every cartridge tastes the same. If they find a flavor they like right away, it takes them some time before they start checking out other flavors, let alone cultivating an interest in varying their vapor.
As experienced vapers, our desires and tastes are different. What we look for in a vape is not necessarily what a brand new vaper is looking for. So, what we value in a PV won't be what is important to a newbie.
John, Since we are 'predicting'... I'll guess he picks on the '360 degree circle rotating' fire button a bit. He can't make it too close to the Provari or those of that order will descend upon him like locust and take his away from him.
Those of us who think the VMax is close 'nuff to the Provari can bypass that step and get in the Darwin que. ;-)
Skip
Excellent! Very well put and I think a very accurate picture. I know my first 'gift' eGo kit was all I could handle at the time (Sept 2nd, 2011) and it came with 2 batts and a couple atties. Catridges, Cartomizers, Atomizers, dripping... it was a lot to absorb in a very short time.
It turns my stomach when people state that those who are happy and content with their present equipment should not be happy and content with their present equipment.
I never hesitate to tell people how pleased I am with what I have, but I never tell them that they should not be happy with what they have, regardless of what it is. If they are unhappy with it, they can figure that out on their own.
I can see that there are advantages of convenience to owning a VW device that can adjust the voltage automatically to match the resistance of a device to the wattage that I prefer to vape at. The Russians and Germans have taken the lead in this direction, while we debate which color LCD is best and assume that more watts is the answer to all our vaping worries.
JMHO
I never hesitate to tell people how pleased I am with what I have, but I never tell them that they should not be happy with what they have, regardless of what it is. If they are unhappy with it, they can figure that out on their own.
I can see that there are advantages of convenience to owning a VW device that can adjust the voltage automatically to match the resistance of a device to the wattage that I prefer to vape at. The Russians and Germans have taken the lead in this direction, while we debate which color LCD is best and assume that more watts is the answer to all our vaping worries.
JMHO
While "turns my stomach" is a little strong, I agree with the sentiment in principle. Someone can indeed be very happy with something, especially if they don't know that there's something better, and even if they do know there's something better.
That said, I don't think it's a crime to offer alternatives that can be proven to provide a better vape; alternatives that can then either be explored, or not explored, at the discretion of the recipient of the advice.
"If they are unhappy with it, they can figure that out on their own".
With that, we go from "newbies know nothing" to "newbies know exactly what an optimum vape is."
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Wow!
I'm very impressed with the recent string of posts. All well written and all very good points / views on the noob / VV device discussion.
While sitting here reading thru and really enjoying the quality of the posts I found it ironic that while I've got 3 VV tube type mods, a VV box, and a stacked battery tube mod, all with charged batteries in them sitting here on the desk, I'm actually vaping on a little 3.7v 3xAA box. Two IMR 14500s in parallel with a 1.8 ohm 901 atty. Dripping some 'Mounds Candy' into it. Not a real 'sophisticated' setup.
I've got a friend who went from corner store rechargeable to an eGo type device to a 1 x 14500 box to a dual battery box like this and he will not look at anything else. It's his little vaping heaven. I even gave him a 5v box. I was by there today and saw that he's back to his little white 2x14500 3.7v box with a Boge carto on it.
A point? Not really. I just found it ironic that I was vaping a 3.7v box mod whilst reading about new VV stuff.
Good discussion folks. Thanx to all for the good read.
Skip
I'm very impressed with the recent string of posts. All well written and all very good points / views on the noob / VV device discussion.
While sitting here reading thru and really enjoying the quality of the posts I found it ironic that while I've got 3 VV tube type mods, a VV box, and a stacked battery tube mod, all with charged batteries in them sitting here on the desk, I'm actually vaping on a little 3.7v 3xAA box. Two IMR 14500s in parallel with a 1.8 ohm 901 atty. Dripping some 'Mounds Candy' into it. Not a real 'sophisticated' setup.
I've got a friend who went from corner store rechargeable to an eGo type device to a 1 x 14500 box to a dual battery box like this and he will not look at anything else. It's his little vaping heaven. I even gave him a 5v box. I was by there today and saw that he's back to his little white 2x14500 3.7v box with a Boge carto on it.
A point? Not really. I just found it ironic that I was vaping a 3.7v box mod whilst reading about new VV stuff.
Good discussion folks. Thanx to all for the good read.
Skip
I am into trying new things also but I have been vaping fulltime almost 2 years now
You missed the point I think. It's a learning experience. Nobody proposes that they'll figure out anything instantly.
The way to remedy being unhappy with their vape is not necessarily achieving or even knowing what the "optimum vape" is.
People vape for years never achieving, desiring or even looking for, the "optimum vape", whatever that is.
So, with that, we are not going where you say we're going at all.
The keys are time, hands-on experience with an adequate pv and some research.
Wasn't saying VV wasn't the best vape, I am saying it's a matter of choice. I personally don't use anything but VV PVs. You just come across like your way is the only way.
Errol
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I don't think that's fair to say, as stated. That said, instead of just "coming across" as saying anything in particular, I'll repeat what I have said before, and that is that I consider it a fact that there is no way to get a vape that's better than what could be achieved with a good VV device. Equalled under certain limited conditions, but not surpassed.
Now, I'd be happy to leave this discussion of noob advice.
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This has been a very "Healthy" discussion so far. I know what happened to me when I started, I found it complicated, and it took me 4 month to find this forum, and then I found far too much information, unable to separate the real information from the fanclubs info and hypes about every new stuff that hitted the market. My first VV was smartvapes vv box, with some personal help from BHerbst here at ECF helping me alot. Thank you very much Bill.
Nowadays cartos, tanks and batterys are so much easyer to vape with then just two years ago. What happened to me, after a time I started to follow some people in their findings, who seemed more reasonable to me then others, and it helped. In an ideal world you would have a mentor you feel you can trust, that guides you through the learning process.
Its not a bad idea to start with a pair of good EGO bats, and easy refillable and good vape and flavour producing cartos, and three or four juices, and then changing on the go stuff when you are prepared for it, or feel the need to do so. IMO.
Nowadays cartos, tanks and batterys are so much easyer to vape with then just two years ago. What happened to me, after a time I started to follow some people in their findings, who seemed more reasonable to me then others, and it helped. In an ideal world you would have a mentor you feel you can trust, that guides you through the learning process.
Its not a bad idea to start with a pair of good EGO bats, and easy refillable and good vape and flavour producing cartos, and three or four juices, and then changing on the go stuff when you are prepared for it, or feel the need to do so. IMO.
To: Donnah & others
Re: 3v feels like 5v
I didn't find it to be anywhere near this in my initial side by side HERE. Since then I've also compared it to my stacked battery Chuck. Which under load is doing about 5.5v. I moved that 2.5ohm DC carto/tank/juice combo over to the VMaxx and ended up setting it at 5.4v for the same 'vape'. So while I do find it to be 'stronger', to me, it's definitely less than .5v and probably more in the 0.1 to 0.2v range.
I just checked it with a 'milder' juice (KBV Fiddle Paddle) taking the 3.0 ohm Boge standard carto from my 6A regulated OKR box to the VMax and back and forth a few times. Setting the 6A OKR to a under load voltage of 4.19v vapes about the same as the VMax set at 4.0v. This is almost with in the range of meter variation. The display in my OKR box typically reads a bit high compared to decent meter. My point being that IMO it's not 3v vs 5v difference.
Re: 3v feels like 5v
I didn't find it to be anywhere near this in my initial side by side HERE. Since then I've also compared it to my stacked battery Chuck. Which under load is doing about 5.5v. I moved that 2.5ohm DC carto/tank/juice combo over to the VMaxx and ended up setting it at 5.4v for the same 'vape'. So while I do find it to be 'stronger', to me, it's definitely less than .5v and probably more in the 0.1 to 0.2v range.
I just checked it with a 'milder' juice (KBV Fiddle Paddle) taking the 3.0 ohm Boge standard carto from my 6A regulated OKR box to the VMax and back and forth a few times. Setting the 6A OKR to a under load voltage of 4.19v vapes about the same as the VMax set at 4.0v. This is almost with in the range of meter variation. The display in my OKR box typically reads a bit high compared to decent meter. My point being that IMO it's not 3v vs 5v difference.
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Freddie ... I don't know quite how to say this, but a real friend will tell you the truth, so I just hafta say .... your setup sucks.
You should have gone with the chrome DCT tank with a black drip tip.
View attachment 95739View attachment 95740
John...Didn't you know Chrome should go ALL the way up...... lol..lol......purdy's one thing but beauty....well thats a whole different ballgame. All in good fun brotha. Glad to hear you got it ....and you like it. ....... J
yea, I saw a couple video reviews on the pwm technology and how even though the voltmeter shows and actual drop in voltage, the vape still felt like it was at a higher voltage. Interesting, now that I saw an explanation of how it actually works. I, myself don't see it as either good or bad, just different. I can see how many will enjoy it. I can see it being a problem for me if all my other devices gave a certain voltage and felt like that voltage and then having something with pwm that felt different, even a little different. But as long as I understand how it's working, I'd be OK. Sorta like how I know what an inch and mile look like and feel like but then there's the metric system and even though I know what a ml is and how much it should be.. I have a hard time with other metric measurements. So I can now understand where the terms "beast" and "monster" come from. Won't be getting one in the near future anyway (actually I won't be getting anything in the near future LOL) because of last night's sale
Thanks for doing the testing, it made it all a lot clearer
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YOU mean like this JOHN...HAHAHA...LOL!freddie ... I don't know quite how to say this, but a real friend will tell you the truth, so i just hafta say .... Your setup sucks.
You should have gone with the chrome dct tank with a black drip tip.
View attachment 95739View attachment 95740View attachment 96393View attachment 96394
john...didn't you know chrome should go all the way up...... Lol..lol......purdy's one thing but beauty....well thats a whole different ballgame. All in good fun brotha. Glad to hear you got it ....and you like it. ....... J
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I just got my first Variable voltage device 20 days ago and the results should be evident to anyone looking at my signature.
I started off with a crappy KR808D that a local vendor (whos now out of business) was selling for 69.99 with a lifetime replacement on atomizers.The batteries lasted two hours if I was lucky and really only performed well for the first couple of hits on a full charge.That lasted about a week before I started smoking again.
I waited a couple of years and tried the Ego-T and while it was and still is arguable better, my Provari with a tank setup blows it out of the water in terms of dependability, ease of use and getting that perfect hit EVERY single time.
IMO its the perfect example of good old American ingenuity taking something that was a great idea and making it even better and I wish Id found it a couple of years ago.
I started off with a crappy KR808D that a local vendor (whos now out of business) was selling for 69.99 with a lifetime replacement on atomizers.The batteries lasted two hours if I was lucky and really only performed well for the first couple of hits on a full charge.That lasted about a week before I started smoking again.
I waited a couple of years and tried the Ego-T and while it was and still is arguable better, my Provari with a tank setup blows it out of the water in terms of dependability, ease of use and getting that perfect hit EVERY single time.
IMO its the perfect example of good old American ingenuity taking something that was a great idea and making it even better and I wish Id found it a couple of years ago.
That strikes me as kind of funny. You must be a youngish fellow because, not so long ago, that wasn't at all the definition of good old American ingenuity. Not to sound pedantic, but part of ingenuity is originality, but that's another issue.
The thing is, America used to be the innovators and the birthplace of the great ideas. We used to be the problem solvers. We found ingenious solutions. That's what American ingenuity was. The Japanese were the ones known for taking great ideas, usually ours, refining them and making them better. Just goes to show you how far downhill America has fallen while nobody noticed.
Don't misunderstand. I'm not taking anything away from Provapes at all. The Provari is a fine machine, but hardly ingenious. And I certainly don't mean any offense to you. If you never saw the top of the hill, you can't be expected to know when you're halfway to the bottom.
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Interesting discussion. I think most newcomers, not all, want a seamless transition from analogs to ecigs, so that means first try is a 808 style most likely. The 808's are light years ahead of the crappy 3 piece I tried 2 years ago, so not a bad thing to start with. Once they get vaping, they want more batt life, and don't care about size so much, the ego types fit that, but for me the quality of flavor was not there on the ego type, so next is the APV's, then VV was my last purchase. Personally I had to go thru the transitions. Some people won't they straight to VV. But to truely appreciate VV vaping I think you have to go thru the transitional PV's to get there. JMO. bnrk
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