not happy with e-cigs so far

[sailorman]

Thank you for your explanation, it's crystal clear now that I grasped the meaning of the different names. If I can screw my current batteries to my new e-cig, then yes I will keep them, but maybe I'll get some spare batteries in case they become unusable (I was surprised at first to see that most batteries were only covered by a warranty of 28 days, but given how fragile they are, that finally makes sense ... )
Ok I'll give up the tank systems, when I first see them I thought it was a bright idea: relatively high capacity, no stuffing, etc ... but it turned out to be not that good under real conditions.

Your battery is your e-cig. If you want an e-cig that is not itself a battery, you will have to move away from the sealed battery type of e-cig. The eGo, kGo, Riva, Vgo and similar e-cigs are nothing but sealed batteries with a switch and a connector.

If you want to avoid the situation of having an e-cig wear out, you need an e-cig that accepts separate, cylindrical lithium batteries. All batteries wear out. But if a cylindrical battery wears out, it costs just a few dollars or Euro to replace it. You don't need to replace your entire e-cig.

Think about a flashlight. Do you buy a flashlight that needs to be disposed of when the battery wears out? You probably buy a flashlight that lets you change the batteries. Look at the e-cig in the link below. It is just like an eGo, except this one accepts separate batteries and supplies 3.7V. It also has a switch that can be replaced if it fails. It has more power than an ego and lasts just as long between battery charges as an eGo or kGo or any of the sealed battery types of e-cigs.
Crystal Clear Vaping

This vendor does not ship internationally. I'm just showing you the difference between the kind of e-cig you have and the kind that will eliminate the problem of replacing your entire e-cig when the battery wears out. You won't need spare e-cigs, you just buy new batteries, as you would for your flashlight.

 

[Vapoor eyes er]

ROTFLMAO...

"Vapoor eyez er" has the correct diagnosis and solution to your problem. You'd be wise to follow her advice. It is not necessary to do anything more expensive or complicated."

Her is a He

The Stardusts are also known as the "eGo Vision Clearomizer". There are two versions. The older version, V1 and the newer V2. The older version was also called a CE4. The newer version is CE4+. The CE2 is a type of clearomizer, usually smaller, with the distinguishing characteristic being the coil near the top, close to the lips of the user. The CE3 is a type of clearomizer with the coil at the bottom, closer to the battery. CE2s and CE3s are types of clearomizers rather than specific models.

The model of clearomizer you should be using is the CE4+ or the eGo Vision Clearomizer V2. Or the V2 Stardust.

After reading this whole thread, it is obvious that the source of all your problems has been the juice delivery system. "Vapoor eyez er" is exactly right. You will have much more satisfactory results if you remove the "tank system" you have been using and convert to clearomizers of the CE4+ type (eGo Vision Stardust Clearomizer) with a resistance between 1.6 and 2.4 ohms.

Do not be confused with all the recommendations to change batteries. Your existing eGo battery is perfectly capable. The tank system is the root of the problem and most people experience the same problems and abandon them in favor of clearomizers. Cartomizers can give you satisfactory results as well, but you need to be sure that you know how to properly fill them and, most importantly, how to keep them filled.

With a proper clearomizer, there is no need to rotate between devices or employ any complex strategy. Do not over-complicate the issue. Unless you are interested in using an atomizer regularly by "dripping", use them only to taste new juice. You don't need any expensive or fancy atomizers for that. Just use the ones you have, sans cartridges. They can, and should, be cleaned.

Cleaning atomizers need not be a long or laborious ritual. Rinse them in hot water. Dry burn them. Rinse them again. Let them air dry or dry them in a warm oven. If the coil is very encrusted, soak them in strong vodka for several hours first. If they are extremely encrusted, repeat the rinse-dry burn-rinse cycle a second time. That's all you need to do. If you do it that way, they are worth cleaning. If you need to go through a 15 step, three hour process, then it isn't worth cleaning them.

"Vapoor eyez er" has the correct diagnosis and solution to your problem. You'd be wise to follow her advice. It is not necessary to do anything more expensive or complicated.

 

[Anoregami]

Anoregami, as Sailorman & Vapoor eyez er have said, you don't need to check out any other model e-cigs at all. Your eGo battery is more than fine & you can use it with either cartomisers (Boge 510's) for example or the Vision Stardusts that I, & others have linked to. With either of those options, you will have no need for an atomiser

Also as Sailorman & Vapoor eyez er have said, there are constant reports, not only here but other forums of problems with the atomiser tank systems that you are currently using.

So if I just get the Vision Ego Clearos you linked me earlier, I would not need to buy anything besides that? So it will replace both my tank and the ato with one piece?

PG is an irritant when applied to the skin. It is not an irritant when atomized or vaporized except to a small number of people who have some degree of intolerance or allergy to it. PG is used in thousands of food products. It is used as the carrier in asthma inhalers and other medical inhalers. It is used in hospital ventilation systems for it's ability to kill airborne viruses.

PG does not mute or lessen flavorings. This is why it's used as a flavor carrier. VG mutes flavors and the "throat hit" supplied by nicotine, which IS an irritant when vaporized. This leads to the common misconception that PG is an irritant. If a juice contains more PG, it necessarily contains less VG. Therefore the throat hit or irritant qualities of nicotine, or any of the flavorings or alcohol in the juice, are not muted or smoothed. The PG isn't providing the throat hit or irritation; the VG is simply not muting it. If you use 100% PG with 0 nicotine or flavoring, you should get no irritation or throat hit. If you do, it indicates an intolerance to PG.

So if I didn't misunderstand what you said, PG is basically just used as a neutral carrier, VG acts a bit like a local anesthetic (like menthol then?) while nicotine is the only irritant that cause the throat hit (or additives, but I imagine they are not chosen deliberately for this purpose).

The kGo is exactly like your eGo. The only difference is that the kGo runs on 3.7V and the eGo is regulated at 3.4V.
The device you use has absolutely no effect on getting a burned taste. That is 100% the result of the tank systems you have been using.

So if the voltage is higher, the ato will end up by heating up more as well? That will have no impact on the burned taste? Well assuming that the different parts composing the e-cig are working properly.

 

[Chrissie]

So if I just get the Vision Ego Clearos you linked me earlier, I would not need to buy anything besides that? So it will replace both my tank and the ato with one piece?

Yes, that's all you would need Either the Vision ego's, any 510 clearos or 510 cartomisers will fit your batteries & replace both your tank & ato with one piece

 

[sailorman]

ROTFLMAO...
Her is a He

Hahaha... I struggled a minute with that. If you notice, I previously used the word "they". Somehow I had gotten the impression you were a "she". Sorry 'bout that.

 

[Anoregami]

Your battery is your e-cig. If you want an e-cig that is not itself a battery, you will have to move away from the sealed battery type of e-cig. The eGo, kGo, Riva, Vgo and similar e-cigs are nothing but sealed batteries with a switch and a connector.

If you want to avoid the situation of having an e-cig wear out, you need an e-cig that accepts separate, cylindrical lithium batteries. All batteries wear out. But if a cylindrical battery wears out, it costs just a few dollars or Euro to replace it. You don't need to replace your entire e-cig.

Think about a flashlight. Do you buy a flashlight that needs to be disposed of when the battery wears out? You probably buy a flashlight that lets you change the batteries. Look at the e-cig in the link below. It is just like an eGo, except this one accepts separate batteries and supplies 3.7V. It also has a switch that can be replaced if it fails. It has more power than an ego and lasts just as long between battery charges as an eGo or kGo or any of the sealed battery types of e-cigs.
Crystal Clear Vaping

This vendor does not ship internationally. I'm just showing you the difference between the kind of e-cig you have and the kind that will eliminate the problem of replacing your entire e-cig when the battery wears out. You won't need spare e-cigs, you just buy new batteries, as you would for your flashlight.

That would be interesting if you could get a sealed battery tube, that is really water proof (or for that matter e-juice resistant ). I think that's what has killed my 3 batteries: repeated leaks. (I did not drop them on the floor or mistreat them in any other way)

Yes, that's all you would need Either the Vision ego's, any 510 clearos or 510 cartomisers will fit your batteries & replace both your tank & ato with one piece

Ok, thank you very much Chrissie, then I'll be able to save more money than I thought I would by just re-using my e-juices

 

[sailorman]

So if I just get the Vision Ego Clearos you linked me earlier, I would not need to buy anything besides that? So it will replace both my tank and the ato with one piece?

Yes. Clearomizers and cartomizers both contain their own heating coils. The difference is only that cartomizers contain an absorbent filling material to hold the juice. Clearomizers do not. The juice in a clearomizer is held loosely and wicked to the heating element.

So if I didn't misunderstand what you said, PG is basically just used as a neutral carrier, VG acts a bit like a local anesthetic (like menthol then?) while nicotine is the only irritant that cause the throat hit (or additives, but I imagine they are not chosen deliberately for this purpose).

About PG, you are correct. It's a neutral carrier with no taste or odor of its own. I wouldn't call VG an anesthetic. It has a slightly sweet flavor, but is relatively tasteless. It is much thicker than PG as well.

Nicotine is the only component that causes throat hit. There are other additives that are used specifically to add throat hit, particularly in juices with low nicotine content. Alcohol and the type of pepper extract used in pepper spray (capiscian?) are two common ones. There are a few more. Some companies sell these additives to add to your juice for more throat hit. Some flavorings also contain high amounts of alcohol, and they may contribute a small amount to throat hit.

So if the voltage is higher, the ato will end up by heating up more as well? That will have no impact on the burned taste? Well assuming that the different parts composing the e-cig are working properly.

The voltage can have an effect on the burned taste, but the particular device it's coming from will not. If you are using the correct resistance atty or carto for the particular voltage your battery is providing, you will get no burned taste unless it's coming from an improperly designed or functioning juice delivery system.

Assuming your carto or clearo or atty is working right, your juice may taste burned if the watts being consumed by the coil are too high. This would indicate the resistance is too low, or the voltage is too high.

Most people prefer to use between 6 and 10 watts. Lighter juices, like fruit, can taste burned at a lower wattage than the darker juices, like tobacco or chocolate.

To calculate how many watts your cartomizer or clearomizer or atomizer is using, you use this formula.

Where "V" is the voltage provided by the battery..
"R" is the resistance in ohms..
"I" is the power in Watts.

V x V / R = I

With a 2.5ohm cartomizer and a 3.7V battery.

3.7 x 3.7 / 2.5 = 6.56 Watts.

That's a good number for lighter juices.

If you change the resistance to 1.5ohms.

3.7 x 3.7 / 1.5 = 9.12 watts

At that watt level, lighter or more delicate flavors may taste "washed out", or burned.
Stronger flavors might taste perfect at 9 watts. Some people like 10-12 watts or more.
That would create a hot vapor, but not necessarily a burned taste. They are not the same thing.

 

[Tadred87]

I had the same issues with my device ( 3.7volt ) I eventually made a variable voltage altoids box and now when the throat hit is strong ( some atomizers work differently ) I just dial down or dial up the voltage and that seems to work pretty well

 

[Anoregami]

Yes. Clearomizers and cartomizers both contain their own heating coils. The difference is only that cartomizers contain an absorbent filling material to hold the juice. Clearomizers do not. The juice in a clearomizer is held loosely and wicked to the heating element.

Ok, I see, hence the '2 or 3 parts e-cigs', according to the specific parts that are used

About PG, you are correct. It's a neutral carrier with no taste or odor of its own. I wouldn't call VG an anesthetic. It has a slightly sweet flavor, but is relatively tasteless. It is much thicker than PG as well.

Nicotine is the only component that causes throat hit. There are other additives that are used specifically to add throat hit, particularly in juices with low nicotine content. Alcohol and the type of pepper extract used in pepper spray (capiscian?) are two common ones. There are a few more. Some companies sell these additives to add to your juice for more throat hit. Some flavorings also contain high amounts of alcohol, and they may contribute a small amount to throat hit.

Next time I'll add some VG to my mixture and see how it feels. I didn't want to have a liquid too rich in nic as I knew it was irritant, but if I replace some PG by VG, that should make up for the increased nicotine content, right? (I'm just talking in terms of throat hit)

The voltage can have an effect on the burned taste, but the particular device it's coming from will not. If you are using the correct resistance atty or carto for the particular voltage your battery is providing, you will get no burned taste unless it's coming from an improperly designed or functioning juice delivery system.

Assuming your carto or clearo or atty is working right, your juice may taste burned if the watts being consumed by the coil are too high. This would indicate the resistance is too low, or the voltage is too high.

Most people prefer to use between 6 and 10 watts. Lighter juices, like fruit, can taste burned at a lower wattage than the darker juices, like tobacco or chocolate.

To calculate how many watts your cartomizer or clearomizer or atomizer is using, you use this formula.

Where "V" is the voltage provided by the battery..
"R" is the resistance in ohms..
"I" is the power in Watts.

V x V / R = I

With a 2.5ohm cartomizer and a 3.7V battery.

3.7 x 3.7 / 2.5 = 6.56 Watts.

That's a good number for lighter juices.

If you change the resistance to 1.5ohms.

3.7 x 3.7 / 1.5 = 9.12 watts

At that watt level, lighter or more delicate flavors may taste "washed out", or burned.
Stronger flavors might taste perfect at 9 watts. Some people like 10-12 watts or more.
That would create a hot vapor, but not necessarily a burned taste. They are not the same thing.

So the most straightforward way to play with different level of power would be to purchase a variable voltage battery then? Unless obviously that variable resistances do also exist (I've seen the former, but not the latter).


Will this eGo Mega Dual Coil Cartomiser eGo Mega Dual Coil Cartomiser fit my current battery? I'm tempted to try out this one too besides the Vision Ego V2, I've seen a few positive reviews about it.


I've also a small bottle of PEG-400 (polyethylene glycol) that I never used, can someone tell me how does it compare vs PG or VG?

 

[Anoregami]

I had the same issues with my device ( 3.7volt ) I eventually made a variable voltage altoids box and now when the throat hit is strong ( some atomizers work differently ) I just dial down or dial up the voltage and that seems to work pretty well

I don't feel comfortable enough handling a soldering iron , so I'd rather not risk to mess up with my batteries
Also I've heard of e-cigs batteries that did explode, so a home made variable voltage battery ... (don't get me wrong, I'm not saying yours is going to explode in your face). I'm just not a great fan of DIY stuff in general

 

[dragonbone]

So the most straightforward way to play with different level of power would be to purchase a variable voltage battery then? Unless obviously that variable resistances do also exist (I've seen the former, but not the latter).
Will this eGo Mega Dual Coil Cartomiser eGo Mega Dual Coil Cartomiser fit my current battery? I'm tempted to try out this one too besides the Vision Ego V2, I've seen a few positive reviews about it.
I've also a small bottle of PEG-400 (polyethylene glycol) that I never used, can someone tell me how does it compare vs PG or VG?

Hi Anor, I see many people have been helping you . I just wanted to show you a pic of my eGo's with different cartomizers and Stardust and EMDCC. By the way, not to confuse you even more, but many poeple after buying the new longer wick Vision Stardust found that the original short one was best. Oh and I LOVE my EMDCC ! My last one lasted more than 6 months and I finally threw it away, not because it was broken, but because I wanted to try a new one. To try VV, you could pick up an eGo Twist and see how you like it. I LOVE mine and want to get some more.

For DIY, since you already have the base liquid from Totally Wicked, perhaps you can try Inawera flavoring from Poland. I got some last week and they are fantastic!!! By the way, you can go to the ECF DIY section, where you can get recipes and any info regarding DIY.

 

[sailorman]

Ok, I see, hence the '2 or 3 parts e-cigs', according to the specific parts that are used

Right.
2 piece = battery+carto/clearo
3 piece = battery + atomizer + cartridge
"Cartomizer" = CARTridge + atOMIZER

Next time I'll add some VG to my mixture and see how it feels. I didn't want to have a liquid too rich in nic as I knew it was irritant, but if I replace some PG by VG, that should make up for the increased nicotine content, right? (I'm just talking in terms of throat hit)

Yes, high VG juice will have less throat hit than high PG juice, all else being equal. I make my own juice. I can't tolerate too much PG, so I use 30%PG/70%VG and 24mg. nic. I still get good throat hit. Most people who have no problem with PG use only 20-50% VG. Many people use 100% VG. A very popular juice vendor uses 100% VG and people don't complain about a lack of throat hit. So, VG doesn't eliminate throat hit, it just smooths it out to some extent.

So the most straightforward way to play with different level of power would be to purchase a variable voltage battery then? Unless obviously that variable resistances do also exist (I've seen the former, but not the latter).

Yes. There are good variable voltage e-cigs for $75 or less that take replaceable batteries and let you choose between 3V-6V. There is an eGo variable voltage model that allows selections between 3.2V and 4.8V. It is very large for the battery capacity, so for the extra $20-30, I'd get one of the 3V-6V models.

There is one model that allows you to select the wattage and adjusts the voltage automatically depending on what resistance your cartomizer is. Unfortunately, it is very expensive and always sold out.

There is also a small, coin sized device that fits inside an e-cig, on top of the battery, that does the same thing. It's only about $40, but you need a PV that uses an 18650 sized battery.

Those are variable wattage systems and, IMO, are far better than variable voltage. Cartomizers and heating coils change resistance with use. A variable wattage system compensates for those changes automatically, so you always get the power you want, regardless of the condition of the battery or the resistance of the cartomizer.

Will this eGo Mega Dual Coil Cartomiser eGo Mega Dual Coil Cartomiser fit my current battery? I'm tempted to try out this one too besides the Vision Ego V2, I've seen a few positive reviews about it.

I would avoid dual coil cartomizers with a low voltage device. The reason is that inside a 1.5ohm dual coil cartomizer, there are two 3ohm coils. The total resistance is 1.5ohms, but each coil is 3ohms. If you apply the formula for watts and assume a 3.4V ego type battery, you get the following:

3.4V x 3.4V / 3ohms = 3.85 watts per coil.

A 3.4V battery only provides 3.85 watts to a 3ohm coil. That is not enough watts for good vapor production.
The fact that you have two coils, each using 3.85 watts, does not make it any better. It only increases the quantity.
I use the analogy of a steak on a grill. Would you rather cook your steak on a 450 degree grill, or cut it in half and cook each half on separate 225 degree grills? You would be using the same amount of energy, but when you use two grills, you split it in half.

Dual coil cartomizers only really work well on batteries over 4 volts.

I've also a small bottle of PEG-400 (polyethylene glycol) that I never used, can someone tell me how does it compare vs PG or VG?

I've never used PEG-400. I've heard it's better than PG. It's not a substitute for VG. All I really know is that it's expensive.
If you want to send it to me, I'll make some juice with it and tell you how it works.

 

[dragonbone]

I would avoid dual coil cartomizers with a low voltage device. The reason is that inside a 1.5ohm dual coil cartomizer, there are two 3ohm coils. The total resistance is 1.5ohms, but each coil is 3ohms. If you apply the formula for watts and assume a 3.4V ego type battery, you get the following:

Maybe you should go to the EMDCC thread and see what they say lol! Anyway I have been using EMDCC's on my eGo's for about 6 or 7 months and they are FANTASTIC. Just saying.

By the way, have you ever used one? And if so, on what device?

 

[sailorman]

Yes, that is an eGo Twist variable voltage in Dragonbone's picture. The sixth device from the left.
Notice how long it is? It's 650mah and probably less capacity than your eGo.
It will last about 4 hours between charges.
Variable voltage devices always last less time between charges than fixed voltage devices.
But it is physically bigger than any of the other PVs with similar capacity.
There is a 1000mah model available and it is as long as your leg. (o.k., maybe not that long, but it's VERY long)

Joyetech estimates the lifespan of a 650mah eGo battery to be 4-6 months.
A variable voltage 650mah Twist will need to be charged more often and therefore will have a shorter lifespan than a regular fixed voltage 650mah eGo battery.

The Twists are all the rage right now because they are new. Wait 4-6 months and see how many of them are dead.
If you get a variable voltage with a separate battery, your battery will be larger and last longer than a disposable Twist.

 

[sailorman]

Maybe you should go to the EMDCC thread and see what they say lol! Anyway I have been using EMDCC's on my eGo's for about 6 or 7 months and they are FANTASTIC. Just saying.

By the way, have you ever used one? And if so, on what device?

Yes I have. On a 3.4V eGo clone. A Firefly from Liberty Flights. It produced lots of cool fog. If you like your vapor cool, or if you like to vape at 4 watts, you'll like the dual coils twice as much.
Take two eGos and put a 3ohm carto on both of them. Vape them at the same time. That's almost exactly what you are doing with a dual coil cartomizer. You get a slight increase over that because of some "pre-heating" the first coil does, but it's still nothing like what you would get with a 1.7ohm Resurrector carto, or even a 2ohm Boge.

You can't make energy out of thin air. There is no magic in an EMDCC. 3.4V x 3.4V / 3ohms = 3.85 Watts. No watt fairy is adding extra watts to that 3ohm coil. Period. End of story. Just saying.

BTW, I also noticed that the same people who claim to get a great vape off a DC at 3.4V are the same people who say Lavatubes are no good with DC coils because they automatically cut the voltage to 3.7V. These, no doubt, are the same people who claim to hear a fantastic difference between $300 and $3000 speaker cables. Placebo effect is a powerful thing.

 

[dragonbone]

lol!!! Sailor my man, you really hate the Twists hehe... you go on every single newbie post and convince people to buy a Provari and that the Twist is junk. WHY???

 

[sailorman]

Maybe you should go to the EMDCC thread and see what they say lol! ..

I give anecdotal evidence little credence. I've spent too much time on audiophile forums, reading threads from people who extoll the virtues of $500 isolation feet on a DVD player. I've seen long discussions about how great a little black box full of nothing, placed strategically on a wall, will make your $1,000 stereo system sound like it cost a hundred grand. I've read too many long threads about how great the Dr. Dre headphones are because he must use them in his studio, right? And besides, they're better than the iBuds that came with my mp3 player and, besides, how good can something called Sennheisers be? And, I won't even mention all the threads I could dredge up about homeopathy, astrology and psychic talk lines.

No; enthusiastic threads don't prove a thing to me when they're full of opinions that fly in the face of physics.

 

[sailorman]

lol!!! Sailor my man, you really hate the Twists hehe... you go on every single newbie post and convince people to buy a Provari and that the Twist is junk. WHY???

I never try to convince any newbie to buy a Provari. I can't stand Provangelists. Unfortunately, they are becoming eclipsed by the equally obnoxious Twist-o-philes.

I dont have anything against the Twist per se. What I object to is a couple things that are constantly overlooked and neglected when Twist-o-philes enthusiastically push them on every noob who comes down the pike.

First and formeost. The Twist is ONE battery. It's totally stupid to advocate some noob buy a Twist as a first and only PV. All the Twist-o-philes have other PVs. It never occurs to the noob the folly of having ONE battery, and the Twist-o-philes constantly neglect to mention that fact.

Secondly, since if you are going to adopt a Twist as your primary PV, you need to buy two of them. That means you will have two PVs that, together, will cost you as much as a NON-DISPOSABLE VV with more and better features, and a warranty that will still be in effect when your Twists are ready for the garbage can. Which brings me to the third point.

The Twist is huge, compared to its capacity. Not only that, but the life of a VV battery is significantly shorter than an equal sized battery on a fixed voltage device. The range of variability is only 1.6V and tops out at 4.8V., less than what is considered decent high voltage vaping. So, it's stunted by design. There is a huge difference between vaping at 5-6V and vaping at 4-5V. You don't get to do that with a Twist.

For a second PV to dabble in the concept of VV, it's just o.k.. For a primary PV, it's a bad deal, especially if you buy two of them. You'd be better to get a $30 Vari-Volt and at least have something with replaceable batteries, good run time, an LED display and a 3-6V range.

 

[X P3 Flight Engineer]

lol!!! Sailor my man, you really hate the Twists hehe... you go on every single newbie post and convince people to buy a Provari and that the Twist is junk. WHY???

Because he doesn't have one?!?!!

 

[sailorman]

Because he doesn't have one?!?!!

I don't have a Yugo either. How do you like yours?
Some people are capable of learning, deduction and reasoning.
I know a 650mah battery will die faster under the strain of VV. Why do you think they limited it to 4.8V. Picked that number out of the air perhaps?
I know there's a lot of good vaping to be done over 4.8V.
I know separate batteries can be higher quality, more powerful and longer lasting than sealed ones.
I know I don't like a disposable e-cig.
I know I like to be able to see the voltage without a microscope.
I know I like to have a battery level indicator, especially on a sealed battery when I can't just grab a spare, charged one on the way out the door.
I know that other sealed batt e-cigs don't come in pairs because the manufacturer thinks it would be a nice gesture.

That's why I don't have one and that's why I would recommend one only to someone who already had other PVs.

It's pretty funny that Dragonbone shills for the Twist to newbs with nothing else, while she has 10 PVs to choose from for backup.

What other VV do you have? How do you know what you're missing?