No one talks organic?
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yes i can, google organic vs natural under images you will find what i posted for a larger view
All in all, I would just hope to open one eye in the DIY department. The basis of this post is we all want the best tasting, most satisfying juice. Dip your hand in the organic department and you just might find what you're looking for !
thanks for reading
Take a good look at that, for everyone hopping on the health/safety wagon.
This was a very open ended closure
why are you opposed to organic anyways ( to the people arguing with me )
thanks for reading
Take a good look at that, for everyone hopping on the health/safety wagon.
This was a very open ended closure
why are you opposed to organic anyways ( to the people arguing with me )
Organic foods are grown without fertilizers, insecticides, or other chemicals. If your understanding is different, you are making an extraordinary claim, which requires extraordinary proof. From you, not your audience. I have a vague feeling you are confusing Organic with Genetically Modified.
Still, time to move on. . . .
Still, time to move on. . . .
Someone said it fairly well, so I'll quote them here, "So is there truly a difference between natural and artificial flavorings? Yes. Artificial flavorings are simpler in composition and potentially safer because only safety-tested components are utilized. Another difference between natural and artificial flavorings is cost. The search for "natural" sources of chemicals often requires that a manufacturer go to great lengths to obtain a given chemical. Natural coconut flavorings, for example, depend on a chemical called massoya lactone. Massoya lactone comes from the bark of the Massoya tree, which grows in Malaysia. Collecting this natural chemical kills the tree because harvesters must remove the bark and extract it to obtain the lactone. Furthermore, the process is costly. This pure natural chemical is identical to the version made in an organic chemists laboratory, yet it is much more expensive than the synthetic alternative. Consumers pay a lot for natural flavorings. But these are in fact no better in quality, nor are they safer, than their cost-effective artificial counterparts."
Organic refers to the treatment of the source of natural flavoring.
I know that natural raspberry flavoring comes from a sac in the rump of beavers, but I have no idea if those beavers raised for this purpose are in an organic manner, yet, but I'm sure it will come as more folks clamor for organic flavorings.
The other method is to do extractions, like with vanilla beans, which introduce fats and sugars into the flavoring which have an impact on heating coils and wicks we all use. Not to mention the known inhalation hazard that comes from naturally from dairy and fermentation that would be present in extractions that start with those types of things.
Organic can lead to much unhealthier things for a body or the planet without proper research. Which makes it a buzz-word to make the research seem unnecessary to me. The mindset of organic=better-for-you is a stereotype. Stereotypes lead to something undesirable.
It takes two, or more, to argue. Arguing can lead to greater understanding of subjects on everyone's parts. You are not arguing and have stated as much.
Organic refers to the treatment of the source of natural flavoring.
I know that natural raspberry flavoring comes from a sac in the rump of beavers, but I have no idea if those beavers raised for this purpose are in an organic manner, yet, but I'm sure it will come as more folks clamor for organic flavorings.
The other method is to do extractions, like with vanilla beans, which introduce fats and sugars into the flavoring which have an impact on heating coils and wicks we all use. Not to mention the known inhalation hazard that comes from naturally from dairy and fermentation that would be present in extractions that start with those types of things.
Organic can lead to much unhealthier things for a body or the planet without proper research. Which makes it a buzz-word to make the research seem unnecessary to me. The mindset of organic=better-for-you is a stereotype. Stereotypes lead to something undesirable.
It takes two, or more, to argue. Arguing can lead to greater understanding of subjects on everyone's parts. You are not arguing and have stated as much.
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ur kidding me right? im confusing organic with GMO's what is your basis LOL
hoosier, organic is a grade of food
organic>>>All natural>>>natural>>>conventional>>>>artificial/synthetic
organic>>>All natural>>>natural>>>conventional>>>>artificial/synthetic
Well said. Nutrition is one thing, but having organic everything can be redundant and costly. When it comes to the DIY world, our ignorance should be humbly accepted while moving forward. Imo, debates like these are more productive than they are harmful, and in a sense, we should seek them out. I wasn't around for it, but I would be willing to bet that when this community started discussing diacetyl, there were some who argued it was no big deal and perhaps to this day continue to vape it, perhaps with good reason, perhaps not.
It's a grade? So when I see USP organic VG, which is the better grade? USP or Organic?
It's not a grade, it matches nothing in the meaning of the word "grade". VG cannot be all natural since it is a processed substance, but it can be organic because it is sourced from things grown without pesticides and processed fertilizer. Organic is a type of process, not a grade. Tobacco can be grown organically. I've done it. I've bedded the seeds in fermented chicken droppings. I've transplanted it and rogued it. I've cut it and staked it. This tobacco can be sent for processing to become nicotine which would be organic, but there is nothing natural about extracted nicotine as it does not exist in that form in nature. Since the nicotine is stripped out of all the other chemicals, in the process, the organic part only really has meaning for those who want a change in the methods of farming as the nicotine coming from other tobaccos is the same chemical with the same lack of impurities as the organic tobacco.
No where does that make it a grade or better for a body. It may be better for the mind and spirit, but the same chemical is the same chemical. Organic refers to the process or growing the flora or fauna, not the grade of the product. Organic even has a legal definition.
One of the all natural chemicals that could be found in organic substances. (And actually more likely to be in natural organic flavoring than artificial ones since most flavoring vendors ran screaming from it quite awhile back and none of the natural organic flavoring companies I've seen will even respond directly to questions about it.)
I left the word out of my response because it tends to draw quite a bit of activity and could derail the thread. I suspect we are on a crazy train anyway so it seems only appropriate...
Precisely why some people stopped ordering from NF. Since they're all organic, diacetyl appears in their concentrates by default, even though they don't 'add' any in their formulas post-extraction. This is one of the pieces of information that led me to lay off the natural extracts (excluding tea and tobacco) until further research is done.
Your picture comparison would be someone scamming organic enthusiasts. Good for shock and awe, not so much for truth.
When someone extracts natural flavors they are extracting chemicals that make up the tastes and smells.
The second one would be more acurately shown as,
methyl acetate, ethyl acetate, methyl propanoate, isopropyl acetate, ethyl propanoate, methyl butyrate, (E)-2-pentenal, butyric acid, methyl isovalerate, 3-hexanone (IS), ethyl butyrate, n-hexanal, butyl acetate, methyl pentanoate, 2-methyl butanoic acid, isopropyl butanoate, ethyl 2-methylbutanoate, ethyl 3-methylbutanoate, (E)-hexanal, (E)-2-hexen-1-ol, 1-hexanol, isoamyl acetate, 2-methylbutyl acetate, 2-heptanone, propyl butyrate, ethyl pentanoate, 2-heptanol, amyl acetate, (E,E)-2,4-hexadienal, methyl hexanoate, hexanoic acid, benzaldehyde, butyl butyrate, ethyl hexanoate, (Z)-3-hexenyl acetate, hexyl acetate, (E)-2-hexenyl acetate, isopropyl hexanoate, ethyl-2-hexenoate, d-limonene, amyl butyrate, furaneol, heptanoic acid, mesifurane, propyl hexanoate, linalool, nonanal, methyl octanoate, octanoic acid, ocimenol, benzyl acetate, ethyl benzoate, butyl hexanoate, ethyl octanoate, octyl acetate, alpha-terpineol, isoamyl hexanoate, nonanoic acid, octyl butyrate, ethyl decanoate, decyl acetate, octyl butyrate, ethyl decanoate, decyl acetate, octyl isovalerate, beta-farnesene, gamma-decalactone, alpha-farnesene, (E)-nerolidol, octyl hexanoate, decyl butyrate, gamma-dodecalactone.
http://journal.ashspublications.org/content/133/6/859.full.pdf
That is what makes up a strawberry.
The first one is a bunch of BS.
Although the writing is small some of the chemical sprays for pesticides and fungicides listed that I recognize are not common use with strawberries. My bottles are not even rated for strawberries, although the pros have different rules.
Not much is used on strawberry fruit because they're not fruiting long enough to require much.
And I hate to be the one to break it to you but Spinosad is organic and that would probably be one that is used for slugs which do attack the berry.
Strawberries come up from roots to harvest too quick to spray with most of the chemicals in your list. There's this pesky little thing called a PHI which rules out a lot of those chemicals being used on the fruit. Although not Captan, which our glorious FDA/EPA allows some fruit to be dipped in post harvest.
So you fire the first shot and cry about the war when shots get fired back?
If all you intended was to try out some flavors you should've left the bad information out of it and just talked about flavors.
Wrong. (just as that pictures above are wrong)
"Organic" is pretty meaningless IMO because the things that classification can allow may as well allow anything. "100% organic" rules out GMO and chemical fertilizers and insecticides.
NOTHING rules out fertilizers and insecticides or "other chemicals" because plants need fertilizer to grow and everything is a chemical.
Manure is a fertilizer and is perfectly OK to use for organics, fertizing to keep the plants healthy is a very important part of organic growing. Spinosad is an organic approved pesticide. I'm not sure about nicotine, but at least at one time it was allowed for organics, but not the synthetic neonicontinoids. Pyrethrum would be allowed but not the synthetic pyrethroids. The inconvenient truth to those are nicotine and pyrethrum require very frequent sprays when compared to the synthetics so can actually do more damage to the planet than their synthetic counterparts.
When someone extracts natural flavors they are extracting chemicals that make up the tastes and smells.
The second one would be more acurately shown as,
methyl acetate, ethyl acetate, methyl propanoate, isopropyl acetate, ethyl propanoate, methyl butyrate, (E)-2-pentenal, butyric acid, methyl isovalerate, 3-hexanone (IS), ethyl butyrate, n-hexanal, butyl acetate, methyl pentanoate, 2-methyl butanoic acid, isopropyl butanoate, ethyl 2-methylbutanoate, ethyl 3-methylbutanoate, (E)-hexanal, (E)-2-hexen-1-ol, 1-hexanol, isoamyl acetate, 2-methylbutyl acetate, 2-heptanone, propyl butyrate, ethyl pentanoate, 2-heptanol, amyl acetate, (E,E)-2,4-hexadienal, methyl hexanoate, hexanoic acid, benzaldehyde, butyl butyrate, ethyl hexanoate, (Z)-3-hexenyl acetate, hexyl acetate, (E)-2-hexenyl acetate, isopropyl hexanoate, ethyl-2-hexenoate, d-limonene, amyl butyrate, furaneol, heptanoic acid, mesifurane, propyl hexanoate, linalool, nonanal, methyl octanoate, octanoic acid, ocimenol, benzyl acetate, ethyl benzoate, butyl hexanoate, ethyl octanoate, octyl acetate, alpha-terpineol, isoamyl hexanoate, nonanoic acid, octyl butyrate, ethyl decanoate, decyl acetate, octyl butyrate, ethyl decanoate, decyl acetate, octyl isovalerate, beta-farnesene, gamma-decalactone, alpha-farnesene, (E)-nerolidol, octyl hexanoate, decyl butyrate, gamma-dodecalactone.
http://journal.ashspublications.org/content/133/6/859.full.pdf
That is what makes up a strawberry.
The first one is a bunch of BS.
Although the writing is small some of the chemical sprays for pesticides and fungicides listed that I recognize are not common use with strawberries. My bottles are not even rated for strawberries, although the pros have different rules.
Not much is used on strawberry fruit because they're not fruiting long enough to require much.
And I hate to be the one to break it to you but Spinosad is organic and that would probably be one that is used for slugs which do attack the berry.
Strawberries come up from roots to harvest too quick to spray with most of the chemicals in your list. There's this pesky little thing called a PHI which rules out a lot of those chemicals being used on the fruit. Although not Captan, which our glorious FDA/EPA allows some fruit to be dipped in post harvest.
So you fire the first shot and cry about the war when shots get fired back?
If all you intended was to try out some flavors you should've left the bad information out of it and just talked about flavors.
Wrong. (just as that pictures above are wrong)
"Organic" is pretty meaningless IMO because the things that classification can allow may as well allow anything. "100% organic" rules out GMO and chemical fertilizers and insecticides.
NOTHING rules out fertilizers and insecticides or "other chemicals" because plants need fertilizer to grow and everything is a chemical.
Manure is a fertilizer and is perfectly OK to use for organics, fertizing to keep the plants healthy is a very important part of organic growing. Spinosad is an organic approved pesticide. I'm not sure about nicotine, but at least at one time it was allowed for organics, but not the synthetic neonicontinoids. Pyrethrum would be allowed but not the synthetic pyrethroids. The inconvenient truth to those are nicotine and pyrethrum require very frequent sprays when compared to the synthetics so can actually do more damage to the planet than their synthetic counterparts.
all i want to do is make my own flavors from the fruit i consider i help nature grow organically in my backyard...preferably without waiting 6 months.
I am thinking i can dehydrate/slow cook out the moisture and do flavor extraction with glycerin or alcohol and possibly reduce further. I've experimented with vg and filtered fresh juice, but it seems to have too much sugar. then im thinking of fermenting the fruit and boiling off the alcohol and using that....
I am thinking i can dehydrate/slow cook out the moisture and do flavor extraction with glycerin or alcohol and possibly reduce further. I've experimented with vg and filtered fresh juice, but it seems to have too much sugar. then im thinking of fermenting the fruit and boiling off the alcohol and using that....
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Diog Ill tell you what ive told others. I do alot of extractions and fruits cannot be done without distillation. So unless you are going to build/invest in distilling gear forget it. There is too much natural sugar in fruits and in order to remove it its gotta be distilled.
Now, while I also find this thread rather amusing... Ill stoke this fire a little although I shouldnt.
Anyone on this great earth that still thinks any product we buy from metal sheets to food is "organic" is living in a fantasy world. For any plants we consume, meat we eat, there is NO such thing as organic.
There isnt a drop of soil in the usa that hasnt been contaminated by man made byproducts, pesticides, poisons, neuclear waste... you name it. Every so called organic product isnt organic anymore. You can even find pesticide traces, and radiation from fukoshima and chernobyl in the Alleghany Mountains here in NY.
The only thing "organic" means is limiting your exposure "somehow". Dont fool yourself into believing for a second the soil its grown in hasnt been tainted.
A little rain water will ruin that idea right quick.
Bottom line, vape what you like and have fun doing it. If you are that retentive that you have to come to a forum and become an apostate for organic and hope to enlighten someone (for no apparent reason) then ok but dont expect not to get it thrown back at ya.
Now, while I also find this thread rather amusing... Ill stoke this fire a little although I shouldnt.
Anyone on this great earth that still thinks any product we buy from metal sheets to food is "organic" is living in a fantasy world. For any plants we consume, meat we eat, there is NO such thing as organic.
There isnt a drop of soil in the usa that hasnt been contaminated by man made byproducts, pesticides, poisons, neuclear waste... you name it. Every so called organic product isnt organic anymore. You can even find pesticide traces, and radiation from fukoshima and chernobyl in the Alleghany Mountains here in NY.
The only thing "organic" means is limiting your exposure "somehow". Dont fool yourself into believing for a second the soil its grown in hasnt been tainted.
A little rain water will ruin that idea right quick.
Bottom line, vape what you like and have fun doing it. If you are that retentive that you have to come to a forum and become an apostate for organic and hope to enlighten someone (for no apparent reason) then ok but dont expect not to get it thrown back at ya.
That is my problem, using vape and organic in the same breath.
If someone's that worried about organic why would they be inhaling anything into their lungs that wasn't clean air?
Tobacco and fire are organic.
The amount of GMO and chemical fertilizers, pesticides or fungicide that would make it through the processing of the VG and the flavorings wouldn't hold a candle to the potential risks of chronically inhaling the VG and flavorings.
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