Nicotine Comparisons

[Cyrus Vap]

Welcome sir, glad to have you

I agree with you 100% Jim, and I want disagreement and alternate points of view expressed fully in here.

I don't like RTS, you do, to me that's a great thing. Now we can talk about why, and maybe open each others buds up to something.

And we can do the same thing for every nic out there.


I don't like fruit flavors (except once in a while), but Jimi D. does. Yet we're bffs. And we still rap about flavors all day. And he teaches me a ton.

I like VZ black and mild, Jimi and Charlz don't. Again, we're all bffs, and they teach me a ton.

mwa loves RTS, I don't. Yet he allows me to jump down his throat everyday on skype with 1001 questions about my gear, and he teaches me a ton

And I'll repeat, I concede that the nic is great, its just not for me.

Not going to travel this path again, but I'll say it once that any 'defense' I'm manifested was in response to ad hominem attacks on my character and motivations, and attempt to turn this into a thread about a bad batch of nic that should have been 'RMAed" for a refund. Its nothing of the sort. Its a 7-way + comparison, that will remain ongoing. Salem was the one who first hipped me to RTS, and its because I respected her opinion that I went down that road in the first place.

And I agree 10,000% public bickering is simply bad for all of us, but there's one thing I absolutely don't tolerate, even at risk of getting banned, and that's words and motivations being put into my mouth and heart

I'd never say anything negative about anyone that said: "Interesting, I disagree. RTS is my favorite. Explain to me what you don't like about it?"

Case in point, Wolcen has no problem with RTS, and he says so. Again, we're on great terms, and he teaches me a ton.


I certainly hope you'll stay and contribute in any way you please

 

[Cyrus Vap]

Anyone tried xtreme vaping or ECX?

I'd like to hear your thoughts...

EDIT:

Been vaping the ECX at 33mg from the original batch on an IO6 for the past day or so, unbelievably clean. Like VG/PG with a punch in the throat, really love this stuff. Have to pull out the Ice and XTR again, but I'm too lazy. This is what happens when you're on break

 

[classwife]

Purpose and limitations:

I hope that this thread keeps going as a place to talk about and compare nicotines from various vendors with an eye on the subjective: The appearance, the aroma, the flavor, the throat hit, and how it interacts with flavors.

Objective considerations are a great thing to discuss as well, and I’d love to see that here as well. Unfortunately for myself I’m not a chemist, just a less than amateur taster who enjoys verbalizing vaping, so that’s what I’ll be doing for now.

I have no pretension to be doing anything scientific here, and hopefully no one reading or posting here should either. Haven’t come across any ‘scientific’ reviews personally, and don’t expect to anymore than I expect to see a square triangle one day.

This is about an incurably subjective experience, which hinges upon an individuals entire sensory and perceptual apparatus. This is not just about neurons, but also one’s feelings, impulses, thoughts, vocabulary, and personal way of translating non-verbal stimuli into words.

In essence, its just reviews. That’s it.

In a review, the only thing you can do “wrong” is be untruthful about what you sense and perceive, and fudge your overall gestalt of a product. Otherwise, it’s “right.”

I belabor this dead horse because it seems feelings get hurt because people misread intentions and pretentions. The goal is to have fun, bounce ideas/tastes off of each other, get hip and hip others to nicotines, their qualities, quantities, strengths and weaknesses. That’s why this is posted in the flavor reviews section. And its always relevant to consider price, consistency, vendor integrity and customer experience because the bottom line is, we’re all paying for a product.

And again, fun. At the end of the day, we enjoy this fishy tertiary amine, and that’s all there is to it.

The disruptions needs to stop happening in review threads.

Everyone has their own opinions/reviews/comparisons ...if you do not like someone's opinion...move on.

Simple as that...

They are review threads...not bash the OP threads.


I am moving this to E-Liquid Reviews from Flavor Reviews...as Nic isn't a "Flavoring"

 

[Cyrus Vap]

thank you classwife, please hang out and contribute your opinions

 

[Rocketman]

Cyrus,
any leads on the original source for your 7 different nics?
How many different nics did you actually compare?

And do those vendors still buy from the same source? Things change from time to time.

 

[wolcen]

Cyrus,
any leads on the original source for your 7 different nics?
How many different nics did you actually compare?

And do those vendors still buy from the same source? Things change from time to time.

Are you serious here? Not being sarcastic, but this biz seems too dang tight-lipped about such things. Perhaps you've been particularly lucky or something, but my bet is he'd get as many results here as I did trying to get any sort of documentation from a vendor in support their "USP" labeling: nothing. I did received a couple responses, but no documentation whatsoever.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

I'm not so sure vendors would be too keen on sharing Rocketman, at least not most of them

And even if they did, they'd probably ask it not be publicized I would guess

going on a hunch, I think there are at least two sets of clones of the 7, or maybe one set of triplets and one set of twins

 

[Jim Bob]

Happy to do so , and to be clear I was not "bashing" in any way, I just believe that most folks on here are good helpful folks and/or are here to learn/share with others as much as possible . I honestly did not mean for it to "come off" otherwise (and I apologize IF it did)

I like RTS as it's USA sourced in North Carolina and it's not that far from me so shipping is ultra fast. I've never had any "off tasting nicquid" from them . I would be very critical (as most would I believe) if I had .

To be fair, I have only gotten the PG nicotine (in varying strengths) so I have no comment (or clue) as to the VG version.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

I didn't take it as bashing sir

and I'm willing to bet if I tasted what you have, I'd not enjoy it, and if you tasted what I have, you would enjoy it. the subjectivity of taste buds is incurable! you should see what happens when I try to get my fiance' to enjoy bourbon LOL

 

[EasyT]

Anyone tried xtreme vaping or ECX?

I'd like to hear your thoughts...

I've been following this thread with great interest. First of all i would like to thank Cyrus Vap for all the work he's put forward on this particular subject. I would also like to thank everyone else that has weighed in, as the entire community benefits from these types of threads.

I don't post very often but since Cyrus Vap expressed interest in the thoughts of those of us that have tried xtreme vaping's nic i thought i would toss my hat in as well.

I've been DIYing to one degree or another for about a year and a half, And from looking at your nic list Cyrus i've tried 3 of the 7 and finally landed on xtreme vapings nic as my final stop.

The reasons for me are pretty simple. I have never received nic from xtreme vaping that wasn't as clear as water and had no discernible smell at all, not to metion the unassited TH( it has to be felt to be appreciated). I have 1 bottle of 36mg nic that is over a year old and it's just now starting to slightly yellow and still has no smell that i can detect. Although I think for me the most important factor in my nic choice and i'm very glad that it was part of your nic assesment. ( because i honestly thought it was in my head) was the "pepper" factor. The other 2 i've tried had a strong "pepper hit" and for me personally it interrupts the flavor profile of the juice too much for me to enjoy them.

And just for the record i vape tobaccos exclusively @ 18 watts. I have no idea if it's pertinent to this discussion, but there it is.

 

[Shilo]

OK

In the first place while "some" may be doing that, I do not believe for a second most are... I have not "chimed in" until now even though I have only used RTS nicotine - WHY? Because #1 = I like to buy USA nicotine when it's great #2 It IS great product IN MY Experience..........not saying you had a different one- honestly I do not have your tastebuds- and I have not tasted YOUR nic... I HAVE gone through a few ML of MY RTS nicotine -- LOL(all PG based BTW) and have NEVER (not once) to be "clear" I am NOT trying to imply that is not true- just myself (and others I believe) have not........quite simple and IMO instead of "taking the defensive" you should accept that reality- it works "both ways " In Other Words...

RTS has a great "following " her (myself included) that is a given- YOU may not like it (obviously) but I'm quite certain you Knew this "going in" - perhaps you should think about the fact YOUR feelings and ideas are not all "that matters" (even in your own threads) ... I HOPE I am coming off as intended (not harsh or degrading - but helpful- which IS my intent) . There are literally millions of us now who vape; no way can we all agree on any one thing/detail and this is "OK" (better really) and should be expected. perhaps (just maybe) we should ALL remember fighting among our own serves no useful purpose (especially in public)????

Do yourself (and everyone else who vapes) a favor and at lest reflect on this???

Lets not even get in the USA nic speech I've never seen proof that anyone who sells to vapers has USA 100% grown and 100% extracted nic because I'm pretty sure the current standard is its extracted elsewhere no matter where the nicotine plant grew and if it was all done here it would be four times the price and everyone would have/sell USA nicotine! I find it hard to believe one vendor got in like flynn with the powers that be and no other vendor could---- and when and if I am proved wrong I will say so. At this point, there is no way to prove that one way or the other(no I don't take a vendor's word especially one with an ill temperament) so lets keep the talk to the nic itself and not the claimed source as part of a justification of why its better.

I have tried many mentioned in this thread and there are some I feel are more peppery than others and only 1 I totally deplored and 2nd one got funky faster than I like but other than that there is no discernable difference in the taste my final product with 4 of the 7 I have tried.

Cyrus you haven't done anything wrong from what I can see on this or any thread--- thanks for your contributions!

 

[Jim Bob]

Maybe it's "just me" but to attempt to try to discredit a vendor registered here without any proof is "lame" to be polite. OTOH - IF- you have actual proof that is quite another matter, MANY I am positive would love to see something besides "your opinion" that RTS is not being honest about USA nicotine.

Without real solid convincing evidence, I submit that Randy at RTS is more aware of the truth of where his nicotine comes from; than anyone's "thoughts and opinions" who have never been near his business. But hey that is "just my hunch"

Also for some of us, since RTS states clearly they DO extract their nicotine in the US from only USA tobacco grown in North Carolina, many folks like to support USA farmers and workers when possible ; I have no issues with anyone who doesn't feel that way.

Yet another point , RTS contributed supplies to Brother Frankie's homeless vaping endeavor (that is not a "hunch" ) so that alone is worth my trusting them and doing business with them FWIW

 

[Shilo]

Maybe it's "just me" but to attempt to try to discredit a vendor registered here without any proof is "lame" to be polite. OTOH - IF- you have actual proof that is quite another matter, MANY I am positive would love to see something besides "your opinion" that RTS is not being honest about USA nicotine.

Without real solid convincing evidence, I submit that Randy at RTS is more aware of the truth of where his nicotine comes from; than anyone's "thoughts and opinions" who have never been near his business. But hey that is "just my hunch"

Also for some of us, since RTS states clearly they DO extract their nicotine in the US from only USA tobacco grown in North Carolina, many folks like to support USA farmers and workers when possible ; I have no issues with anyone who doesn't feel that way.

Yet another point , RTS contributed supplies to Brother Frankie's homeless vaping endeavor (that is not a "hunch" ) so that alone is worth my trusting them and doing business with them FWIW

Jim Bob I used no vendors name you did in your post. Lets leave it at that-- there are vendor fanboy threads for such professions of admiration if we aren't allowed to disagree with your opinions--- this is a reviews thread.

 

[Jim Bob]

You can't be serious???
Sure names are used, "who " used them is of no relevance at all......I'm not clearly biased against that ECF Registered supplier/ vendor - nor is it me who is making claims of false advertising, and showing no clear evidence to back it up with... to mention fact does not make one a "fanboy" ; I happen to be quite happy with them and their nicotine- Yes this IS a nicotine review thread- so making "false advertising claims" without any evidence does not belong...opinions on the nicotine (pro or con) would belong which means "even fanboy reviews" belong... I Am quite curious why it matters so much to you that many of us like the product(s) BTW there is [also]a forum for negative reviews of suppliers FWIW

IF you'd like to "leave it at facts" that is fine by me...

 

[Cyrus Vap]

welcome Easy T, pleasure to have you join the conversation

I would also like to thank everyone else that has weighed in, as the entire community benefits from these types of threads.

Yes!

I've been DIYing to one degree or another for about a year and a half, And from looking at your nic list Cyrus i've tried 3 of the 7 and finally landed on xtreme vapings nic as my final stop.

Not surprising to me in the least, Levy's nic is a beast

Although I think for me the most important factor in my nic choice and i'm very glad that it was part of your nic assesment. ( because i honestly thought it was in my head) was the "pepper" factor. The other 2 i've tried had a strong "pepper hit" and for me personally it interrupts the flavor profile of the juice too much for me to enjoy them.

Thank you so much for sharing that, I feel slightly less insane now At least the two of us seem to be of the opinion that prominent TH *without* pepper is a real possibility

And just for the record i vape tobaccos exclusively @ 18 watts. I have no idea if it's pertinent to this discussion, but there it is.

18 watts! I think it is relevant, very much so.

Thank you so much for the post, its one of my favorites in this thread, if not my favorite.

I'm curious what the other 2 nics you've tried are, assuming you don't mind sharing?

I have to admit, I've been vaping quite a bit of XTR, WLI and ECX for the past few days and I'm still having a bear of a time teasing apart any difference between the three of them.

I'd be very curious to see what an XTR lover would think about ECX or WLI.

I believe when Wizard releases the ice its going to be a monster and make a big impression on the market.

And I think that ECX nic is a bit of an underdog at the moment, simply because its relatively new, but as more people try it and the word gets out its likewise going to become a monster as well!

 

[Cyrus Vap]

I have tried many mentioned in this thread and there are some I feel are more peppery than others and only 1 I totally deplored and 2nd one got funky faster than I like but other than that there is no discernable difference in the taste my final product with 4 of the 7 I have tried.

thank you for joining shilo

Love to hear more about those 4 nics! So long as you feel comfortable sharing their names of course.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

I think its just proof that Shilo wants, and that we all want. I don't think its an issue of discrediting.

And this applies across the board. I'd like to see COA on ALL the nics on this table. (Kudos to those that have it and display it)

I'd like to have details on the cleanliness and 'hygiene' for lack of a better term, of all titrating and bottling procedures.

And if a nic is all USA, I likewise want to see the proof.



Allow me to politely say, that I *really* don't want this to trail off into a discussion about

RTS says so, and you doubt them, so the burden of proof is on you

vs.

other way around

vs.

USA

vs.

China

These discussions tend to go nowhere, because it boils down to a simple disagreement on premises: "Where does the burden of proof rest?"

Things get politically, even racially charged, and it just spirals out of control

If the vaping community 'fought with the mighty dollar' I'd bet we'd have COAs and all the 'proofs' we desire in NO time. But I'm not sociopolitically inclined, so I won't be going there.

And FWIW this is a nic review thread, like Shilo said

 

[Cyrus Vap]

Some argue that 'TH' and "pepper" really just reflect levels of impurity in nicotine solutions

This may have some truth to it, and in fact it maybe entirely true. But I don't agree at the moment. Nic is actually pretty noxious stuff, and if the naso-oro-pharyngeal mucosa didn't react with a bit of a 'gag,' I'd be shocked

I've been operating under the assumption, a guess really, that throat hit and pepper actually amount to mucosal irritation in the form of chemoreceptor activation. Quick google scholar search turned up this:

We come to associate the irritation with the pharmacodynamic effects of nicotine, which become palpable shortly thereafter, and voila, we come to enjoy that irritation, e.g. TH

Topical application of nicotine, as used in nicotine replacement therapies, causes irritation of the mucosa and skin. This reaction has been attributed to activation of nicotinic acetylcholine receptors (nAChRs) in chemosensory neurons. In contrast with this view, we found that the chemosensory cation channel transient receptor potential A1 (TRPA1) is crucially involved in nicotine-induced irritation. We found that micromolar concentrations of nicotine activated heterologously expressed mouse and human TRPA1. Nicotine acted in a membrane-delimited manner, stabilizing the open state(s) and destabilizing the closed state(s) of the channel. In the presence of the general nAChR blocker hexamethonium, nociceptive neurons showed nicotine-induced responses that were strongly reduced in TRPA1-deficient mice. Finally, TRPA1 mediated the mouse airway constriction reflex to nasal instillation of nicotine. The identification of TRPA1 as a nicotine target suggests that existing models of nicotine-induced irritation should be revised and may facilitate the development of smoking cessation therapies with less adverse effects.

Nature Neuroscience 12, 1293 - 1299 (2009)
Published online: 13 September 2009 | doi:10.1038/nn.2379

accessed on 7/27/12 http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v12/n10/full/nn.2379.html

I'll keep searching, but of course its not good form or legal to post more than abstracts or whatever is openly displayed on the source website

 

[EasyT]

I don't mind at all. I just wasn't sure what the proper protocol was concerning the subject

I have used both MFS and RTS. The MFS in all honestly a very short lived experiment. Which brings us quickly back to the "pepper" aspect of particular nic. I found MFS to have what was in mind of my palette a very strong pepper to it. One bottle of juice mixed and dumped along with the MFS nic. I didn't feel there was really any reason to revisit it.

The RTS i have a bit more experience with having used it on and off for close to 2 months mixing various batches. Initially i didn't really have any visual or olfactory issues with the nic and it seemed pretty good. Except , and it's a big expect. There was little to no TH. It also began to change in color and have a noticeable odor after a fairly short amount of time.

I always mix my first batches of a new nic in 100% VG. It makes it easier for me personally to sorta gage what i'm working with. That being said, In mind it's impossible to not compare both of these with what Xtreme Vaping delivers. Excellent TH even in 100% Vg @ 18mg. And as i stated in my previous post it's as clear as water and no smell. That i can discern anyway. I actually just grabbed the old bottle i have and it still hasn't developed much of an odor at all.

BTW Cyrus i have an ECX order that should be here tomorrow that includes their Nic. So i'll def let you know how it sits me as soon as i get a batch made up.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

No surprise here on that MFS experience. For whatever reason, I do enjoy it, and happen to have quite a bit of it in the freezer, so I will use it. The way I handle it is basically either 1) low nic mixes so I can't notice it, 2) high nic mixes where I want the burn. But can totally understand if someone doesn't want that wallop of a pepper bite, its NOT the right nic for them!

The RTS i have a bit more experience with having used it on and off for close to 2 months mixing various batches. Initially i didn't really have any visual or olfactory issues with the nic and it seemed pretty good. Except , and it's a big expect. There was little to no TH. It also began to change in color and have a noticeable odor after a fairly short amount of time.

I think we're 100% on the same page here, exactly my experience.

BTW Cyrus i have an ECX order that should be here tomorrow that includes their Nic. So i'll def let you know how it sits me as soon as i get a batch made up.

Very excited to hear your results. At the moment I have ECX, XTR and WLI in a class all of their own for being full on with the TH, zero pepper and totally clear/inoffensive in the odor and taste department. I think there *maybe* some subtle and inconsequential differences, but then I'm really unsure I'm literally waffling on this a bit every time I try them. So I'm eager to see how other people that favor 1 of the 3 feel about the other 2.

Thank you again and welcome EasyT