No wires or soldering... how?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Trox.Shawn

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 6, 2009
548
89
40
Des Allemands, Louisiana
Hi i have an idea on a mod i would like to make but have no idea on how to make it without wires or solders... can somebody give me an idea on how to make a circuit with just the battery case. thanks.

Not to stop this interesting debate about which is better, but I do not believe the OP asked which is better simply how to do a mod using a mechanical switch.

Personally I would to have a better explanation of this myself, because I would like to build my own 6v mod. I actually prefer the bottom button design, and I suck with a soldering gun. I don't think it matters as to which is better, only that the OP was looking for a diagram for the circuit
 

Drewsworld

Resting In Peace
Mar 14, 2009
6,394
1,029
New Jersey
www.nhaler.com
I am thinking of any regulate will cause a draw and an unnecessary expense with a properly well thought out design...Consistency of atomizer performance is an oxymoronic statement and can be achieved BETTER with a natural inherent resistance applied in the body of the unit without any additional cost...WHY the design would include a Morphodite battery that is hard to obtain and unavailable in protected models(CR2) is another design flaw...Any battery (even protected) can can fail and burst but would require multiple consecutive failures ( in protected modelsLifePo4 available with wall and car charger for $16 ) which is why we drill holes in the bottom and seal the top to direct piousness gases away from the mouth and face...
 

Dave Rickey

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Aug 30, 2009
191
3
Austin TX
If the atomizer gets a constant 5V, one factor that significantly affects its performance has been eliminated (it will draw the same current and generate the same heat every puff). You're not doing that with a passive resistor, whether a component or provided by the body of the device. Switch buck regulators can be 95% efficient, which means you gain vaping time (lower current draw).

Why would a device use CR2's? To be smaller than it otherwise would be, of course. Otherwise, everyone would use 25500 C cells.

Why not use LiFePO4 or LiMN cells that have no risk of thermal runaway? Because they have 25-33% lower energy density (LiFePO4 also has a lower base voltage), which means either less vaping time per cell or bigger cells. And just because they won't turn into a firebomb doesn't mean you don't want under-voltage protection, as running them way down can reduce their recharge cycle life from hundreds of recharges to dozens (or zero).

BTW, as far as I know there's no such thing as a protected LiFePO4. Li-Po(lymer), yes, but those are generally only available in flatpacks, and have the same thermal runaway problem as Li-Ion.

Give it *up*, man. There's nothing wrong with mechanical designs, it's just another set of design constraints to work around, a different set of tradeoffs. But they're not the be-all, end-all, either.

See, if you're such an expert on mechanical eCig's, you could have been helping this guy. Instead you decided to have a slapfight with me, so now I've got to do it, assuming he's even still paying attention:

A switchless design is one where the circuit is formed without an electronic switch, usually involving touching the positive end to an atomizer or battery fitting, or to a rod/nail/screw that contacts the atomizer fitting. Springs to keep things out of contact when not in use are generally involved. The advantage is that since the contact points are very large, the degradation that involves every cycle of the circuit being closed and opened is comparatively trivial. Since switches are the most likely point of failure in a battery mod, this gives them a high reliability factor.

Solderless mods take that a step farther, and do it all with no solder, just screw threads, springs, and plastic sleeves. They can be extremely tough physically, literally to the point of surviving being driven over by a truck with only superficial scratches. The downside is that they generally look like a pipe bomb or "potato masher" hand grenade.

--Dave
 

Nuck

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Feb 14, 2009
2,265
10
Ontario, Canada
Having vaped mods with regulated and constant voltage for months I can tell you straight out that the first vape freshly charged is identical to the last vape when the battery runs below cut off.

It also gets rid of current sag under load that affects pure battery boxes and the difference between the two models is night and day.

If you want a consistent full vape every single hit, the only way you are going to achieve it is by regulating the current and voltage after it leaves the battery and before it hits the atomizer using one of the many methods explained above.

Btw..they all require soldering :)
 

Dave Rickey

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Aug 30, 2009
191
3
Austin TX
2 RCR123A 3.0V 750mAh Rechargeable LiFePO4 Li-Ion Batteries with AC/DC Smart Charger Ok I will risk being blinded by cr2s and spend more time and money and risk solder failure and poisoning ..Your right I give up...What was I thinking???
750mAh at 3.0 volts nominal equals 600mAh at 3.6 nominal, a Li-Ion CR123 would have an 880mAh rating (inflated, but so is that 600mAh). Not that I'm disagreeing with you, I think that double-cell mods should be using LiFePO4, because the 8.4V peak of double Li-Ion is serious overkill (even dangerously so). But it does mean a hit to battery capacity and therefore vaping time, and it's not like the mod maker can really control what battery chemistry the user puts in his device (unless he's the only user).

Frankly, you're better off with an 18500-18650 and a boost regulator than packing in 2 CR2's or CR123's (bigger cells are more efficient and will carry more energy in the same volume). But that is more complicated and requires soldering. Actually, you're better off with an 18350 and a boost regulator than with two CR2's.

BTW, those are *not* protected cells. See how the side near the negative doesn't have a ridge, but the actual negative contact does? Without additional circuitry, nothing will stop those cells from being drained under 2V and being rendered unchargeable.

Oh, and another thing: How do you think the PCB is electrically connected to the cell on a Li-Ion? And did you ever hear of "Lead Free Solder"?

--Dave
 

Nuck

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Feb 14, 2009
2,265
10
Ontario, Canada
750mAh at 3.0 volts nominal equals 600mAh at 3.6 nominal, a Li-Ion CR123 would have an 880mAh rating (inflated, but so is that 600mAh). Not that I'm disagreeing with you, I think that double-cell mods should be using LiFePO4, because the 8.4V peak of double Li-Ion is serious overkill (even dangerously so). But it does mean a hit to battery capacity and therefore vaping time, and it's not like the mod maker can really control what battery chemistry the user puts in his device (unless he's the only user).

Frankly, you're better off with an 18500-18650 and a boost regulator than packing in 2 CR2's or CR123's (bigger cells are more efficient and will carry more energy in the same volume). But that is more complicated and requires soldering. Actually, you're better off with an 18350 and a boost regulator than with two CR2's.

BTW, those are *not* protected cells. See how the side near the negative doesn't have a ridge, but the actual negative contact does? Without additional circuitry, nothing will stop those cells from being drained under 2V and being rendered unchargeable.

Oh, and another thing: How do you think the PCB is electrically connected to the cell on a Li-Ion? And did you ever hear of "Lead Free Solder"?

--Dave

Quick note....I tested a boost converter on every conceivable battery I could and the only Li-ions that could handle the current draw consistently were the 18500 and the 18650. The 18500 starts to falter at 5.2v with a 510 atty (current becomes erratic after about 4 seconds) and the 18650 could handle anything I threw at it. I don't think the 18350 is up to the task.
 

Dave Rickey

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Aug 30, 2009
191
3
Austin TX
Quick note....I tested a boost converter on every conceivable battery I could and the only Li-ions that could handle the current draw consistently were the 18500 and the 18650. The 18500 starts to falter at 5.2v with a 510 atty (current becomes erratic after about 4 seconds) and the 18650 could handle anything I threw at it. I don't think the 18350 is up to the task.
510 is a bit of an extreme case, at 5.2 on a 510 you're pushing over 2A and drawing nearly 4A. Any Li-Ion starts having issues past 2C, it's just than anything under an 18350 *starts* there with an eCig. The fact that stock eCigs are draining at 5-8C is why battery mods perform so much better to begin with.

Pushing an 18350 to 5.2V would definitely be a bridge too far, I'm looking at more like 4.5V (and it probably won't like 510's any more than the 18500 did at 5.2). But in comparison to series CR2's trying to push 2-2.5A? No contest, the 18350 plus boost would win every time, even after factoring for the losses from the booster IC.

But two CR2's take up nearly as much volume as a protected 18500, ditto for 2 CR123's compared to an 18650. If you've got a choice between bucking two cells down or boosting one cell up, it's almost always going to work better to go for the booster.

--Dave
 

Nuck

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Feb 14, 2009
2,265
10
Ontario, Canada
510 is a bit of an extreme case, at 5.2 on a 510 you're pushing over 2A and drawing nearly 4A. Any Li-Ion starts having issues past 2C, it's just than anything under an 18350 *starts* there with an eCig. The fact that stock eCigs are draining at 5-8C is why battery mods perform so much better to begin with.

Pushing an 18350 to 5.2V would definitely be a bridge too far, I'm looking at more like 4.5V (and it probably won't like 510's any more than the 18500 did at 5.2). But in comparison to series CR2's trying to push 2-2.5A? No contest, the 18350 plus boost would win every time, even after factoring for the losses from the booster IC.

But two CR2's take up nearly as much volume as a protected 18500, ditto for 2 CR123's compared to an 18650. If you've got a choice between bucking two cells down or boosting one cell up, it's almost always going to work better to go for the booster.

--Dave

Yeah..I agree. The current set of mods I'm using are all boosted single bat mods and they are kicking ... over even the 2 bat mods voltage regulated mods I made in terms of efficiency. A single 18650 putting out and average of 8w still lasts me over a long day of solid vaping.

Btw..don't you ever sleep?
 

Dave Rickey

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Aug 30, 2009
191
3
Austin TX
Yeah..I agree. The current set of mods I'm using are all boosted single bat mods and they are kicking ... over even the 2 bat mods voltage regulated mods I made in terms of efficiency. A single 18650 putting out and average of 8w still lasts me over a long day of solid vaping.

Btw..don't you ever sleep?
I have a 1 year old and 3 teenagers, plus a time-consuming hobby/small business I can't do much with when I need to watch the baby. Sleep is something I have fond and wistful memories of, but I don't expect to actually get much for a while.

--Dave
 

kc0cmp

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Aug 21, 2009
656
6
Harlingen TX. USA
Super-T1 has no wires - atty connection is outter shell and solid 'pin' center post.

The battery (+) side is pressed up to the center post of the atty connector by the electrically isolated spring at the bottom.

When you press up on the bottom button, you compress the spring and make (-) contact to the bottom of the batt and the shell of the device - ultimately the outter threads of the atty.

Only "wire" involved is the spring :)

i wonder how they handle the atty center connection? what keeps the center post from popping out past the silicone..cause not a lot of pressure is required for that. Maybe theyre not using real atty connectors, but homespun hack and slash DC jacks like the N plug? the battery threads have the center conductor installed by a not terribly durable little plastic or silicone ring...the force of a good sneeze pops those devils right out..so i cant believe theyre putting much pressure on it. I don't have a super T in hand to check how they handled that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread