Nicotine Comparisons

[Cyrus Vap]

I really think for anyone on the fence VZ is worth a shot. I have some from the summer that is pretty yellow to the eye, but mixed down at 20mg its clear and just as I found it to be in my review earlier in the thread. Only reason I haven't ordered more from there is I'm out of glass and they ship in plastic. I'm not aware of any purity data but then again I never asked for it...

 

[Jimi D.]

And when VZ sells out, there is always Tom's Vapor ! hahahahahahahahahaha !

 

[r77r7r]

I've used Vaporbreak and Renu when I first started, good stuff usually. Lol, at Renu it's called "tasteless".

I've never bought 100mg or even bulk. I've always used pre-mixed, so sometimes that makes me go to certain places.
I've yet to find a place where I can get pre-mixed, and grab some boges and an ego tho.

 

[Kurt]

thank you for the birthday wishes all

Kurt, I'm pretty pumped that those are YOUR titration curves! That's awesome!

Thanks, Cy! They are a PITA to do right, especially the standardization steps. The problem can be if there are other alkaloids in the nic, since they are all amines and will contribute to the overall nicotine "amount". Also, I can't do flavored liquids. I titrated some heavily flavored liquids for someone, and it looked like the flavor had already titrated about 30% of the nic. Curves looked like they started somewhere between normal 0 point and the 1/2 equivalence point. There are other methods out there that are better, like GC-FID. But at the time those were done for BE, they were the ONLY nic level tests posted by any vendor, as far as I know.

 

[B2L]

Cyrus, happy late birthday. Just stopping in to say I got a bottle of WL Ice after reading this thread. I have been playing with it lately and think I have found the one, thanks! I am a flavor guy and the Ice really allows the flavors to shine, they seem bright and crisp when compared to a mix in the RTS nic I have been using. The throat hit is there, not peppery at all but a nice strong thump in the back of the throat. I couldn't be happier with it and hope to be able to get more soon. Thanks to Cyrus and all who posted their thoughts and findings here.

 

[Stoneface]

Thanks for this amazing thread, a long long read, but totally worth it. I have DIY supplies on order, and this information has been invaluable.

 

[wolcen]

Judgment Affirmed very generously sent me some RTS 100mg in PG to try out (enough for extra-extra-extensive testing!). Until now, I haven't had RTS since rather early last year (ordered in late 2011). I've been vaping my backup stash of yellowed nic [formerly reserved for bug-killing duty ] for weeks. Needless to say, I'm very grateful to have this. I'm also thankful to have ECF as the primary place I find my online community; I've come to know a number of really great people here!

Sentimentality aside...I'm still putting this through it's paces, and I have ordered some Wizard's Ice and really look forward to head-to-head comparison, but I can't help but to start commenting on this already. Unfortunately, I could only get 60mg Ice as the 100mg sold out in just a couple hours.

Off the bat, I have to say that either something has changed dramatically when the "X" lots started production (lots produced since the procedure changed in Nov after RTS themselves caught a bad batch), or I just had a 'bad' bottle previously. This is very different than what I had before.

The RTS 60mg in VG (<- note the different base) I had previously, I could easily smell. Not a bad smell (to me anyway), but an uncharacteristic smell, different from any other nic I've had since. This on the other hand is a serious challenge to smell. From a small mouth bottle, I can only barely detect an odor after swirling it around and reopening if I really make an effort (Safety disclaimer: please don't try this at home. Seriously, warm nic in particular can put out some serious vapor that will put a hurtin' on your nose and eyes and both the fumes and getting nic this strong on your skin is dangerous). It is cool in the house this time of year, but I am shocked by the difference. The smell, when I can pick it out, is more like what I've come to find a characteristic odor for nicotine.

I don't want to say a whole lot more without having Ice and the PG/VG that I know back around. I want to confirm the differences, and more often similarities, that I think I'm getting. So far I'm surprised to not have noticed anyone mentioning an improvement or change in RTS nic. Perhaps I did get an atypical bottle after all?

I am an ardent supporter of Wizard Labs for both their products and service, but I have to admit that when the Wizard's Ice arrives on my doorstep, I think it's got a real showdown waiting for it. If you find any of this interesting, you all can thank J.A. as well for sending this to me - you'd never have heard this from me otherwise

 

[JUDGMENT AFFIRMED]

Thanks wolcen

 

[Krazykc]

okokok so I've been reading this thread and I am completely overwhelmed with what I should buy as the first 3/4ths of this thread is a bit old. I am looking to bulk up on nic and I don't really know where I should buy it from, currently looking at MFS WL and RTS I like a good throat hit and don't want to bulk up on RTS and be dissapointed

Any pointers for me?

 

[Shilo]

okokok so I've been reading this thread and I am completely overwhelmed with what I should buy as the first 3/4ths of this thread is a bit old. I am looking to bulk up on nic and I don't really know where I should buy it from, currently looking at MFS WL and RTS I like a good throat hit and don't want to bulk up on RTS and be dissapointed

Any pointers for me?

If you like a good throat hit I am sure you would be pleased with RTS. You can use FIRSTORDER to get 20 percent off one time deal too. I think you have to create an account there first. You really can't go wrong with anything mentioned in this thread---although its evolved its all good info.

 

[r77r7r]

I've tried many, but only Wizard's Regular made me turn the voltage on my battery down. It hits quite good and is still clean and pure.Without being Peppery.

 

[JUDGMENT AFFIRMED]

Why? They have probably already changed their source, or bought or extracted a new batch.
If I bought nic from a vendor last year, or 2 years ago, could I buy from them again and expect the same results?

I doubt it.

If you like a good throat hit I am sure you would be pleased with RTS. You can use FIRSTORDER to get 20 percent off one time deal too. I think you have to create an account there first. You really can't go wrong with anything mentioned in this thread---although its evolved its all good info.

I think that Krazykc and Rocketman have good points. Hope wolcen sees this and comment on the TH.

 

[Shilo]

I think that Krazykc and Rocketman have good points. Hope wolcen sees this and comment on the TH.

Huh? So what are you saying RTS changed so much it no longer has a peppery bite or TH? If you disagree with me just say so---cryptic messages aren't necessary...lol

 

[JUDGMENT AFFIRMED]

Huh? So what are you saying RTS changed so much it no longer has a peppery bite or TH? If you disagree with me just say so---cryptic messages aren't necessary...lol

Sorry Shilo, wasn't meant to be cryptic. I actually don't have the experiance to say much yet and would prefer wolcen to say first. I am taking his advice and not rushing, but I was rushed when I posted
I will say that my first nic in july from RTS in 100mg/ml, and only 120ml, was tinted a pale yellow. After using that up and switching to Wizard reg., I did notice a lack of TH on the Wizard compared to the RTS. I have been using that Wizard reg. till now. I have been since Sunday using two Vivi mini's , that i tested all day Sunday with nothing but PG/VG to see if they are working the same. So far I have the RTS nic from 12-28-12 in one Vivi and PG/VG in the other. I will put the Wizard reg. in the other Vivi to compare with the RTS, but as of now, Im wishing for more of something and not getting it. Maybe I like yellow
If you had current RTS, Im sure you could say something better than me. As of now, Bosco gave some more up to date reviews and wolcen will be, and im taking my time.
I think the best advice for Krazykc or anyone, buy small and try first. Love you Shilo

 

[r77r7r]

Sorry Shilo, wasn't meant to be cryptic. I actually don't have the experiance to say much yet and would prefer wolcen to say first. I am taking his advice and not rushing, but I was rushed when I posted
I will say that my first nic in july from RTS in 100mg/ml, and only 120ml, was tinted a pale yellow. After using that up and switching to Wizard reg., I did notice a lack of TH on the Wizard compared to the RTS. I have been using that Wizard reg. till now. I have been since Sunday using two Vivi mini's , that i tested all day Sunday with nothing but PG/VG to see if they are working the same. So far I have the RTS nic from 12-28-12 in one Vivi and PG/VG in the other. I will put the Wizard reg. in the other Vivi to compare with the RTS, but as of now, Im wishing for more of something and not getting it. Maybe I like yellow
If you had current RTS, Im sure you could say something better than me. As of now, Bosco gave some more up to date reviews and wolcen will be, and im taking my time.
I think the best advice for Krazykc or anyone, buy small and try first. Love you Shilo

JA- if you're saying here that you like the "old" RTS nic, maybe try MFS or CCV? They were all the same to me.

Or maybe put some Capsium in it? Lol, maybe you like it aged like good liquor- uncap it and sit it on a windowsill for a day.

 

[JUDGMENT AFFIRMED]

JA- if you're saying here that you like the "old" RTS nic, maybe try MFS or CCV? They were all the same to me.

Or maybe put some Capsium in it? Lol, maybe you like it aged like good liquor- uncap it and sit it on a windowsill for a day.

Thanks r77r7r,
Good idea, i was thinking let it "age" also. When im done with this experiment, thats what i plan on doing. I will probably try many different nics, but for now i still have over 1000ml of RTS and Wizard

 

[JUDGMENT AFFIRMED]

If I may, allow me to add that I am 56 and have smoked for 40 years, nearly 2 pad in the later years. That said, I know my taste and smell is not equal to someone younger. That, plus being a Boilermaker/welder doesn't help either.
But, since I have more current nic, and feel we all need more current impressions of that nic, maybe anything I say might be helpful to some.
Let me also add that I precleaned these two Vision Vivi nova minis and am using the 2.4 ohm heads with standard volt[3.3} Joyetech batteries. I used another Vivi mini for 3 months prior to this and felt that would be a good choice for this test. Also, I am using a 80%PG and 20% VG mix because thats what I use the most.
The RTS nic that I currently have in one Vivi mini was bought 12-25-12 and and recieved 12-28-12. It was rebottled and put in freezer.
The PG is from Tractor supply[USP] and the VG is from Essiential Depot. I actually just started using both after getting my first PG/VG from Amazon[Froggie ]
Starting day 5, PG/VG in one mini- to me, air with some sweet.
Starting day 5, RTS nic ,80/20 in other mini - to me, the TH is very minor, and I cant yet use any word other than air.


Also, forgot to mention, I increased the nic level to 25mg in this test from my normal 20mg. All the nic I have bought has been in 100mg/ml.

Edit again; After reading the post from wolcen concerning TH
V x V / ohms = 4.5 watts
That may be why I'm not getting much, plus I use menthol in mostly everything.

 

[Faylool]

My goal is to not be nic dependent for throat hit. In fact the. Throat hit from nicotine tends to do the sore throat thing. I've been lowering nic since it gets me wired and agitated too often. Weird since smoking was for calming down. Whatever, i get my WTAs from a few places plus another reason to happily lower nicotine since i do reslly enjoy the vaping, just not solo nicotine anymore. So maybe nicotine comparisons isn't exactly where I should revisit but I will and why I'm posting to save to my threads

 

[wolcen]

Hi all - just popping to say I've had a rough week and haven't forgot about you all (quite the opposite - I miss coming over here). Been a little tough to keep my chin up, but I'm alive. I've been really hoping to do testing, mailing things out, etc, but just haven't had time to myself to do anything. On top of that I wasn't feeling very well for a number of days - just blah. The little one threw up one morning (Wed I think it was) and he seems fine now also. I dunno...weird.

I was hoping to be able to play a little this weekend, but I'm on my own with the kiddo and there's that nagging issue of not yet having been able to build and deploy two system upgrades for a customer that starts training on said system Monday. Clearly things don't bode well for my free time over the short-term.

In any case, I have been vaping some of the RTS throughout the week and I can share a little bit more. One caveat: Randy said it could have been X or Y lot at the time this nic was received - as we're not sure which it is, there's an asterisk on the testing in terms of saying anything about a change in production process. Clearly however, this is not the nic I received quite a while ago and I've promised some to Cyrus Vap also. Hopefully I finally get that to him before he moves.

I made two mixes with lower than my normal nic (25% lower: 15mg rather than 20mg). I went with a lower amount because when I first received the nic I thought it wasn't making me feel well @ 25mg. I'm not sure what the story is there [again, little one was sick and I wasn't outright nauseous or anything, but I wasn't 100% either] but this nic does seem to have more kick than expected. Returning to the small batch of 25mg I had mixed, after being sure I was feeling fine, I did get a headache pretty quick with it. I don't think this is typical for RTS, but I gotta say something about that.

TH seems good to me - not too weak/not overbearing. I like this nic through the nose too - some nic I can't stand in my nose (way too much burn).

The flavoring I put in the two 15mgs: one 10ml was 10 drops MLB + 2 drops TA from ECX's Tobacco Express line; The other was an experiment with 2 parts TFA Cranberry, 1 Pumpkin Spice, and 1 of either Graham Cracker or Gingerbread...gotta find that (I do know there was total only 5% flavoring...and it needs a little more cranberry ). In any case, in my stronger-tasting nic (old stuff from Good Prophets), the taste masks flavorings and after a few days it's very noticeable - even at low mgs. This nic seems to be playing nicely with pretty minimal flavoring in it so far: they are pretty darn clear and tasty flavors coming through. I think I'm getting only the very slightest of a bitter sort of overtone coming from the nic. I will of course revisit this at the next mix-fest when I can tell which flavor is from where given much better context.

I'll report back when I finally do titrations and mix up the WL and RTS unflavored so I can start actual comparisons. Hopefully this week. Real life...sheesh!

 

[dmall]

And THAT is the $64,000 question! I do not know. I've asked many manufacturers, and they do not know either. There must be a chemical basis of some kind. The other thing is that quantitatively measuring the amount of some compound, say one of the nic-oxides, means making a standard of it to compare to. Without a standard, you cannot say other than there is trace amounts...of SOMETHING. So even GC-MS is very limited in giving full info about a particular nicotine sample.

There is much we do not know.

Maybe it has to do with terroir, type of tobacco, etc. Just like the same grape grown in a different climate can have a different nose, complexity, and taste. Probably all of these producers continue to source their tobacco's from the same growers they are able to maintain the same flavor profile over time.