Nope, not the elected anything, just an FYI.
Nicotine Comparisons
- Thread starter Cyrus Vap
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
Nope, not the elected anything, just an FYI.
Vapntime, I asked questions, because I had recently bought some of the V2 in 500ml bottles. I'm rather new to this storing nicotine thing and what they offered seemed like a good way to go for at least part of it. So, when I saw your post it alarmed me. Because if I had made a mistake, I wanted to know so that I would take the best next steps. Whether it was to break it down into smaller bottles immediately or maybe do that after I made the first pierce. Of course neither was my plan when I bought it. 
So, my questions to you was not doubting the authenticity of what you posted, it was only to help me plot my next steps. Please accept my apology if it seemed anything different than that.
I think we are all on the same side here and wish the best for everyone.
So, my questions to you was not doubting the authenticity of what you posted, it was only to help me plot my next steps. Please accept my apology if it seemed anything different than that.I think we are all on the same side here and wish the best for everyone.
Vapntime, I asked questions, because I had recently bought some of the V2 in 500ml bottles. I'm rather new to this storing nicotine thing and what they offered seemed like a good way to go for at least part of it. So, when I saw your post it alarmed me. Because if I had made a mistake, I wanted to know so that I would take the best next steps. Whether it was to break it down into smaller bottles immediately or maybe do that after I made the first pierce. Of course neither was my plan when I bought it.
I think we are all on the same side here and wish the best for everyone.
(Edited - not appropriate)
I'm sure the v2 will be fine, just use the syringe tip with the bottle upside down.
I alluded to the reason mine might have had issues that being it might have had differential pressures due to aircraft travel. But in saying that I'm not convinced its failsafe so if you have issues contact nude.
Last edited by a moderator:
Quoting Kurt Kistler the University Chemistry Professor:
"I think your freezer should be just fine at -18C. This is about 0 F, and cooler than my freezer (10F). I have only limited data from freezing a VG-nic juice with 20% water, from years ago, but it did not separate or have solid ice in it...it just got thicker. It was only one attempt at this, but it makes sense to me from a chemistry view: through cross H-bonds, the water solvates completely with the VG, and cannot recombine back into pure water with cold.
As for those that are obsessed with purging headspace air from the stored bottle with a gas like Ar, let's do a little calculation. Let's assume 4 mL of headspace in a bottle of nic. If O2 is 25% of the air (rough estimate) that is 1 mL of O2. We will ignore vapor pressure of VG or water. If we assume 1 atm pressure and 25 C (298K), we can use standard PV=nRT high school chemistry math, where n is moles, and R is 0.0821L-atm/mol-K. So 0.001L O2 is
0.001L x 1 atm/(0.0821L-atom/mol-K * 298K) = 4.08x10^-5 moles of O2.
If one mole of O2 reacts with one mole of nicotine (it is in fact a 1:1 molar ratio in the reaction), then 4.08x10^-5 moles of nicotine will react if all that O2 reacts. Molar mass of nicotine is 166.22 g/mole, so
4.08x10^-5 moles nic x 166.22g/mole x 1000 mg/g = 6.8 mg of nic oxidizing if ALL the O2 in 4 mL headspace reacts.
I think I may have overstated the importance of O2 from added water some years ago here. O2 solubility in water at room temp and 1 atm is about 8 mg/L (0.008g/L). Suppose we add 20% water to 100 mg VG-nic, and we are storing 50 mL of the mixed base in a glass bottle. mg of nic that will oxidize if all the O2 reacts from the added water (10 mL) will be
0.008 g O2/L * 0.010L * 1mole/32g * 1mole nic/1 mole O2 * 166.22 g/mol * 1000 mg/g = 0.4 mg nic oxidized if all the O2 in the water reacts with nic. Less than 1 mg.
O2 solubility in VG is about 2 mg/L. In our 50 mL bottle of VG-nic with 20% water, we have 40 mL of VG (about, there is nic too, but to make it simple). This will lead to oxidation of nic of:
0.002 g O2/L * 0.040L * 1mole/32g * 1mole nic/1 mole O2 * 166.22 g/mol * 1000 mg/g = 0.4 mg nic oxidized if all the O2 in the VG reacts. Same amount as from the 10 mL added water. O2 solubility in PG is about the same as in VG.
Thus, if no O2 gets into the VG-nic from outside, the intrinsic O2 present in the headspace, 20% water and VG will oxidize less than 8 mg of nic total in a 50 mL bottle with 4 mL headspace. Might be enough to give a very slight yellow, but most probably not enough to detect in a DIY e-liquid made from it. And even at room temp, this will take some time.
You cannot remove this intrinsic O2. But it is certainly not enough to be worried about even if it all reacts. Most plastics we use are fairly porous to O2 transport through it from the atmosphere, but while glass is virtually impervious to O2, the plastic caps are not, although they are better than typical dropper bottle plastic (LDPE). This is why even at room temperature, VG-nic in sealed glass bottles lasts a long time without significant coloration. But probably not years. So we cool the nic to slow any reaction from O2 invading through the cap to almost zero. Shrink wrap or electrical tape around the cap might help some, but maybe not much. I don't know, but I don't do this myself.
I store undiluted VG-nic mostly at 100 mg/mL for space reasons, and only in glass. For my VG-nics stored cold after 6.5 years there has been no change. I don't know why one batch of PG-nic I had years ago oxidized to deep yellow-orange after about a year, but to be honest it was not as pure as the nic we generally use today, and might have been oxidized somewhat upon getting it (2009 Totally Wicked Red Label). It was in a deep amber glass 30 mL dropper bottle (rubber surrounding) with child-proof cap that might not have been good at keeping O2 out. Rubber is not good at blocking O2 transport. Other purer PG-nic I have had in better sealed glass did fine for the couple of years I stored it. I haven't had PG-nic in my possession as long as my VG-nic, since I don't vape PG-nic. But others here that have stored pure PG-nic have had good results for multiple years in glass in the freezer.
Conclusion: no matter the DIY-nic you get, get it into well-sealed glass, give a bit of headspace for possible expansion (VG/PG expands with heat), put it in the freezer, and worry about it no more."
"I think your freezer should be just fine at -18C. This is about 0 F, and cooler than my freezer (10F). I have only limited data from freezing a VG-nic juice with 20% water, from years ago, but it did not separate or have solid ice in it...it just got thicker. It was only one attempt at this, but it makes sense to me from a chemistry view: through cross H-bonds, the water solvates completely with the VG, and cannot recombine back into pure water with cold.
As for those that are obsessed with purging headspace air from the stored bottle with a gas like Ar, let's do a little calculation. Let's assume 4 mL of headspace in a bottle of nic. If O2 is 25% of the air (rough estimate) that is 1 mL of O2. We will ignore vapor pressure of VG or water. If we assume 1 atm pressure and 25 C (298K), we can use standard PV=nRT high school chemistry math, where n is moles, and R is 0.0821L-atm/mol-K. So 0.001L O2 is
0.001L x 1 atm/(0.0821L-atom/mol-K * 298K) = 4.08x10^-5 moles of O2.
If one mole of O2 reacts with one mole of nicotine (it is in fact a 1:1 molar ratio in the reaction), then 4.08x10^-5 moles of nicotine will react if all that O2 reacts. Molar mass of nicotine is 166.22 g/mole, so
4.08x10^-5 moles nic x 166.22g/mole x 1000 mg/g = 6.8 mg of nic oxidizing if ALL the O2 in 4 mL headspace reacts.
I think I may have overstated the importance of O2 from added water some years ago here. O2 solubility in water at room temp and 1 atm is about 8 mg/L (0.008g/L). Suppose we add 20% water to 100 mg VG-nic, and we are storing 50 mL of the mixed base in a glass bottle. mg of nic that will oxidize if all the O2 reacts from the added water (10 mL) will be
0.008 g O2/L * 0.010L * 1mole/32g * 1mole nic/1 mole O2 * 166.22 g/mol * 1000 mg/g = 0.4 mg nic oxidized if all the O2 in the water reacts with nic. Less than 1 mg.
O2 solubility in VG is about 2 mg/L. In our 50 mL bottle of VG-nic with 20% water, we have 40 mL of VG (about, there is nic too, but to make it simple). This will lead to oxidation of nic of:
0.002 g O2/L * 0.040L * 1mole/32g * 1mole nic/1 mole O2 * 166.22 g/mol * 1000 mg/g = 0.4 mg nic oxidized if all the O2 in the VG reacts. Same amount as from the 10 mL added water. O2 solubility in PG is about the same as in VG.
Thus, if no O2 gets into the VG-nic from outside, the intrinsic O2 present in the headspace, 20% water and VG will oxidize less than 8 mg of nic total in a 50 mL bottle with 4 mL headspace. Might be enough to give a very slight yellow, but most probably not enough to detect in a DIY e-liquid made from it. And even at room temp, this will take some time.
You cannot remove this intrinsic O2. But it is certainly not enough to be worried about even if it all reacts. Most plastics we use are fairly porous to O2 transport through it from the atmosphere, but while glass is virtually impervious to O2, the plastic caps are not, although they are better than typical dropper bottle plastic (LDPE). This is why even at room temperature, VG-nic in sealed glass bottles lasts a long time without significant coloration. But probably not years. So we cool the nic to slow any reaction from O2 invading through the cap to almost zero. Shrink wrap or electrical tape around the cap might help some, but maybe not much. I don't know, but I don't do this myself.
I store undiluted VG-nic mostly at 100 mg/mL for space reasons, and only in glass. For my VG-nics stored cold after 6.5 years there has been no change. I don't know why one batch of PG-nic I had years ago oxidized to deep yellow-orange after about a year, but to be honest it was not as pure as the nic we generally use today, and might have been oxidized somewhat upon getting it (2009 Totally Wicked Red Label). It was in a deep amber glass 30 mL dropper bottle (rubber surrounding) with child-proof cap that might not have been good at keeping O2 out. Rubber is not good at blocking O2 transport. Other purer PG-nic I have had in better sealed glass did fine for the couple of years I stored it. I haven't had PG-nic in my possession as long as my VG-nic, since I don't vape PG-nic. But others here that have stored pure PG-nic have had good results for multiple years in glass in the freezer.
Conclusion: no matter the DIY-nic you get, get it into well-sealed glass, give a bit of headspace for possible expansion (VG/PG expands with heat), put it in the freezer, and worry about it no more."
Ok guys and gals, I started reading this and noticed it was back into 2012 when it first started. I read about the first 6 pages and then scanned the last couple pages. I have only had MFS nic for the last 5 years coming this November. I really liked the pepperiness of it as it seemed to add to the TH that got me to quit smoking for good. I have had plenty of people tell me that they didn't enjoy that taste of the nic as the pepper flavoring of the nic hindered the flavor of my juice. I was wondering if someone could point me in the right direction for a supplier that has a cleaner taste yet provide a TH as I vape 24 mg Unflavored about 90% of the time. I am also noticing the peppery taste in my flavored juice since the healing process of not smoking is coming in full effect on me. I do enjoy 70/30 with a TH @ 24mg/ml but would also like a cleaner taste @ 3-6 mg/ml. What are the current recommendations as I see this thread has still been active for such a long time. I am down to my last liter of 100mg from MFS and personally do not mind finishing it off for myself. Waste not, want not! I appreciate any input directly related to my question!
@Horselady154 , I've had zero issues with the v2 going back years. I always bought the 120ml bottles because for me they are easier to work with, handle, and store in my freezer. When they arrived, I inspected, labeled and in the freezer they went. Did NN ship a needle and syringes with your order for removing the nicotine? They did with my orders but my last order was a long time ago so I don't know what they're doing now. Don't know if this helps you or not but I just started a bottle of v2, my oldest, and it is clean.Vapntime, I asked questions, because I had recently bought some of the V2 in 500ml bottles. I'm rather new to this storing nicotine thing and what they offered seemed like a good way to go for at least part of it. So, when I saw your post it alarmed me. Because if I had made a mistake, I wanted to know so that I would take the best next steps. Whether it was to break it down into smaller bottles immediately or maybe do that after I made the first pierce. Of course neither was my plan when I bought it.
I think we are all on the same side here and wish the best for everyone.
I hope you managed to get things squared away.
Thanks @ShowMeTwice, that's good to know. Unfortunately, the order I made a couple of months ago, apparently broke on the way here and never made it. It was getting too hot, so I didn't have them re-ship. Still waiting for it to cool off. So, I really appreciate you telling me your personal experience with V2.@Horselady154 , I've had zero issues with the v2 going back years. I always bought the 120ml bottles because for me they are easier to work with, handle, and store in my freezer. When they arrived, I inspected, labeled and in the freezer they went. Did NN ship a needle and syringes with your order for removing the nicotine? They did with my orders but my last order was a long time ago so I don't know what they're doing now. Don't know if this helps you or not but I just started a bottle of v2, my oldest, and it is clean.
I hope you managed to get things squared away.
Any nic can be made "dirty". Just leave it at room temperature, or even warmer for a while. Ick.
You might want to try the TH nic from Vaperstek - doesn't taste like a dirty ash tray and yet, doesn't feel like you're just sucking air either.
@Ablonz Even the 'purer' nics will have a throat hit at 24mg/ml. Just get the best nic available which is CNT and/or Chemnovatic.
CNT is available from Liquid Nicotine Wholesalers.
Chemnovatic is available from Nicotine River.
Chemnovatic is also available at Vapers Tek, they have the throat 'hit' Chemnovatic nicotine as well which was mentioned above. Might be best to get a small bottle of each from there and see what you think.
CNT is available from Liquid Nicotine Wholesalers.
Chemnovatic is available from Nicotine River.
Chemnovatic is also available at Vapers Tek, they have the throat 'hit' Chemnovatic nicotine as well which was mentioned above. Might be best to get a small bottle of each from there and see what you think.
Excuse, please, my lurking has hit a wall. What are v1 and v2? Do we have a glossary for acronyms and other short-handed words?
Incidentally, I do 100% VG without diluting, except for flavoring, DIY, and recently allowed a new order to sit at room temp for several days. It's got the slightest yellowing, but no apparent smell or taste change. And the old stuff I had frozen for a year or so in the blue glass bottles stayed clear. I think that's all I can contribute to the current conversation.
EDIT: Forgot to say thank you and Hi Everyone!!!
Incidentally, I do 100% VG without diluting, except for flavoring, DIY, and recently allowed a new order to sit at room temp for several days. It's got the slightest yellowing, but no apparent smell or taste change. And the old stuff I had frozen for a year or so in the blue glass bottles stayed clear. I think that's all I can contribute to the current conversation.
EDIT: Forgot to say thank you and Hi Everyone!!!
Last edited:
CNT 100mg/pg base received from Liquid Barn two days ago, 9/25/19. Poured straight into 60ml bottles for longterm storage.
This one is HiLIQ nicotine 200mg/pg that I received exactly two years ago, 9/27/2017, freezer stored. Pulled this bottle out today for mixing and fridge storage:
Going through my stash, I noticed some RTS 100mg dated 2014. Perhaps I'll break one out in a month or two and see how it faired. Also noticed Vaperstek, NN, CXTC. I think I'm good on nic.
This one is HiLIQ nicotine 200mg/pg that I received exactly two years ago, 9/27/2017, freezer stored. Pulled this bottle out today for mixing and fridge storage:
Going through my stash, I noticed some RTS 100mg dated 2014. Perhaps I'll break one out in a month or two and see how it faired. Also noticed Vaperstek, NN, CXTC. I think I'm good on nic.
@chohan If I got that from nic from Liquid Barn, I would ask for another/complain etc. Does it vape cleanly? I have used Liquid Barn before and the nicotine was crystal clear and fresh. CNT nicotine is usually the clearest I have seen.
P.S. No comment on the Hiliq nic...
P.S. No comment on the Hiliq nic...
Vapntime, normally I probably would've complained but it taste fine at 12mg unflavored and considering it traveled from mid 90 temp Cali to 90 temp Carolina for a week, I just figure the heat had a slight effect. Only a 125ml test order anyways. I usually never order nic in the summer/hot season but whatever.
Btw, I notice LNW offers two different brands of nic apparently. They have the CNT 100mg at $220 per gallon but their house brand goes for around $160. The cheaper brand can also be purchased in 250mg. Any idea what brand that is? I emailed but received no response and only got voice mail the whole day that I tried to call.
cheers
Yea if it vapes fine it should be good. Ground shipping doesn't help that's a pain. I'm glad you noticed the CNT nic at LNW, I was under the impression they had changed all their nic to CNT. Sorry to everyone i gave bad advice too lol. LNW claim their house brand is better than USP standards so that really only leaves NicSelect or Chemnovatic. Hmm, might send them an email as well they were going to be my next order.
- Status
Similar threads
