New York State BAN in Full Force - Denied Supplies

[ecoflowerpower]

I live in Brooklyn NY & received my supplies fine today.

 

[Quick1]

Well, my initial scare dwindled away....i called in a phone order through TW - Naomi told me that PayPal has cut them off - oh well, goods on the way - If nothing else, this brought together a good post

Didn't need to go past post #5

I believe PayPal allows sales of Ecigs, if the company is based out of the US. Almost sure it is OK with them since the supplier isn't selling on US soil.. All the Chinese suppliers use PayPal with no problems at all..

PayPal UK, PayPal China, etc. are not PayPal US and each has different policies. TW will (sometimes?) route your payment through their UK PayPal account ...and then since it's a foreign PayPal your bank is likely to charge you a foreign transaction fee

 

[Hammond Egger]

Well, my initial scare dwindled away....i called in a phone order through TW - Naomi told me that PayPal has cut them off - oh well, goods on the way - If nothing else, this brought together a good post

Somebody is giving you bad info. Your original post was dated 4/30. I ordered from them using paypal on 5/5 with no problem and the order was shipped on 5/7.

 

[Quick1]

Somebody is giving you bad info. Your original post was dated 4/30. I ordered from them using paypal on 5/5 with no problem and the order was shipped on 5/7.

Read the post above yours... I believe you'll find that your payment will be made through their PayPal UK account. You will be able to tell if your bank or however you funded the transaction charges a foreign transaction fee.

 

[Hammond Egger]

Read the post above yours... I believe you'll find that your payment will be made through their PayPal UK account. You will be able to tell if your bank or however you funded the transaction charges a foreign transaction fee.

Nope, no foreign transaction fee and payee listed as Pillbox38(USA) Ltd.

 

[miss MiA]

The 'branch' you ordered from is the USA store, and not all banks charge foreign transaction fees. TW has confirmed the charge is incurred sometimes, for the reason given by Quick1; for example here.

 

[Hudsonkm]

This is paypal's official statement on its help center. Perhaps they are incorrectly including E-Cigarettes as a tobacco product.

"PayPal generally prohibits transactions for all types of tobacco products, including cigarettes, cigars, and smokeless tobacco due to legal requirements and industry regulations for online tobacco sales."
Any merchant selling these products and offering PP is either doing so without PP's knowledge or with written permission. That permission can be revoked by PP at any time, for any reason, without explanation, and without recourse by the merchant.

And a reply from a paypal user after another user pointed out that E-Cig's are not tobacco. Paypal came down on them once they found out.

I just got spanked for selling an ecig starter kit, which included 6 refill cartridges that had 0mg nicotine...none. I wonder how much big tobacco companies paid Ebay and PP? Isn't there a law against restricting legal trade in this country? This is completely wrong....I feel like I don't live in America anymore. Basically, it's okay to consume nicotine, as long as it's in the most toxic disguise. :smileysad:

Another post :
Paypal does not let you buy e-cig related stuff anymore through their service. Long involved story but there are still some vendors who haven’t been “caught” by Paypal yet. If your vendor still accepts paypal DO NOT mention e-cigs in a review or rating or comment. Just pay for the “goods” & complete the transaction. This does not mean the vendor is shady or unreliable, it could just mean they don’t have an alternate payment method in place yet.

And from another site :
Previously, ASH, in a legal letter sent to PayPal, advised the company that providing payment for electronic cigarettes "appears to be aiding and abetting the sale of these illegal products by providing payment vehicles to Internet sites which are selling them, and doing so in interstate commerce and in possible violation of consumer protection laws in the individual states."

PayPal was also warned that: "As the FDA and others have noted, electronic cigarettes pose a wide variety of potential dangers to users, and perhaps also to those around them, both of whom inhale a mixture of nicotine (a dangerous drug) and propylene glycol (which is used in antifreeze and may cause respiratory tract irritation

In response, PayPal is no longer facilitating the sale of this product. Facebook has reportedly decided that "we do not allow ads for electronic cigarettes and will not allow the creation of any further Facebook Ads for this product."

 

[Hudsonkm]

Oh and a further addition.

After researching the topic it is looking like its possible that paypal did in fact restrict E-Cigarette sales.

However, from what I am seeing it seems like they changed their stance since then.

 

[miss MiA]

Hi Hudsonkm, no question about it, it's definitely true that Paypal (US) cut off ecig-related sales awhile ago (as did Amazon & others); the main trigger being those threatening letters from ASH (US 'leg') re the implications of continuing to facilitate sales of an 'illegal unapproved drug device.' Violators can and have had their PP accounts permanently revoked, and any funds in it even frozen sometimes. We do occasionally see small outfits still accepting it, at least for awhile until they establish other methods, but it's a big risk obviously. That's also why in the classifieds here, even members with personal PP accounts who will take PP always say 'No mention of ecigs,' and it's in a sticky too.

But, that's PP in the US. In at least some other countries it apparently can still be accepted (and above-board) for ecig-related purchases. TW is UK-based, and as of now anyway it appears to still be ok there. So what they've been doing is in reality routing PP purchases made via its 'USA' store through its UK PP account. Did you click the link I posted above? A TW spokesperson confirms that in the linked post (as well as the part about how they do this because it wouldn't be possible to just use PP US instead). Now, whether that's actually 'ok' on all levels might be another matter, don't know. And I've never purchased from TW myself.

 

[Hudsonkm]

Hi Hudsonkm, no question about it, it's definitely true that Paypal (US) cut off ecig-related sales awhile ago (as did Amazon & others); the main trigger being those threatening letters from ASH (US 'leg') re the implications of continuing to facilitate sales of an 'illegal unapproved drug device.' Violators can and have had their PP accounts permanently revoked, and any funds in it even frozen sometimes. We do occasionally see small outfits still accepting it, at least for awhile until they establish other methods, but it's a big risk obviously. That's also why in the classifieds here, even members with personal PP accounts who will take PP always say 'No mention of ecigs,' and it's in a sticky too.

But, that's PP in the US. In at least some other countries it apparently can still be accepted (and above-board) for ecig-related purchases. TW is UK-based, and as of now anyway it appears to still be ok there. So what they've been doing is in reality routing PP purchases made via its 'USA' store through its UK PP account. Did you click the link I posted above? A TW spokesperson confirms that in the linked post (as well as the part about how they do this because it wouldn't be possible to just use PP US instead). Now, whether that's actually 'ok' on all levels might be another matter, don't know. And I've never purchased from TW myself.

Makes sense.. Well I mean in how it applies and not that the decision by PalPal makes sense.

I had been saying for awhile now that PayPal was freezing merchant services for companies selling E-Cigarettes. But on these forums and elsewhere people were claiming that it wasn't the case and that so and so uses paypal and its just fine.

So now I'm assuming the confusion relates to the fact that some merchants go through PayPal UK and/or the ones using PayPal US are able to because PayPal hasn't found out what they are selling yet. As you pointed out in your post.

I'm trying to remember the name of the Merchant Services company that recently dropped Viking Vapors due to the fact that they sold E-Juice. It wasn't PayPal I do know that. I only mention it because it's startling to see that even some of the smaller companies are dropping E-Cig clients as well.

Oh and I love your Avatar.

 

[miss MiA]

So now I'm assuming the confusion relates to the fact that some merchants go through PayPal UK and/or the ones using PayPal US are able to because PayPal hasn't found out what they are selling yet. As you pointed out in your post.

Yup, and seemingly it still flies with PP China too, or perhaps it's all just gray right now in whatever other countries it's apparently still accepted in 'openly' for ecig purchases. And yeah, when you see a US-based supplier accepting it, whether small or not or established or not... they're just gambling big time. PP apparently isn't required to follow the same regulations as banks have to, so some say the ramifications can be pretty scary... plus it could be pretty inconvenient to not be eligible for a PP account anymore, I imagine even a personal one. (Tho yes, as someone mentioned previously there are also those who don't trust PP period, and refuse to use it 'by choice.')

Oh and I love your Avatar.

Aw, thanks! To me it represents a David & Goliath thing, us noble little guy vapers impudently standing up to the big nasty Powers that Be which would quash us. You can't read what the scrappy little guy is saying because the text is too small, but... let's just say it's 'impudent.' In lieu of being able to make out the words, I also thought that line might pass for being an ecig hanging out of his mouth.

 

[Quick1]

I'm trying to remember the name of the Merchant Services company that recently dropped Viking Vapors due to the fact that they sold E-Juice. It wasn't PayPal I do know that.

Probably Google Checkout