NY state bill banning ecigs

[dragonpuff]

Here the price of cigarettes is anywhere from $6 to $8 per pack depending on the brand. That includes 8% sales tax (4% from state + 4% from county).

I've never been to NYC, but i heard cigs are upwards of $10 there

 

[Jimi Mack]

Living out on Long Island, just outside the city limits I can tell you they are at least $8.00 a pack and the tax is more than 8%. In the city they easily get $10.00 a pack. Hell a carton straight out in my area is at least $75.00.

 

[Haytoni]

Title doesn't say the bill only wants to ban the sale of ecigs to minors, but then stuff like this pops up:

I don't get it. Is it for an outright ban on sales, or just a ban on sales to minors?

I read it as a ban on sales to minors.

 

[k9frog]

up here in sullivan co ny, a pack of cigs the last time i smoke,7.25 for the usa gold ,plus tax-8% DAM !!!!

 

[ChipCurtis]

I read it as a ban on sales to minors.

Then you haven't read the bill carefully. Get past the stuff in the opening statements/paragraphs where it emphasizes banning sales to minors. Later on in the text it actually states an outright ban on sales, using watered-down or "unnoticeable" language.

NY, MD and IL are trying the same trick that Sen. Corbett tried in CA but failed: Front-load the bill with language about "protecting the children" so that hopefully most people won't read the detail. Then "sneak in" language about an outright ban deep in the bill's text.

 

[Posidon]

I just got this e-mail this morning from Joel. M. Miller NYS Assemblyman.

Dear Mr. XXXX:



This is in response to your email regarding electronic cigarettes. Thank you for taking the time to write and advise me of your views.



As a healthcare professional myself, I find that I am unable to support legislation allowing the sale of this type of product. The health effects of using electronic cigarettes are currently unknown.



Propylene glycol, a liquid which is used in antifreeze, is the substance vaporized to produce artificial smoke or fog in theatrical productions. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has classified it as an additive that is “generally recognized as safe” for use in food. But when asked whether inhaling it was safe Director of the Nicotine Dependence Center at the Mayo Clinic said “I don’t think so.”



In May 2009, the US FDA Division of Pharmaceutical Analysis tested the contents of cartridges and several substances were detected raising further concerns over inconsistent amounts of vapor components being inhaled. In July 2009 the FDA issued a press release stating that a laboratory analysis of electronic cigarette samples found that they contain carcinogens and toxic chemicals and continued discouraging the use of electronic cigarettes and repeated previously stated concerns that electronic cigarettes may be marketed to young people and lack appropriate warnings. Other health organizations are concerned that electronic smoking products may pose risks such as nicotine poisoning and addiction.



In January 2010, a federal judge ordered the FDA to stop blocking the importation of electronic cigarettes from China, and indicated that the devices should be regulated as tobacco products, rather than drug or medical devices. The judge’s reasoning was that e-cigarettes were not marked as medical devices to help smokers quit, but rather as safer substitutes to give users the “nicotine hit that smokers crave.”



To date, no one is able to say whether these electronic cigarettes are safe. In fact, these could be even worse than regular cigarettes. Addiction could be at the same level or even greater and lack of regulation brings this type of product into the hands of minors. There are already more adolescents than children smoking and the last thing we need to do is encourage them to smoke even more.



If you have information that would dispute these claims please forward it to my office so I may review it.



In the meantime, if either my staff or I can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us at 845-463-1635 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting..............845-463-1635......end_of_the_skype_highlighting or via email at millerj@assembly.state.ny.us.



Thank you again for writing.



Sincerely,





Joel M. Miller

Member of Assembly

102nd Assembly District



JMM/klp

 

[Thyestean]

So basically he will believe anything he reads that comes from someone with an "official" title.

I did get a laugh out of his mistake though...

There are already more adolescents than children smoking and the last thing we need to do is encourage them to smoke even more.

 

[Oliver]

So a quote from the Mayo clinic and the dodgy study by the FDA are good enough for this legislator.

Wow, we really have the top minds in the political class these days, don't we?

 

[jasezero]

What a douche...first off, isnt ethelyne/diethelyne glycol in antifreeze, not propelyne glycol? Plus, it's used a food additive, in Snus (which is currently sold right next to cigarettes), and a bunch of other legal items?

Just because it hasnt been proven its safe, doesnt mean that it is automatically more dangerous...

So frustrating to deal with this crap...

 

[jasezero]

Can't delete my second post...oops sorry guys =/

at least i can edit it...

 

[StormFinch]

I just got this e-mail this morning from Joel. M. Miller NYS Assemblyman.

Posidon if you feel up to sending this guy refuting evidence by all means do so. If you need help, PM it to one of the CASAA members and they should have all the info readily available. I'm having a day or I'd be after it. Can't string two paragraphs together right now.

 

[Katya]

"I don't think so."

Well, that sounds scientific enough.

 

[aubergine]

I read it as a ban on sales to minors.

No. That question was raised during the Assembly "discussion", and Rosenthal, the bill's sponsor, emphatically stated that it was a total ban, for all. The bill was obviously crafted to be misleading if merely skimmed.

 

[beebopnjazz]

Am I missing something here? The FDA found diethylene glycol in one sample - NOT Propylene glycol - enlighten me please.

 

[beebopnjazz]

Propylene glycol is in Astelin - which my 3 year old granddaughter has squirted up her nose everyday....tell me that stuff isn't safe.....this is incredible.

 

[aubergine]

Just want to stop for a moment and thank everyone here who's worked so consistently and hard to stay well-informed, and keep all of us well-informed, on what's happening and what we might best do. The NY effort may fail, but if it weren't for you guys, there'd not even be a fight. I work more hours than anyone should just now, and the lists and updates and clarifications have been a tremendous help re participating in the effort. You are terrific.

 

[Our House]

Propylene glycol is in Astelin - which my 3 year old granddaughter has squirted up her nose everyday....tell me that stuff isn't safe.....this is incredible.

They want the public to believe that PG is safe in everything except for ecigs. Funny thing about lying thieving politicians...eventually they all run against their worst enemy -- "the truth."

 

[PlanetScribbles]

Joel. M. Miller, come November you will be the weakest link. GOODBYE.
Another A.H. for the chop.

 

[kristin]

This is in response to your email regarding electronic cigarettes. Thank you for taking the time to write and advise me of your views.

As a healthcare professional myself, I find that I am unable to support legislation allowing the sale of this type of product. The health effects of using electronic cigarettes are currently unknown.

So, they don't know the health effects of no longer inhaling toxic levels of tar, ash, carbon monoxide, arsenic, amonia (and a few thousand other chemicals) and 56 carcinogens?

Wait...isn't that called "quitting smoking?" So, does that mean we don't know the health effects of quitting smoking??

Propylene glycol, a liquid which is used in antifreeze, is the substance vaporized to produce artificial smoke or fog in theatrical productions. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has classified it as an additive that is “generally recognized as safe” for use in food. But when asked whether inhaling it was safe Director of the Nicotine Dependence Center at the Mayo Clinic said “I don’t think so.”

Propylene glycol is used in antifreeze to MAKE IT LESS TOXIC FOR PETS AND CHILDREN.

How did the Director of the Nicotine Dependence Center at the Mayo Clinic become an expert on Propylene Glycol? Has he researched it? Tested it?

By the way, the EPA - which DOES have experience with PG - has found no major cause for concern with exposure to firemen, stage workers and airline workers who regularly are exposed to PG fog.

So...if it's used in theatrical productions, doesn't that mean that actors and stage workers are regularly inhaling it??

In May 2009, the US FDA Division of Pharmaceutical Analysis tested the contents of cartridges and several substances were detected raising further concerns over inconsistent amounts of vapor components being inhaled. In July 2009 the FDA issued a press release stating that a laboratory analysis of electronic cigarette samples found that they contain carcinogens and toxic chemicals and continued discouraging the use of electronic cigarettes and repeated previously stated concerns that electronic cigarettes may be marketed to young people and lack appropriate warnings. Other health organizations are concerned that electronic smoking products may pose risks such as nicotine poisoning and addiction.

The same levels of carcinogens as found in a Nicoderm patch. Are they going to call for the patch to be banned then??

They found a chemical which COULD be toxic in high enough amounts, but they did NOT find toxic levels of ANY chemical!

Well, of course. If we weren't already addicted to nicotine, we wouldn't have started using them!! On the other hand, the Virginia Commonwealth University study determined that they didn't deliver nicotine at the same levels as NRTs or tobacco smoking anyhow.

In January 2010, a federal judge ordered the FDA to stop blocking the importation of electronic cigarettes from China, and indicated that the devices should be regulated as tobacco products, rather than drug or medical devices. The judge’s reasoning was that e-cigarettes were not marked as medical devices to help smokers quit, but rather as safer substitutes to give users the “nicotine hit that smokers crave.”

That's the point. You aren't supposed to compare these to quitting smoking, you're supposed to compare these to SMOKING.

To date, no one is able to say whether these electronic cigarettes are safe. In fact, these could be even worse than regular cigarettes.

How anyone with more than two brain cells in their head could say that is amazing. Beside the fact that it's a lie.

There have been several lab tests that show electronic cigarettes have no more carcinogens or toxins than FDA-approved Nicoderm patches. Not to mention the fact that there has been no serious illness or injury attributed to electronic cigarette use in the five years it's been on the world market and twoi years in the U.s.

Addiction could be at the same level or even greater and lack of regulation brings this type of product into the hands of minors. There are already more adolescents than children smoking and the last thing we need to do is encourage them to smoke even more.

IT'S NOT SMOKING. Aside from that, there is no evidence that children (or adolescents) are purchasing electronic cigarettes. There is plenty of evidence, however, that they are buying traditional cigarettes!

If you have information that would dispute these claims please forward it to my office so I may review it.

Sure! Look at the actual FDA report instead of it's press release. See any toxic levels of chemicals listed there? NO. See diethylene glycol listed in the other 17 cartridges? NO. See any toxic levels of DEG? NO. See any other potentially toxic chemicals OTHER than the tiny bit of DEG in one cartridge? NO. Do you see any of the 4,000 toxins found in tobacco cigarette smoke? NO. Can you determine from the report if the carcinogens found are HUMAN carcinogens? NO. Can you tell if there are dangerous LEVELS of those carcinogens? NO. Does the report state that the levels of carcinogens are even high enough to be measured accurately? NO.

Why didn't the FDA tell us that there are ACCEPTABLE levels of carcinogens, such as those found in the FDA-approved patch? Why didn't they point out that they didn't find anything worse than that tiny amount of DEG?

After reviewing the FDA report, check out the completed study from Health New Zealand, which actually revealed that the ecigarettes had levels of chemicals and carginogens comparable to FDA-approved NRTs and which concluded they were not only safe for human use, they were 13,000 times safer than smoking tobacco cigarettes: http://www.healthnz.co.nz/ecigarette.htm

Now that I've shown you ecigarettes are better for smokers than tobacco cigarettes, where is YOUR actual proof (not press releases and hearsay) that they aren't?

 

[Katya]

Kristin, you're worth your weight in gold. But maybe you should have used bigger size font?

They don't want to see the truth. I just can't, for the life of me, understand why. Are they all stupid or crooked? Or both?