Nic Base Storage: Freezer vs. Room Temp Experiment
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Hopefully the info you have on this thread is as good as your smartass sarcasm.https://www.carolinaxtract.com/cxtc-faq
Wut?
Should I store Nicotine Products in the freezer?
No, Absolutely not. There are two components in 100MG/ML nicotine, either nicotine and vegetable glycerin, or nicotine and propylene glycol. Although most freezer units keep temperatures around zero degrees Fharenheit some will fluctuate downward by three to five degrees, and upward by two to three degrees. While propylene glycol is not readily affected by this temperature range, both Nicotine and Vegetable Glycerin are. Damage occurs to100mg/ml nicotine products when oxides form during near-freeze/thaw cycles. So while the ice inside stays "ice," outside temperatures, thermostat performance and the number of times the freezer door is opened will affect 100MG/ML nicotine in this sensitive temperature range. Typical refrigeration temperatures, or even room temperatures are a much safer storage range than 27-33F because they are well away from freeze/thaw potential.
I'm so sorry I've been steering everyone wrong for the past 2-1/2 years.
Color and smell. See post #601 in this very thread, where I opened up one of my two year old room temperature samples to determine whether there was an additional seal under the cap. It stank quite badly.
10,000 ML / 100 MG nic in deep freeze since 2012 as my Doomsday / Apocalypse Stash .. 240 ML Blue Glass Bottles / wrapped in pieces of my Tin Foil Hat and then encased in a (clean) sock .. still like new .. 
You may remember a guy named Kurt who used to frequent this place. He's a research chemist. He always recommended storing nic in the freezer since long before I got here 5-1/2 years ago. My experiments corroborate his theories.Hopefully the info you have on this thread is as good as your smartass sarcasm.
I think I'm simply the only one who's ever been willing to intentionally let the better part of liter or so of nicotine go to to waste in order to show the difference between keeping it in the freezer and keeping it at room temperature.
Now if I could go back in time 2-1/2 years, there's one thing I would do differently: I would have gotten a third set of samples and kept those in the refrigerator.
https://www.carolinaxtract.com/cxtc-faq
Wut?
Should I store Nicotine Products in the freezer?
No, Absolutely not. There are two components in 100MG/ML nicotine, either nicotine and vegetable glycerin, or nicotine and propylene glycol. Although most freezer units keep temperatures around zero degrees Fharenheit some will fluctuate downward by three to five degrees, and upward by two to three degrees. While propylene glycol is not readily affected by this temperature range, both Nicotine and Vegetable Glycerin are. Damage occurs to100mg/ml nicotine products when oxides form during near-freeze/thaw cycles. So while the ice inside stays "ice," outside temperatures, thermostat performance and the number of times the freezer door is opened will affect 100MG/ML nicotine in this sensitive temperature range. Typical refrigeration temperatures, or even room temperatures are a much safer storage range than 27-33F because they are well away from freeze/thaw potential.
I'm so sorry I've been steering everyone wrong for the past 2-1/2 years.
A Couple of things about the Quoted Paragraph...
First of all, PG has a Freeze point of around -74F. So No One is going to be able to achieve a anywhere near the Freeze/Thaw Point using a Household Freezer.
Nicotine has a Freeze Point of -80F ~ -110F depending on the source. So once again, way below what a Household Freezer can obtain.
VG Doesn't really want to Freeze (form a Crystalline structure) in the sense that we think of. In fact, VG can be used as an Anti-Freeze for many application. VG that is 99.5% Anhydrous is said to have a "Freeze" Point of around 46F.
So a Common Household Freezer is going to hold Temperatures well Above the Freezing Point of Nicotine PG. And well Below the "Freezing" Point of VG.
I also question just How Much Freeze/Thaw is occurring in a Nicotine Base Solution due to Freezer Temperature cycling. And or from Opening/Closing the Freezer Door?
Which leads to the Main Question? How Much Damage is said to occur by this Statement....
"Damage occurs to100mg/ml nicotine products when oxides form during near-freeze/thaw cycles."
... and What is the Actual Damage from the perspective of a Vaper?
The Statement is Unquantified. And does Not define what "damage" May or May Not be.
I'm Not Disputing that "Damage" can not occur from putting Nicotine Base in a Freezer. But I would like More Information about What Type of Damage and How Much is supposed to occur as compared to their Room Temp / 27F~33F recommendation.
If I loose 10% of the Potency of a Nicotine Base that was stored in a Freezer (100mg/ml => 90mg/ml) but the Flavor has Not been effected, is that Better than loosing 5% Potency (100mg/ml => 95mg/ml) when stored by some other means, but the Flavor is Harsh?
There have been Many People here on the ECF (myself included) who have put Nicotine Base in a Freezer for an Extended Period of Time and then have used it. The Vast Majority (almost Every Single One) has Reported that they Saw/Tasted No Significant Change.
I place More Value in Scientific Experimentation than I do in Scientific Theory when the Theoretical Results are Not Well Defined. Or when such result are Not Observed withing the Parameters of what I consider Meaningful to what I want/need.
So I Wouldn't be Too Quick to think that You have steered everyone wrong by this Thread. If there were Significant Problems with putting Nicotine Base in a Freezer, I think we would have Seen/Heard more about it by now.
"or even room temperatures are a much safer storage range than 27-33F because they are well away from freeze/thaw potential."
Room temp in Western Australia in the middle of summer, yeah, nah.
First summer vaping I watched a 18mg Heisenberg and a 18mg Strawberry cream turn brown over a few days.
The instruction to keep it in a cool dark place didnt serve me well. Fridge only after that. I did still vape it until the new batch arrived. It was peppery.
3mg unflavoured with 10% dw doesnt change much at all if left out on a bench over a week during summer.
Room temp in Western Australia in the middle of summer, yeah, nah.
First summer vaping I watched a 18mg Heisenberg and a 18mg Strawberry cream turn brown over a few days.
The instruction to keep it in a cool dark place didnt serve me well. Fridge only after that. I did still vape it until the new batch arrived. It was peppery.
3mg unflavoured with 10% dw doesnt change much at all if left out on a bench over a week during summer.
The explanation from Carolina Extracts seems inconsistent, referring to zero degrees Fahrenheit then switching to 27-33 degree concerns. Maybe they intended to say centigrade?
I suspect they're well intentioned and that there's a scientific basis to what they tried to convey.
For me, it isn't enough of a factor, considering our collective experience and my basic cold storage capabilities. PG nic base in the freezer is adequate.
I suspect they're well intentioned and that there's a scientific basis to what they tried to convey.
For me, it isn't enough of a factor, considering our collective experience and my basic cold storage capabilities. PG nic base in the freezer is adequate.
Perhaps I should have added an obvious sarcasm tag. So let me be quite explicit: I think Carolina Extract's statement that you should not keep your nic base in the freezer, is, uhm, let's just say, wrong.
PS: After having seen what I've seen in the experiment documented here, and also what I experienced with the left-overs from the blind test back in 2015, there is no farking way that I would keep nic base at room temperature for any longer than absolutely necessary.
Anna of the Ark and her flaming sword are firmly in @Rossum ''s camp @Bronze .
Because.... science.
Because.... I understand that under some circumstances, companies both know and WILL give you the correct information but by no means all of them.
With that said, the ants will probably help you once your two year supply runs out, because we love you. LOL.
Anna
Because.... science.
Because.... I understand that under some circumstances, companies both know and WILL give you the correct information but by no means all of them.
With that said, the ants will probably help you once your two year supply runs out, because we love you. LOL.
Anna
Perhaps I should have added an obvious sarcasm tag. So let me be quite explicit: I think Carolina Extract's statement that you should not keep your nic base in the freezer, is, uhm, let's just say, wrong.
PS: After having seen what I've seen in the experiment documented here, and also what I experienced with the left-overs from the blind test back in 2015, there is no farking way that I would keep nic base at room temperature for any longer than absolutely necessary.
I have Always said that there should be a Universal Understanding on the ECF that Anything typed in Green Text was Sarcasm. It just Never caught on.
But if it Had, and if that post Was, it would have Saved my a Bunch of Typing.
I must have Missed this Recommendation of yours. But I've gone back and Edited my post to Comply with this Standard.
This would have been an excellent first reply!
Sorry, but I have not frequented this thread. In other words, my knowledge of nic storage is in the range of thin to none. What I do know is it is generally accepted that freezing is a good thing but I have seen exceptions to this opinion. One of them happened to be from a source that you seem to have respect for. Hence, my posting of their opinion in hopes it would be met with insightful replies.
I'm thinking the best thing for me to do is sample a couple of these suppliers (if possible). Flavor is such a sensitive thing and I'd hate to sink a bunch of dough into a liter of nic only to find out it's awful.
These experiments have been very valuable and Rossum's time and financial donations are much appreciated. Kurt explained the theoretical issues and Rossum performed practical applications to give we nic hoarders peace of mind.
It's not much of a sacrifice. I won't be missing any meals, or turning into a grumpier old man than I already am due to a lack nicotine as a result of half these samples having become (IMO) unsuitable for use as anything except perhaps insecticide.
I can think of a few juice companies who would be glad to take it off your hands.It's not much of a sacrifice. I won't be missing any meals, or turning into a grumpier old man than I already am due to a lack nicotine as a result of half these samples having become (IMO) unsuitable for use as anything except perhaps insecticide.
It's not much of a sacrifice. I won't be missing any meals, or turning into a grumpier old man than I already am due to a lack nicotine as a result of half these samples having become (IMO) unsuitable for use as anything except perhaps insecticide.
Well, Rossum, you surly curmudgeon, it was a great help to some of us on the ECF; the time and thought that went into it are appreciated.
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