No matter how much I vape, I still want to smoke analogs (and i still do smoke) Havent quit yet, who's in this category?

[JuniorNA]

OK so after buying maverick non menthols which are disgusting by the way. Ive found it helped a lot and i'm not looking forward to smoking the analog but I do sometimes out of sheer necessity. What I did find is that I'm gaping at 24mg all day. I'm not just vaping when it's analog time and taking ten drags and putting it down. I'm vaping all day. Probably one or two vapes every 5 minutes. I guess it's one step at a time. I tried RY4. Strawberry, apple and didn't like any of them. I went back to halo newpure and menthol ice. It's the smoothest tasting so far

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[Jimbo52]

I smoked menthol analogs (PAD) for more than 40 years and it wasn't until I started vaping a 510 using 36mg. juice that I gave up tobacco altogether. Smoking cigarettes is a 2 part addiction. #1 is the Nicotine; but #2 is the psychological addiction of something in your hand, something to puff on, seeing the smoke on exhale. I was lucky that 36mg juice satisfied #1 and a 510 with an automatic battery satisfied #2.

You may want to experiment with DIY e-juice if 36mg. doesn't cut it! I bought some 48mg. NIC juice from www.ivape.net - Personal Vaporizers, Electronic Cigarettes, E-Cigarettes, and Accessories and added it to Halo's Menthol Ice (0mg.) at one point. You will eventually find what works, IF you want to switch from analogs!!

 

[DVap]

Smoking cigarettes is a 2 part addiction. #1 is the Nicotine; but #2 is the psychological addiction of something in your hand, something to puff on, seeing the smoke on exhale. I was lucky that 36mg juice satisfied #1 and a 510 with an automatic battery satisfied #2.

Hi Jimbo,

You're correct, but only to a degree. It is a two-part addiction, with one part being the tactile experience of smoking. The other part is not nicotine, it is tobacco.

I'm always a bit disappointed that despite all that's been learned and convincingly demonstrated here (gory details are in my blog with summaries and links to source threads), the basic assumption of cigarette addiction is still simply wrong. Not only is the assumption here in the forum wrong, the assumption in the medical community is wrong. I blame it on the medical community, after all, they're supposed to be the smart ones, right?

Here's the single most egregious piece of misinformation that is passed down and accepted as fact:

Nicotine is the addictive component of tobacco.

There is truth to this statement, but absent the WHOLE TRUTH, the statement is incomplete at best and deceptive at worst.

The whole truth is that tobacco contains a complex mixture of a class of compounds known as alkaloids, of which nicotine is simply one of many. In addition, these alkaloids are psychoactive, that is to say they affect our mental function. Nicotine is simply the one alkaloid of many in tobacco that is present in the greatest concentration (perhaps 90 - 95% of the alkaloid profile).

So what about that other 5 - 10%? Doesn't seem like much, does it? Consider water. If you bought bottled water that was guaranteed to contain 90 - 95% water, would you mind? Would the other 5 - 10% make a difference to how your body responded to drinking a gallon? If that other 5 - 10% was alcohol, you'd be drunk.

The point is simply this, cigarette addiction is not about nicotine, it's about nicotine PLUS EVERY OTHER SUBSTANCE THAT WE GET FROM SMOKING THAT HAS ADDICTIVE POTENTIAL.. And it's about synergy, the principle that we've all heard that states that "The whole is greater than the sum of the parts".

E-liquid contains nicotine, tobacco contains TOBACCO.

When you understand this, you'll understand why those degenerates over in the smokeless tobacco forum are the happiest boatload of .......s around these parts.

 

[JuniorNA]

Honestly this might the most informative post in the entire thread. A lot of people are under the assumption that nicotine in liquid form will satisfy their addiction to tobacco analogs... and you have explained perfectly why that is not true. You have explained the part that every one is trying to figure out... which is "why do I still Crave cigs? " out of 4,000 chemicals in analogs its a safe bet that there are other addictive additives in there. So for some... that are mentally strong or otherwise, it's easy to just vape. Others like me who are having a hard time might be addicted to other additives and might not even know it. Thats why it's a gradual process and the body needs to adjust and everyone is different and progresses at their own pace... good post

Hi Jimbo,

You're correct, but only to a degree. It is a two-part addiction, with one part being the tactile experience of smoking. The other part is not nicotine, it is tobacco.

I'm always a bit disappointed that despite all that's been learned and convincingly demonstrated here (gory details are in my blog with summaries and links to source threads), the basic assumption of cigarette addiction is still simply wrong. Not only is the assumption here in the forum wrong, the assumption in the medical community is wrong. I blame it on the medical community, after all, they're supposed to be the smart ones, right?

Here's the single most egregious piece of misinformation that is passed down and accepted as fact:

Nicotine is the addictive component of tobacco.

There is truth to this statement, but absent the WHOLE TRUTH, the statement is incomplete at best and deceptive at worst.

The whole truth is that tobacco contains a complex mixture of a class of compounds known as alkaloids, of which nicotine is simply one of many. In addition, these alkaloids are psychoactive, that is to say they affect our mental function. Nicotine is simply the one alkaloid of many in tobacco that is present in the greatest concentration (perhaps 90 - 95% of the alkaloid profile).

So what about that other 5 - 10%? Doesn't seem like much, does it? Consider water. If you bought bottled water that was guaranteed to contain 90 - 95% water, would you mind? Would the other 5 - 10% make a difference to how your body responded to drinking a gallon? If that other 5 - 10% was alcohol, you'd be drunk.

The point is simply this, cigarette addiction is not about nicotine, it's about nicotine PLUS EVERY OTHER SUBSTANCE THAT WE GET FROM SMOKING THAT HAS ADDICTIVE POTENTIAL.. And it's about synergy, the principle that we've all heard that states that "The whole is greater than the sum of the parts".

E-liquid contains nicotine, tobacco contains TOBACCO.

When you understand this, you'll understand why those degenerates over in the smokeless tobacco forum are the happiest boatload of .......s around these parts.

Sent from my HTC Incredible with TapATalk

 

[Stubby]

Honestly this might the most informative post in the entire thread. A lot of people are under the assumption that nicotine in liquid form will satisfy their addiction to tobacco analogs... and you have explained perfectly why that is not true. You have explained the part that every one is trying to figure out... which is "why do I still Crave cigs? " out of 4,000 chemicals in analogs its a safe bet that there are other addictive additives in there. So for some... that are mentally strong or otherwise, it's easy to just vape. Others like me who are having a hard time might be addicted to other additives and might not even know it. Thats why it's a gradual process and the body needs to adjust and everyone is different and progresses at their own pace... good post

You may be misunderstanding some major points. You would do well to actually read the links I posted earlier which are part of DVap's blog. A major point is some people will never adjust to the purified type nicotine found in PV's. If you've been using a PV for many mouths and still can't get off the cigarettes, or are constantly fighting the urge to smoke then there is a good chance you may fall into that category. If you're chain vaping 36mg e-liquid and still can't get off cigarettes there is more going on then just more nicotine, or a better battery, or some magic flavor, or some combination of the above.

Just do some research as this has all been extensively gone through before. No reason to reinvent the wheel.

DVap you are right indeed. Those of us down in the smokeless tobacco section are overall a happy lot. The problem may be that decades of misinformation about smokeless tobacco by the very people trying to ban PV's has done it's job. It looks like a new generation of folks has arrived and we have to do the whole education process all over again. Where is TropicalBob when we need him?

 

[DVap]

The three part summary that Madame P wrote up is posted among my blog entries. Anyone who takes the time to click on the blog link under my avatar and gives these three entries a read will come away with some fundamental understandings about tobacco addiction and the role of alternatives such as ecigs and smokeless tobacco. An "AHA!" moment or three is guaranteed as these summaries quite nicely distill months of questions, research, experimentation, and observation by a good many people very motivated by the same sorts of issues being discussed here and elsewhere.

No need to reinvent the wheel!

I see that Stubby isn't denying the "degenerate .......s" characterisation of the smokeless crowd.

Y'all just don't understand the power of the dark side!

You may be misunderstanding some major points. You would do well to actually read the links I posted earlier which are part of DVap's blog. A major point is some people will never adjust to the purified type nicotine found in PV's. If you've been using a PV for many mouths and still can't get off the cigarettes, or are constantly fighting the urge to smoke then there is a good chance you may fall into that category. If you're chain vaping 36mg e-liquid and still can't get off cigarettes there is more going on then just more nicotine, or a better battery, or some magic flavor, or some combination of the above.

Just do some research as this has all been extensively gone through before. No reason to reinvent the wheel.

DVap you are right indeed. Those of us down in the smokeless tobacco section are overall a happy lot. The problem may be that decades of misinformation about smokeless tobacco by the very people trying to ban PV's has done it's job. It looks like a new generation of folks has arrived and we have to do the whole education process all over again. Where is TropicalBob when we need him?

 

[wetclay]

Well, this will make you feel better.
I also still smoke while vaping for the last 6wks. And I still crave the cig. and would prefer it to vaping anytime.
On the other hand, I'm down to less than a pack a day from 2.5-3 packs a day. That's great. I'll take easy on myself. One step at a time.
The issue for me is that I don't really like the flavors so far. When I find my flavor, I guess I'll be down to 5 or 6 cigs a day. And to part away from those last 5, I'll need strong will power.
So I'm on that route and sure I'll reach my goal one day.
So you're not alone.
Just allow yourself to progress smoothly and naturally. Don't push yourself.

 

[hittman]

Junior, I would definitely recommend reading thru as much as you can of the information that DVap and Stubby have given you. I went back and read this thread from the beginning and it reminds me of a thread that I started about a year ago which was basically a cry for help. I actually quit smoking for about 8-9 weeks with vaping only but felt myself sinking into depression from the lack of alkaloids that DVap mentions that are in tobacco. It was like someone turned on a light in my head when I tried my first snus portion. Now you are in a different situation where you haven't quit yet but I have to wonder if it isn't the alkaloids that are still keeping you going back for the smokes. I won't lie, I have had a smoke here and there but swedish snus really does the trick for me. I never thought I could go even a couple hours without a cigarette after smoking about 30 a day for around 23 years. Now I can go for an entire day with snus. I still vape a little to take care of the hand to mouth habit but vape less than 1ml a day where I was going thru around 4-5ml of 24,30, and 36mg liquid a day and still never getting the satisfied feeling that I did from smoking. Oh and by the way, we may be " degenerates" but like Dvap said, we're a pretty happy bunch in the smokeless forum. If you would like to, feel free to drop in and say hi. We would be glad to share any information that we can.

 

[wv2win]

I didn't read every post, so I apologize if this was mentioned. I regularly recommend the eGo type PV's to new members. But you might want to consider a good 5 volt mod along with the 24mg liquid. The extra warmth of the vapor and throat hit provided by a 5 volt mod was what got me over the "hump" of those last 2-4 analogs a day.

Good Luck

 

[JuniorNA]

I forgot to mention this also, but i'm a lifetime snus and smokeless tobacco user. From camel snus to the good imported stuff. I usually just skoal long cut and would chomp on that PLUS smoke during the day while at work when i first started working here because I didn't want to be the "new guy" going out to smoke every 40 minutes. So I'm familiar with the alkaloids you speak of, very familiar with it.

After using the stop smoking app, i went from 35 analogs a day to average of 10 analogs a day in about a 5 day period. I'm using an LR atty, on a eGo (36mg menthol), smoking halocigs Torque56, and halocigs menthol ice, and using Nhaler CherryBomb, and NHaler NuPort (all of them I love and don't mind at all). After finally trying to stop chasing the analog taste, i've been enjoying every single taste of vape when I do it. I've come to appreciate the different flavors, and while i'm vaping nonstop, it's atleast saving me money on the analogs, and at least i'm not smoking analogs as much. One step at a time, then when i can finally stop the analogs, after a few weeks of heavy vaping, I'll taper off the vaping. I don't ever want to stop vaping, but i do want to put the thing down for a half hour at some point, instead of vaping every 2 minutes, lol. Again one step at a time, anything to stop the analogs, then taper off the vape.

I actually was so into snus, I had a whole extractor kit. It comes with the syringe type plunger to suck up the snus, and that way you an place it in a tight ball above the top teeth. Otherwise the snus would go everywhere. I eventually found it to be too much of a pain, and went back to skoal...but I did love the fact that the Swedish snus required little or no spitting at all.


And FYI, Of course i read the links from DVap, and the 3 part blog. I read whatever I'm told to read, when it comes to eCigs. If a veteran tells me to learn and read up on it, I'm going to. It was very informative. But remember, just because I know WHY I still want to smoke analogs (alkaloids)...it doesnt mean that we don't need help in trying to stop. I certainly don't want to give up vaping and go with snus or skoal again...that's just as bad as smoking if not worse. I had holes in my gums, and they are just now finally repairing themselves after a year of being DIP free.

What i've been reading is that not all eLiquid has alkaloids as an additive...however some organic juices do have it. For example, NHaler.com has a new line of eLiq that does contain the alkaloid additive, which in itself is addicting (which we all know). Here is his disclaimer.

Disclaimer:
Liquid may contain alkaloid which is known to be addictive. It should not be used by minors or pregnant or nursing women. Liquid smoke juice may contain propylene glycol.

Also, here is an insert from Tropical Bob back in Dec 09, regarding alkoloids in eLiquid which seemed to help him in the "what's missing department"

TropicalBob
12-15-2009, 04:16 PM
Many veterans know something is missing in vapor. Indeed, cigarette smokers are not solely addicted to nicotine, which is provided (inadequately) in e-liquid, but to smoking. And that means all tobacco alkaloids are needed to "scratch the itch" when quitting cigarettes.

I've done a previous YouTube video showing how to soak a snus portion, stuff it into an 801 cart, and vape away. This time, I use snips of a little cigar. The most effective vapor was created by soaking a piece of little cigar in 48mg tasteless e-liquid. Now that packed a punch -- and contained whole tobacco alkaloids I need.

I've been part of a massive thread discussion on ECF about what's missing, and the development of a whole tobacco alkaloid (WTA) liquid. I've tested that WTA liquid at 24mg strength and most recently at 48mg strength. It works.


Ps. See, i've been reading !

 

[hittman]

Junior, that's fantastic that you have made that much progress already. You couldn't pay me to touch American dip/chew. It is known to cause mouth damage. I have never used loose snus either like you mentioned. I have always used the swedish snus in the portion pouches. I am in braces and am at the ortho office at least once a month and get cleanings by my regular dentist every three months. Neither one has seen any damage from my use of snus portions. I have seen research done on snus with reports that state that it is much safer than smoking or American chew. I am not trying to sway you but just want people to know that Swedish made snus is much safer than smoking, chew, or dip. I am not sure exactly what that claim from Nhaler means. I have bought liquid and supplies from Drew for over a year. I will go take a look and maybe send him a pm since you have pointed out that this is new. I don't really understand how the alkaloids could be added back in but maybe DVap could jump in on this explanation. It was my understanding that the alkaloids are in the tobacco and removed when the nicotine is extracted. I am very curious though to see what Drew has to say about the statement that you quoted. If I find out anything then I'll post it back here. Good luck Junior. I do hope this whole thing works out for you the way you want it to.

 

[JuniorNA]

Thanks hittman! I agree that Swedish snus is a lot stronger, contains more nic, but is safer, I found this out during my investigation on snus pouches, vs. loose snus, vs. American DIP. The snus pouches (I buy the camel frost ones) are American made ( I think ), packaged with the Swedish idea and look, and Swedish way of snus making. I used to pop 2-3 snus pouches in my mouth (wintergreen or frost) for a few hours and i used to love it. Eventually I went back to smoking because of the physical hand to mouth situation, and was using snus and smoking so I was doubling the dangers! and getting crazy Nicotine overloads. I eventually went back to smoking regularly, but started to do more research on the eCigs, which is how i realized I was going about it all wrong, i was spending hundreds of dollars on prefilled carts, terrible attys, automatic batteries, and I was getting sucked in by the hype of good marketing. It wasn't until recently when I went to LR attys, ego batteries, drip tips, and dripping 36mg juice, learning how to make my own eLiq, learning about doublers, etc. All of that learning, has led me to drop the analog intake where as before, smoking a regular mini joy 306 with prefilled menthol 12mg carts was just something to show my friends and something as a gadget about 2 years ago. It did nothing for me, and now i'm using the digital smoking to the fullest extent, which obviously is helping to lower my analog intake as well.

The liquid i mentioned from NHaler is a part of his new line of "lung juice", it's supposedly organic, and supposedly extracted differently from tobacco leaves and is 100% pure, therefore it contains the alkaloids that are present in a tobacco plan, or tobacco extract, or tobacco that you would smoke in an an analog, which is why he has that disclaimer. You can ask him as well, i'd love to know what the exact extraction method is, and how he is able to get alkaloids into the liquid. That is also why the MG strength is low, I believe the highest you can go is.


Here is the full description of his lung Juice.

Lung juice is a new product we've created to stimulate a natural body healing process by vaping herbs that have been said to nourish the lungs and other vital organs. Lung juice is mixed with liquid flavors and is available in 12mg (8mg on specific products.) The ingredients are as follows:

* Elecampane Root and Flower
* Mulletein leaf
* Osha Root
* Yerba Mansa(whole Plant)
* Yerba Santa Leaf
* Dandelion Leaf
* Licorice root
* Lobieala Root
* A water extraction tincture of Cordyceps
* Reishi Mushroom Alcohol Extraction
* In a base of pure grain alcohol, distilled water and vegetable glycerin.

Then his disclaimer.

Disclaimer:
Liquid may contain alkaloid which is known to be addictive. It should not be used by minors or pregnant or nursing women. Liquid smoke juice may contain propylene glycol. Those allergic to propylene glycol or those with other medical conditions should consult a physician before using. Keep out of reach of children and pets. Always store with the child proof cap. Do not store with the dropper cap in the bottle. Store in a cool dry place, out of direct sunlight. Never, ever drink liquid. Use at your own risk.

 

[hittman]

Junior, is this a new type of lung juice? Drew has offered lung juice for a long time and I even tried a couple but the nic is too low for me. I have tried real Whole Tobacco Alkaloid liquid and it is unlike any other liquid out there that I have tried. It is so much like a cigarette that it made me feel guilty like I was smoking. The nic concentration I had was 30mg and I think that TBob had some special made at 48mg. I use 30-36mg liquids and the WTA liquid has such a more realistic feel to it when you inhale it. It is hard to explain except to say that it is as close as I can imagine to smoking without burning tobacco. From what I understand, it is an expensive process to make the WTA liquid and would surely drive the price up quite a bit.

As far as the lung juice, it says may contain alkaloids. It doesn't say contains tobacco alkaloids. I guess that's why I question it. Like I said, I will try to find out.

 

[JuniorNA]

yeah, you're right. It does say may contain alkaloids...so it's probably not using the same method as the lung juice you've mentioned.

Where did you get the WTA liquid? I'd love to try that and see how it tastes and vapes...did you get that online? or was that DIY?

 

[Drewsworld]

Not sure if Im allowed to post here or not , but if it is against the rules , the Admin may move it ...
Nicotine is an alkaloid and we just like the word better on the site. No difference, just the wording. Thanks for the heads up Hittman.
Drew

 

[Heartbskts]

I also tell myself I can wait 10 minutes and if the cravings are still there then I will smoke.

I saw this same phrase yesterday on anothr post and it is so true!!!! I smoked analogs the 1st 6 weeks or so after I started vaping. I was down to just 2 a day and couldn't give them up. I told myself that "I will get through this" and just vaped like crazy and I was able to finally do it. I pretty much had to quit though- I have emphesyma and diagnosed pretty early (I hope). I'm too young for that!!
I agree, if you normally smoke menthols, I would try vaping other flavors. It's got to be worth trying anyways!
Good luck to you- You will get there!

 

[hittman]

Not sure if Im allowed to post here or not , but if it is against the rules , the Admin may move it ...
Nicotine is an alkaloid and we just like the word better on the site. No difference, just the wording. Thanks for the heads up Hittman.
Drew

Thanks for jumping in on this one Drew.

 

[hittman]

yeah, you're right. It does say may contain alkaloids...so it's probably not using the same method as the lung juice you've mentioned.

Where did you get the WTA liquid? I'd love to try that and see how it tastes and vapes...did you get that online? or was that DIY?

I did not buy it online or make it myself. I have been asked to not mention who made it for me since that person does not want to be swamped with requests for it as it is from what I understand a costly and time consuming process but I can tell you that it is extracted from real tobacco and feels much like using real tobacco. I wish I could share more information but can't.

 

[Heartbskts]

Do a search on this forum- I know I've seen a few people post how to do this- maybe in the DIY sections?

 

[Yiorgo]

Wow this is a long and really honest post ...... I never wanted to let myself believe I was smoking as much as I was (chain smoking) so I'd say "I smoke around 1.5 packs a day" which was BS more like 2.5 for 25 years ! You think You got it bad ....... *I'd smoke in the shower that became habit.... got used to it when I was a 16 (thought the steam and vent wud kill the smell trying to hide it from mom and dad ) hanging a towel into the shower so I wouldn't wet my morning smoke IN THE SHOWER! SCARY, that was then ......I literally stopped smoking the day I got my ego.....well stopped the excess anyway but having to keep a pack around just in case and taking a coupla hits off an analog when I was out of juice , after I found and stocked my favorite vape I personally don't ever even think about smoking analogs anymore NOR HAVE A SAFETY PACK, FOR BACK UP ANYWHERE (As of a week ago ~so see we're all different in our experience) .... the menthol thing is probably complicating things cause of a better TH (those are what I smoked as a kid).........now, *IMOO I think analogs now because of finding quality e~liquid not only taste like brunt crap but have no flavor .......the flavor coupled with the TH and tweeking nic level... did it for me..........its expensive in the beginning trying to find the right juice. Once you do IM CONFIDENT you'll not only quit smoking but start saving money.