NY state bill banning ecigs
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They aren't trying to ban e-cigs PERIOD, they are just making laws contingent on whether the FDA is able to label e-cigs as a tobacco product or a drug. The real issue here is to stop the FDA from labeling these products as drugs and keeping them as tobacco products.
The FDA appeals to the supreme court are FAR more important than this State legislation. I urge everybody to get involved with the FDA legislation and urge them to define it as a tobacco product, no matter WHAT STATE YOU'RE IN.
On a side note, I thing the sale of e-cigs SHOULD be prohibited to minors (as any other tobacco product). This bill isn't necessarily a bad thing unless the FDA has its way and gets to call e-cigs a drug delivery system rather than a tobacco product.
The thing that gets me is hookah tobacco (shisha I believe it's called) contains the same ingredients as e-juice (PG/VG, flavorings, plus a lot of other crap including actual tobacco and liquid nicotine) and it is considered a tobacco product. It is ridiculous to say that e-juice is a drug.
i just got of the phone with Aileen gunther, assembly women sullivan co,she told me that this bill is not up for vote right now,besides she does not sopport it,she said it will most likley be placed in a package bill (no idea)right now she cant tell me when its coming up,im not very g
ood in talking to these people,i have a very hot temper when it comes to polititions,not afraid to say what needs to be said,
ood in talking to these people,i have a very hot temper when it comes to polititions,not afraid to say what needs to be said,
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There is a combined City and State cigarette tax of $4.25 per pack on all cigarettes possessed for sale or use in New York City. ($2.75 is New York State tax; $1.50 is New York City tax.)
With an estimated 4 million smokers in NY X $2.75 per pack=$11,000,000
Multiply that by 365 cause the average smoker will buy a pack a day.
Why do we still have potholes in NY???
With an estimated 4 million smokers in NY X $2.75 per pack=$11,000,000
Multiply that by 365 cause the average smoker will buy a pack a day.
Why do we still have potholes in NY???
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This is the same as the bill being being pushed by the Reps.
S7234 - NY Senate Open Legislation - - Prohibits the sale of electronic cigarettes to minors and items not defined as a tobacco product or approved by the FDA as a tobacco use cessation or harm reduction - New York State Senate
I N S E N A T E
March 24, 2010
___________
Introduced by Sen. KLEIN -- read twice and ordered printed, and when printed to be committed to the Committee on Health
AN ACT to amend the public health law, in relation to prohibiting the
sale of electronic cigarettes to minors and in relation to prohibiting
the distribution or sale of any item containing or delivering nicotine
that is not defined by law as a tobacco product or approved by the
United States food and drug administration for sale as a tobacco use
cessation or harm reduction product
TheBoogieman
S7234 - NY Senate Open Legislation - - Prohibits the sale of electronic cigarettes to minors and items not defined as a tobacco product or approved by the FDA as a tobacco use cessation or harm reduction - New York State Senate
I N S E N A T E
March 24, 2010
___________
Introduced by Sen. KLEIN -- read twice and ordered printed, and when printed to be committed to the Committee on Health
AN ACT to amend the public health law, in relation to prohibiting the
sale of electronic cigarettes to minors and in relation to prohibiting
the distribution or sale of any item containing or delivering nicotine
that is not defined by law as a tobacco product or approved by the
United States food and drug administration for sale as a tobacco use
cessation or harm reduction product
TheBoogieman
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I haven't read all 11 pages of this thread, but has anyone mentioned that they just announced that they are considering raising NY cigarette tax another dollar? Coincidence that NY is considering banning e-cigarettes at the same time as raising the tax again? Doubtful! And a tax on sugar beverages in the works as well. I'm getting really sick of this state....
I started vaping to save my health, not to save money. But that's not why I suggested taxation as a solution to keeping ecigs from being banned. You have to give the government an incentive to keep these legal. The best way to do this is to pretty much bribe them.
That's what I mean. I hope that it doesn't come to that, but if it did, I'd at least be happy that my ecigs are still legal.
It took the state of California going bankrupt to get to the point of where it is considering legalizing mariwana(misspelled on purpose). Now it looks like we are going to have a bill pretty much legalizing it because they want to tax it.
I started vaping 3 weeks ago and have not touched an analog. Im really happy getting back my life: I do not stink anymore, I can smell better and I feel better all time
and now this?
Im writing and calling next Monday for sure! I can only see that this politicians really dont care about people (their voters) but the money they can get for what? I dont know.
I can only think and this people is representing us? Theyre a bunch of ignorant fools who only want to spend the money in cases like this. They should start fighting corruption, unemployment and scams helping us, tax payers, to get better jobs and make more money instead of taking away from us the little dignity we have.
This is outrageous.
Im writing and calling next Monday for sure! I can only see that this politicians really dont care about people (their voters) but the money they can get for what? I dont know.
I can only think and this people is representing us? Theyre a bunch of ignorant fools who only want to spend the money in cases like this. They should start fighting corruption, unemployment and scams helping us, tax payers, to get better jobs and make more money instead of taking away from us the little dignity we have.
This is outrageous.
so will this effect people who already own e-cigs? will i be arrested for vaping in public. not indoors, just outside in general public like that of a normal smoker? and will this effect me making online purchases of e-cig products and accessories...?
My only experiences of situations like this one are ferrets and photography (post 9/11).
Ferrets are banned in NYC, so if you own one before the ban, you can keep him (in fact, pet stores sells food, deodorants, shampoos, etc) but you cannot buy or bring a ferret.
Regarding photography, there are laws which most of the times are misunderstood and police officers dont have a clue. For example, you are allowed to use a tripod in the street and you can take pictures of whatever you want if is visible from a public place many cops tell you not to use the tripod even if you show them the code! And sometimes, dont dare to take pictures of certain buildings
So if they ban the e-cigs, as usual, you wont be able to buy them in NY (what will happen with business is yet to be seen), then we will keep on buying from other states or overseas and most certainly, they will amend the law and wont allow USPS or any other carriers to deliver within the state as what happen with the cigarettes (hopefully some vendors wont mark the packages and we will be able to keep doing the transactions). A nasty cop could arrest you if you use one in public or just for possession; but my guess is that they wont even look for it so perhaps it will be better if your PV looks like a normal cigarette.
Think twice about analogs in NY per code, they cannot be shipped in the state, but funny, some Indian reservations can send you them via USPS in unmarked packages while other vendors cant do it.
They will go towards the route giving them more money; I wouldnt be surprised if they simply treat the VPs as analogs taxing them as high and controlling the sales which will give them the same income and in that moment, they will welcome the e-cig and magically change their minds and think theyre great and healthy just as the analogs.
Ferrets are banned in NYC, so if you own one before the ban, you can keep him (in fact, pet stores sells food, deodorants, shampoos, etc) but you cannot buy or bring a ferret.
Regarding photography, there are laws which most of the times are misunderstood and police officers dont have a clue. For example, you are allowed to use a tripod in the street and you can take pictures of whatever you want if is visible from a public place many cops tell you not to use the tripod even if you show them the code! And sometimes, dont dare to take pictures of certain buildings
So if they ban the e-cigs, as usual, you wont be able to buy them in NY (what will happen with business is yet to be seen), then we will keep on buying from other states or overseas and most certainly, they will amend the law and wont allow USPS or any other carriers to deliver within the state as what happen with the cigarettes (hopefully some vendors wont mark the packages and we will be able to keep doing the transactions). A nasty cop could arrest you if you use one in public or just for possession; but my guess is that they wont even look for it so perhaps it will be better if your PV looks like a normal cigarette.
Think twice about analogs in NY per code, they cannot be shipped in the state, but funny, some Indian reservations can send you them via USPS in unmarked packages while other vendors cant do it.
They will go towards the route giving them more money; I wouldnt be surprised if they simply treat the VPs as analogs taxing them as high and controlling the sales which will give them the same income and in that moment, they will welcome the e-cig and magically change their minds and think theyre great and healthy just as the analogs.
While I'm no fan of fatalism, the realist in me says to be prepared. I've long thought this government/society to be corrupt/shallow. To see my thoughts proven right in such a manner is highly disconcerting. That these people are willing to essentially murder their citizens for money. I will quit altogether b4 I start smoking again. They're not getting jack out of me, greedy b!@#$%ds!
I've started a new thread with the NYS Senate and Assembly Health Committee members' contact information, since both bills have been referred to committee. Please go there and make it a priority to contact these people - let's kill the bills in committee!
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...9-new-york-priority-contacts.html#post1200282
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...9-new-york-priority-contacts.html#post1200282
I gotta toss this out there: How would you feel about suggesting that New York implement a reduced harm tobacco tax? It could be worded in such a way that any tobacco product that is marketed and sold for recreational use be restricted to persons over the age of 18 (sales require identification) and a smaller (than cigarette) tax is levied on smoke-free and modified risk tobacco products.
I'm against any new taxes in NY period..but if you consider that the cigarette tax is supposedly in effect to deter NY'ers from smoking then what reasoning do they have to have an increased sales tax on a product that's to be used as a healthy alternative to smoking, if not a means of quitting? As far as I'm concerned they have the right to tax sales of nicotine juice sold within the state and that's it. We're already one of the highest taxed states in the US and I'm not going to grease any palms by willingly giving them more.
As a rule, I would agree that "No Tax" > "Tax", but in this case, would it not be worth an extra $1 per bottle of e-liquid to be able to purchase it in a child safe container at your local convenience store? Heck, wouldn't it be worth the extra cost just to ensure the continued availability of reduced risk recreational tobacco products?
I'm not just talking about throwing the political dogs a bone, I'm talking about real proactivity. Rather than trying to fight against bills that define e-cigs as drugs, why aren't we working to pass a bill that defines e-cigs as recreational tobacco products? I think that winning means beating the "antis" at their own game: The Game is politics and it involves exceptionally dirty hands.
These law makers have nothing better to do than make more laws, its ridiculous! This probably has something to do with the big drug companies wanting no competition to their gum and prescription medicines to quit smoking. I use to be in the nutraceutical business selling weight loss products, unfortunately people died from the use of fat burners with ephedra but their back on the market after being banned. I've never heard of anyone dying from nicotine but its a gimmie that its should be banned to minors. For all the Tri State people here that see the graphic commercials about smoking you would think us Vapors would be alright.
I guess it might be a problem for me cuz I just started selling the 510.
I guess it might be a problem for me cuz I just started selling the 510.
at first, $10.00 a bottle before you know it. Once the foots in the door, eh.
True...but if you want e-cigarettes to be treated like tobacco products, you need to be ready to face the other side of that sword. How much are the other smoke-free tobacco products being taxed in New York?
EDIT: I found it myself here: http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/1858.html New York is 37% of wholesale price. While I completely agree that tobacco products that reduce risk by eliminating smoke should not be subject to prohibitive "sin tax" like the 65% of wholesale we pay here in Oregon, it certainly seems reasonable to me that a tax be applied to recreational use tobacco products like the electronic cigarette. The "sneaky underbelly" is that if you push for a reasonable tax on recreational smoke-free tobacco products like those that are marketed as electronic cigarettes, you have effectively made it the law of the land that electronic cigarettes are and can be marketed as a recreational tobacco product subject to the existing underage usage restrictions.
Although I personally think that 35% of wholesale cost might be reasonable, perhaps it could be introduced as a Tax Reduction on reduced risk tobacco products. New legislation could reduce the tax rate on products that are shown to reduce the risk of disease, but by bringing more products under the umbrella the financial impact would be mitigated--in other words, the tax on e-cigs, snus, and dissolvables would be lower than traditional tobacco products, but the fact that new products would now be taxed would make up the difference. This is easily justified by the fact that traditional tobacco consumers won't be alive to keep paying there fair share of the tax burden so their products get taxed at a higher rate--those of us who reduce our risk by switching to a smoke-free alternative have the advantage of lower tobacco taxes because we're going to be around to keep paying for it over a longer term.
Additionally or alternately, perhaps we could consider a motion to allow public businesses and bars to accomodate smoke-free tobacco usage. Not everyone customer wants to see you spit, chew, or expel vapor that looks like smoke and can be a minor irritant for some people, but some businesses would appreciate the opportunity to keep their customers who use tobacco and may wish to self designate accordingly.
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Thulium, I would totally agree with you.. but sadly this particular state has been the perfect example of "over doing" the taxation to "help" people. If what you propose could be achieved. But telling them "add one dollar to the bottle" will mean that each 5ml bottle will cost $20 in NYS and $25 in NYC.
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