Nicotine Comparisons

[billherbst]

What a great thread!

For a long time, I bought the cheapest nic liquid I could find. Usually during sales. VoidMist (now out of business) and Good Prophets were vendors from whom I bought numerous bottles of 35mg and 60mg nic liquid. With Good Prophets especially, $8 for a 120ml bottle of 35mg in PG or VG during sales is a great deal for people who can buy only in small quantities.

My frugality hasn't lessened yet. Now I buy all my nic from Wizard Labs in 100mg strength. Their "introductory" sale prices are hard to beat---significantly lower for 250 or 500ml bottles than for any of the other major sources discussed on the thread, and literally half the cost of some (only $30 for 100mg/250ml in PG or VG). This is not meant to be a recommendation, because I don't have (or claim) the sophistication about the various differences in nic liquids possessed by the primary posters on this thread. I offer this post merely as straight information, although many here probably know the information already.

One question: How does one obain the Wizard Labs "Ice" versions? I don't see them on the web site. Am I correct to presume that the Ice line is still in beta-test stage and that one has to either contact the vendor to request it or have an insider relationship? I'm about to order again and would love to try some.

Never mind. I just read the past month's posts in the big thread "Wizard Labs Nic Base Reviews" and now feel informed and up to speed. I'll contact John to ask for some Ice.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

Hello billherbst! Glad to have you!

My frugality hasn't lessened yet. Now I buy all my nic from Wizard Labs in 100mg strength. Their "introductory" sale prices are hard to beat---significantly lower for 250 or 500ml bottles than for any of the other major sources discussed on the thread, and literally half the cost of some (only $30 for 100mg/250ml in PG or VG).

Agreed! For great nic Wizard's prices are really amazing. Very straight forward, knowledgeable and humble in my opinion as well.

This is not meant to be a recommendation, because I don't have (or claim) the sophistication about the various differences in nic liquids possessed by the primary posters on this thread. I offer this post merely as straight information, although many here probably know the information already.

I'm pretty sure if the master of the RY4 round up were to run some comparisons, my head would be spinning just like it does when I go through the RY4 thread

Yes the Ice is still in beta, truly hope you get a sample, the nic is phenomenal!

 

[Cyrus Vap]

If anyone out there has tried the Platinum Ice/Titanium Ice from Europe, we'd love to hear your thoughts/comparisons. I've heard its phenomenal stuff from more than one seasoned ECF veteran DIYer.

I assume its extracted from tobacco like our nics (e.g. not synthetic) but I don't know, I'd love to learn more.

 

[mwa102464]

One comment, I'd love to see someone try to source Nic in the USA from a lab, freshly extracted Nic and get me your price for a liter of it. So farmed = In The USA,,,, Picked from that USA farm and taken to the Extraction processing facility = All USA,,,, Then fully Extracted with the full disclosure GCMS From and all American USA lab, showing place of origin with full disclosure from start to finished bottling. If you can get me this info, and this Nic, and especially at $46 for 250ml's then I would be a believer, until then I stick to saying that all Nic is extracted from China and that is the place of it's origination. Then what happens after this and what lab it may go to is another whole different story.

In fact, add up how much the labor would be to pay a farmer to grow enough tobacco to make a liter, start from the original seed or starter plant, fertilizer, watering, all labor cost to just grow the actual tobacco plant first, a farm laborer to pick that tobacco, then the farmer must hang it and cure it, then pull it down again, then load it to a truck, gas fuel, then deliver to lab plant for extraction, then the lab must do its work, then all the legalities GCMS, lab labor, Ins, overhead, then the bottling of it and cost of the bottle, add all this up for a finished fresh 100MG liter here in the USA and let me know what you think it would cost.

Or does it come delivered in a 55Gal drum from China then they do with it what they do, that's what I think happens anyways.

Now on to some Nic and are some of them possibly the same ? I think there is some vendors selling the same Nic but the titration process's all being different makes for an end user product of a different Nic even though it started as the same Nic. I do find the RTS the most consistent in color, looks, smell, taste and think there titraion process is better and its why I like this Nic most of all. Levy's Nic from Extreme is also darn good and always consistent ( and he's one helluva nice guy who will be upfront with you and honest ) Most all of the guys who sell it are nice guys , but they have different set ups and this effects your final product in different ways in my opinion.

Lastly but not least, like I said in the beginning of my post, go to Alibaba, or wherever you want, and see if you can source an all USA made Nic and get a sheet with its place of origin, let me know how ya made out with that, been there done it. It obviously doesn't mean however you cant buy a dam good Nic here in the USA,,you can,,, or you also cant get a dam good Nic from Europe like platinum Ice,,you can,,,, but where does it all start out and originate from ? to me its no secret anymore it all derives and originate from China, some use to also come from Belgium from my findings, but as of today I still haven't found an Nic that originated in the USA WITH PROOF of that Origin and a final GCMS showing all USA.

I also give kudos to any company who has full disclosure and nothing to hide, yet on the flip side I still like RTS Nic no matter where it comes from, catch 22 there huh, yup it sure is but I have my own thoughts on the whole process and where it all originates from and leave it at that. I hope some day in the near future though that all of them have to list certain things like place or origin, what Lab extraction was done at, lot#'s. and most of all a full GCMS which is important, this would separate the hucksters from the real dealers as well as make people held accountable for the products there producing and selling to all of us. We all saw what happen to another company a ways back when they produced, marketed, and sold 100MG yet it was what 250MG, and other higher then 100mg numbers, no names mentioned but it created a big enough scare and I for one surely wouldn't want that to happen to me. Bottom line is full disclosure is needed in this industry and if they dont self regulate themselves and get on this then someone else is coming into the game and going to be regulating it and you may not even be able to buy a bottle of Nic in the near future ( when this happens ), and I fear these guys selling now know this is coming and there only making all they can now in profits while the wild west of Nic sales continues. Times a coming ladies and Gents, So I hope you all have big enough freezers to hold down your forts, I know I do

Cyrus I think you know I have tried the platinum ice, it is of a super grade of Nic in high quality in my opinion only.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

Thanks mwa

Yes I know you've tried it, I have to bait you in here creatively some times lol

 

[Cyrus Vap]

Is your nic too fishy/alkaline/basic for you in taste and aroma?

The good old vinegar thread got me thinking, acetic acid seems to dull harsh notes, boost more subtle notes, and for some even "kill flavor."

To the extent that what we experience in nic is a consequence of its alkalinity, perhaps the acid could also neutralize things for us a bit

Take some of that high alkaline nic unflavored and try 2-3 drops of white vinegar/5ml see if it works for you. Been playing with this today, interesting stuff.

A bit of a slightly irrelevant and silly experiment, as this hinges upon one 1) enjoying unflavored 2) taking kindly to vinegar

but interesting nonetheless

 

[Jimi D.]

Is your nic too fishy/alkaline/basic for you in taste and aroma?

The good old vinegar thread got me thinking, acetic acid seems to dull harsh notes, boost more subtle notes, and for some even "kill flavor."

To the extent that what we experience in nic is a consequence of its alkalinity, perhaps the acid could also neutralize things for us a bit

Take some of that high alkaline nic unflavored and try 2-3 drops of white vinegar/5ml see if it works for you. Been playing with this today, interesting stuff.

A bit of a slightly irrelevant and silly experiment, as this hinges upon one 1) enjoying unflavored 2) taking kindly to vinegar

but interesting nonetheless

I'm surprised that you don't taste the vinegar, at 2-3 drops per 5ml. I added a few drops to a 60ml bottle of Black Fire once. After a week it tasted like Black Pickle! LOL Is the TH still there?

 

[Cyrus Vap]

Well when I thought of people that don't like vinegar guess who was #1 on my list lol

 

[chaos-7]

Going to Alibaba to find a U.S. made product makes no sense at all. I know for a fact that a lot of chem. and med labs keep their location from the public eye and for vary good reasons. Several labs have been destroyed or damaged by Animal rights terrorist in the last few years and everyone in the field of research of any kind is being vary tight lipped about what they do and where they do it.

 

[EasyT]

Thanks for a great post mwa102464 , but particularly for this...

One comment, I'd love to see someone try to source Nic in the USA from a lab, freshly extracted Nic and get me your price for a liter of it. So farmed = In The USA,,,, Picked from that USA farm and taken to the Extraction processing facility = All USA,,,, Then fully Extracted with the full disclosure GCMS From and all American USA lab, showing place of origin with full disclosure from start to finished bottling. If you can get me this info, and this Nic, and especially at $46 for 250ml's then I would be a believer, until then I stick to saying that all Nic is extracted from China and that is the place of it's origination. Then what happens after this and what lab it may go to is another whole different story.

In fact, add up how much the labor would be to pay a farmer to grow enough tobacco to make a liter, start from the original seed or starter plant, fertilizer, watering, all labor cost to just grow the actual tobacco plant first, a farm laborer to pick that tobacco, then the farmer must hang it and cure it, then pull it down again, then load it to a truck, gas fuel, then deliver to lab plant for extraction, then the lab must do its work, then all the legalities GCMS, lab labor, Ins, overhead, then the bottling of it and cost of the bottle, add all this up for a finished fresh 100MG liter here in the USA and let me know what you think it would cost.

Or does it come delivered in a 55Gal drum from China then they do with it what they do, that's what I think happens anyways.

As it really got me thinking. So off to Google i went with a few search parameters in mind. And i was blown away with the number of vendors whose juice offerings are made with 100% USA grown and sourced Nicotine. I suppose in and of itself i wouldn't give much thought to those types of claims... Except that i completely agree with your premise that the cost of such nicotine would be prohibitive. Much less when i see those vendors selling 30ml bottles at close to what it cost me to DYI.

Anyway, thanks again for a great write up that really got me thinking.

 

[Rocketman]

When you look at some of our favorite Nic distributors, RTS, WL, MFS and see that they also supply other smaller vendors with NIC, it going to hard to actually know where your nic came from, unless you buy from one of the bigger guys. Besides, what happens when it is re-bottled and handled over and over? The same goes for PG and VG, the biggest percentage of the juice we vape is the PG and/or VG diluent.

I try and buy as far UP the food chain as I can

 

[Cyrus Vap]

That's the way to do it!

 

[wolcen]

Hey CV, gonna start a thread like this on PG/VG as well perhaps?

I should probably do some research on that side of things myself - after all, it's a much more significant slice of the final product.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

I hadn't thought about it, but maybe

How to get smaller bottles of various sources is going to be a tricky thing though.

Not sure I want to end up with gallons of PG/VG that I don't like. Unlike nic that I don't like, I won't be able to use it most likely. Like I said in the post that Randy so graciously deleted because ...because...oh right, there was no because... nic that I don't care for will get used one way or another. For one, its easy enough to cover up its undesirable characteristics with menthol of flavor.

For a fact I know that I don't care for DOW chemical PG at all, its quite disgusting (essential depot tells me this is what they sell)

I can detect tiny inconsequential differences among Heritage, Humco, and Essential Depot VG (Can't recall the source atm).

Whatever VG/PG vaping zone rebottles I like quite a bit, haven't asked for a source yet.

Whatever VG/PG MFS rebottles I also like, but this is going on long term memory, so I dunno.

 

[EasyT]

Just an update Cyrus. I finally found some time to take the wrap off the ECX nic i received and give it a try. It seems every bit as clear from both the visual as well as the olfactory aspect as Extreme Vapiing's Nic. No idea if the source is the same, but just from the quality it wouldn't surprise me. It's really good stuff.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

I'm glad you like it EasyT! Its great stuff, at a great price. And I'll always be happy to send my money to ECX.

 

[Jimi D.]

I'm glad you like it EasyT! Its great stuff, at a great price. And I'll always be happy to send my money to ECX.

After my nicvape is gone, I'll order some. I'm waiting for the heatwave to dissipate as well.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

Yes, I'll be living out of my freezer supply for a few months for sure lol. Heat sucks!

 

[EasyT]

You guys are nuts! As someone who spends months up here in lake effect snow storm land i'm loving this weather! 101 today!

 

[Cyrus Vap]

I'd be entirely happy with fall and winter all year round...OK maybe a week or two of sun here or there, but no heat lol