Nicotine Comparisons

[Rossum]

I am new to DIY and am about to buy several liters of 100 mg. nicotine in VG for long term storage in my freezer. I'm looking at buying it from NN, Wizard, MFS or RTS, but if anyone has a better suggestion, please speak up. It looks like the best price is RTS, but I only want to buy it in amber glass bottles for storage in the freezer. Does the RTS nic come in the amber glass bottles? Looking at the picture on RTS, it appears the nic comes in either brown plastic or glass bottles, but I can't tell which is which. Please advise.

I am reading a great sticky piece on guidelines for long-term storage of nic in the freezer, but I don't understand what the author is saying about air space at the top of the bottle. Please explain this in a way that a newbie can understand. I want to buy enough nic to last my lifetime, and want it to remain in my freezer until I'm ready to mix it.

Do you have any suggestions about which nic is better tasting or better able to with stand long term storage in the freezer?

Thank you in advance for your advice, hints & tips!

J.W.

"Better tasting" is subjective. Roughly a year ago, we did a blind test with about 10 people and 4 different "premium" nics, and NN was judged the cleanest. In fact, it was too clean for some people.

NN is one of the only vendors who will ship "freezer ready" in glass bottles. My entire stash is their Armor V1 in 125 ml freezer ready bottles. At the time, I was second-guessing this choice, but the blind test convinced me it was the right choice, at least for me. However, I'm not particularly price-sensitive when it comes to this stuff and you can almost certainly save money buying less expensive nic, plus glass bottles, and re-bottle it yourself.

If you do re-bottle into glass yourself, leave a minimal amount of air. I like filling bottles right up to the base of the neck, leaving only a small amount of air. However, I don't think it's a good idea to have no air in them at all. You do want a little bit to allow for expansion and contraction of the liquid.

Also, assuming the inside of your freezer is dark (which it should be with the lid closed) the color of the glass bottles makes no difference at all, and clear glass bottles are often less expensive than amber or cobalt blue ones. If I were re-bottling nic, I would actually prefer clear bottles because it would allow me to assess the color of the nic I had in storage without having to open the bottles. However, do not skimp on the caps. You want "poly cone" caps.

 

[JustWondering1]

"Better tasting" is subjective. Roughly a year ago, we did a blind test with about 10 people and 4 different "premium" nics, and NN was judged the cleanest. In fact, it was too clean for some people.

NN is one of the only vendors who will ship "freezer ready" in glass bottles. My entire stash is their Armor V1 in 125 ml freezer ready bottles. At the time, I was second-guessing this choice, but the blind test convinced me it was the right choice, at least for me. However, I'm not particularly price-sensitive when it comes to this stuff and you can almost certainly save money buying less expensive nic, plus glass bottles, and re-bottle it yourself.

If you do re-bottle into glass yourself, leave a minimal amount of air. I like filling bottles right up to the base of the neck, leaving only a small amount of air. However, I don't think it's a good idea to have no air in them at all. You do want a little bit to allow for expansion and contraction of the liquid.

Also, assuming the inside of your freezer is dark (which it should be with the lid closed) the color of the glass bottles makes no difference at all, and clear glass is bottles are often less expensive than amber or cobalt blue ones. If I were re-bottling nic, I would actually prefer clear bottles because it would allow me to assess the color of the nic I had in storage without having to open the bottles. However, do not skimp on the caps. You want "poly cone" caps.

Thanks Rossum! I appreciate it!!

 

[AJ Steele]

The headspace in your container needs to be as small as possible - but not too small. The reason is that the air trapped in the bottle will eventually react with the nicotine. If you use some inert gas like argon to displace the air, you can solve that problem. Also, VG will expand as it warms, so you want a bit of headspace so that your bottle doesn't burst or crack.

Personally, I don't see much advantage to using VG nic, unless you mix high VG. VG will get thicker at lower temps, yes, but it also has an extra oxygen molecule, so any advantage there may be nullified, I don't really know. I've used both and I can't tell any different at less than long term periods.

 

[57chilicat]

Fingers are crossed for NN to have a sale! Does anyone know if the had a 4th of July sale last year?

 

[JustWondering1]

The headspace in your container needs to be as small as possible - but not too small. The reason is that the air trapped in the bottle will eventually react with the nicotine. If you use some inert gas like argon to displace the air, you can solve that problem. Also, VG will expand as it warms, so you want a bit of headspace so that your bottle doesn't burst or crack.

Personally, I don't see much advantage to using VG nic, unless you mix high VG. VG will get thicker at lower temps, yes, but it also has an extra oxygen molecule, so any advantage there may be nullified, I don't really know. I've used both and I can't tell any different at less than long term periods.

Thanks AJ. Now I get it. I'm thinking I may get some nic liters in VG and some in PG. That way I'll have more flexibility. I am sure that the PG will be easier to work with than the VG.

 

[JustWondering1]

If not storing in amber glass, I bet you could keep the light out if you wrap the bottles very carefully in foil. Foil will definitely keep light out, and whenever the freezer is opened, the light will come on. It might be worth doing, especially since it's cheap and easy.

 

[puffon]

(4) 125ml bottles fit great in a small flat rate USPS box.
Keeps light out, makes them stack-able, gives them some protection and the boxes are free.

 

[aikanae1]

Fingers are crossed for NN to have a sale! Does anyone know if the had a 4th of July sale last year?

That would be nice. I haven't seen a lot of sales from them in the past. I suspect demand is high right now.

Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

 

[JustWondering1]

That would be nice. I haven't seen a lot of sales from them in the past. I suspect demand is high right now.

Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

Yes. I'd say demand is extremely high. I feel so sorry for the nic vendors. Once the corrupt & heinous FDA has their way, they'll be limited wholesale sales. I keep hoping this won't happen, but I'm sure it will. I guess it's possible the regs could be reversed?

 

[Capt.shay]

Also, VG will expand as it warms, so you want a bit of headspace so that your bottle doesn't burst or crack.

Well, yes and no, not really. The VG can only expand back to the volume of the origional level so unless you are bottling it in a freezer and then letting it warm and expand in a tropical environment, it can not expand any more than the level you bottled it at and could not possibly burst the bottle.



.

 

[Rossum]

Well, yes and no, not really. The VG can only expand back to the volume of the origional level so unless you are bottling it in a freezer and then letting it warm and expand in a tropical environment, it can not expand any more than the level you bottled it at and could not possibly burst the bottle.

If you have zero headspace in the bottle when you fill & cap it at room temperature and the VG contracts at freezer temperatures, you will end up with some headspace when it's cold. That headspace will then be a pretty good vacuum, meaning there will be 14.7 psi of inward pressure on the bottle. I'm reasonably confident that smaller bottles will withstand that, but why stress them like that? Even a small amount of headspace when the bottles are filled and capped will buffer most of that pressure change.

 

[Bob Chill]

Headspace is pretty easy. I like the bubble in the bottle to be the size of a skittle. Never had a single bottle overflow when brining to temp and opening. Theres always o2 in the mix regardless of headspace so even argon purged still has o2.

Nic seems to have excellent freezer life without overthinking it. Simple poly seal cap and filling the bottle 1/3rd up the neck is pretty easy and idiot proof. Trust me, I was pretty much an idiot with my first rebottle job in 2013. Not an idiot in the sense of being a dummy but an idiot in the sense that I've never had to think about properly storing an important chemical properly before. Every bottle I break out is as good as new. Hard to believe it's been nearly 3 years already. Wow.

 

[Mowgli]

(4) 125ml bottles fit great in a small flat rate USPS box.
Keeps light out, makes them stack-able, gives them some protection and the boxes are free.

Also free USPS medium boxes hold fifteen 250ml bottles #justsaying

 

[Rossum]

Consider using plastic boxes instead. There are plenty of Tupperware style ones out there at reasonable prices. Then if a bottle does break or otherwise leaks, the nic is contained within the box rather than getting all over your freezer. Cardboard simply isn't much of a barrier to liquids.

 

[Kurt]

Personally, I don't see much advantage to using VG nic, unless you mix high VG. VG will get thicker at lower temps, yes, but it also has an extra oxygen molecule, so any advantage there may be nullified, I don't really know. I've used both and I can't tell any different at less than long term periods.

No offense, but you clearly don't know. This is not correct chemistry at all. Please don't make up chemistry if you don't understand it. Chemistry debates over real issues about storage details are hard enough. It is O2 that reacts with nic, not the "extra oxygen molecule" that VG has compared to PG. VG has another OH group in its molecule compared to PG, but this oxygen atom does not react with nic. This is not semantics, this is chemistry central to nicotine oxidation and storage.

A few mL headspace contains only enough O2 to oxidize a few mg of nic. Negligible and even if it all reacted you would not be able to detect a difference in a 100 mg/mL solution. And a few mL of headspace will protect against any expansion of the liquid.

I agree with Rossum that colored glass in a dark freezer is moot. And it is UV that catalyzes nic oxidation, not visible light, and O2 still has to be present anyway for any oxidation to occur.

Bob Chill is right: don't over-think nic storage. Well-sealed glass + a little headspace + freezer = done.

In other news, I finally tried a sample of RTS 100 mg/mL VG. Not invisible nic. It has its own taste, which I really like. Slightly toasty/tobacco notes which I have always gravitated to. If you don't want any taste from your nic, RTS may not be good for you. To my tastes, this is a really well-crafted product, very enjoyable with a mellow, non-edgy nic buzz. May get more with the 4th of July sale, but the regular price is very good. I really like this nic.

 

[AzPlumber]

In other news, I finally tried a sample of RTS 100 mg/mL VG. Not invisible nic. It has its own taste, which I really like. Slightly toasty/tobacco notes which I have always gravitated to. If you don't want any taste from your nic, RTS may not be good for you. To my tastes, this is a really well-crafted product, very enjoyable with a mellow, non-edgy nic buzz. May get more with the 4th of July sale, but the regular price is very good. I really like this nic.

I also enjoy the "tobacco" taste of some nic and partial to MFS for this reason. Would you say the tobacco notes in RTS are comparable to MFS?

 

[tiburonfirst]

In other news, I finally tried a sample of RTS 100 mg/mL VG. Not invisible nic. It has its own taste, which I really like. Slightly toasty/tobacco notes which I have always gravitated to.

I also enjoy the "tobacco" taste of some nic and partial to MFS for this reason. Would you say the tobacco notes in RTS are comparable to MFS?

i might have to go looking for the rts coupon code

 

[Cool_Breeze]

...
In other news, I finally tried a sample of RTS 100 mg/mL VG. Not invisible nic. It has its own taste, which I really like. Slightly toasty/tobacco notes which I have always gravitated to. If you don't want any taste from your nic, RTS may not be good for you. To my tastes, this is a really well-crafted product, very enjoyable with a mellow, non-edgy nic buzz. May get more with the 4th of July sale, but the regular price is very good. I really like this nic.

I've seem mention that some VG bases with nicotine have some distilled water added for workability. Kurt, do you have any comments on the viscosity of RTS 100 mg/mL VG?

 

[AJ Steele]

No offense, but you clearly don't know.

Yep, that's what I said.

 

[Capt.shay]

If you have zero headspace in the bottle when you fill & cap it at room temperature and the VG contracts at freezer temperatures, you will end up with some headspace when it's cold. That headspace will then be a pretty good vacuum, meaning there will be 14.7 psi of inward pressure on the bottle. I'm reasonably confident that smaller bottles will withstand that, but why stress them like that? Even a small amount of headspace when the bottles are filled and capped will buffer most of that pressure change.

I actually wasn't arguing against head space, I do it and if for no other reason than that it is hard to pour off a completely full bottle when it comes time to decant it. I was just saying that it can't crack or burst a bottle from expansion without some exceptional circumstances. As far as implosion, yea, I think we are pretty safe there.