obamacare and vaping?

[ClippinWings]

Just heard that the budget for the website was approx 100 million dollars but it actually costs approx 700 million dollars. I'm a computer programmer...I don't know about you but if I'm 2x over budget I'm getting my ... royally chewed and drilled with questions as to why. If I was 3x over budget I'd be canned. The contracted company is 7x over budget and the website isn't even fully functional. I wonder when a company contracts with the government does it just keep going or does someone have to continue to approve these over budget expenses. Sorry off topic again but had to give a little rant from what I heard on radio on car ride home.

I'm a web developer.. have been since 1993... my comment?

LOL

seriously, i literally laughed out loud...

No website costs $100,000,000.00, let alone $700,000,000.00

That's just crazy numbers.

I could assemble a team of 100, at competitive pay, and finish this site in under 1 year for $10,000,000.00 and that even sounds ridiculous to me... Realistically, even dealing with Hosting and bandwidth this is at most a $1,000,000.00 job.

 

[Mohamed]

CGI Group Inc. Was the company contracted to do the website...I wonder what ties they had to get that bid? Apparently it's a Canadian based business. Maybe they had expertise in building a health care website in Canada but would have been nice to at least spend the tax payer money on American employees. Don't even know what to think about that. Nothing against you Canadian's Ehh'. I love the movie Strange Brew.

 

[rothenbj]

CGI Group Inc. Was the company contracted to do the website...I wonder what ties they had to get that bid? Apparently it's a Canadian based business. Maybe they had expertise in building a health care website in Canada but would have been nice to at least spend the tax payer money on American employees. Don't even know what to think about that. Nothing against you Canadian's Ehh'. I love the movie Strange Brew.

Was this part of Obama's plan to kick start the American economy, sending $700m to Canadian workers?

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

Was this part of Obama's plan to kick start the American economy, sending $700m to Canadian workers?

too big to fail

 

[BuGlen]

Just heard that the budget for the website was approx 100 million dollars but it actually costs approx 700 million dollars. I'm a computer programmer...I don't know about you but if I'm 2x over budget I'm getting my ... royally chewed and drilled with questions as to why. If I was 3x over budget I'd be canned. The contracted company is 7x over budget and the website isn't even fully functional. I wonder when a company contracts with the government does it just keep going or does someone have to continue to approve these over budget expenses. Sorry off topic again but had to give a little rant from what I heard on radio on car ride home.

Can you post a link to the source for this information? I'd like to read up on where they're getting these figures. Thanks!

 

[progg]

I have relatives in Texas. They insist that the illegals coming here to have their babies and then moving back to Mexico is crazy and we need to stop it. Thing is, it would take a Constitutional Amendment to change it. The fence thing doesn't work...particularly if they are "just visiting relatives for a few days". And that's just the births issue.

As to the poor...there's a gap. The whole thing could have been a different model, but he couldn't sell it through congress. THAT is the problem. Sabotage.

Regarding the highlighted (by me) above -- The original intent of the 14^th Amendment has been misconstrued. It was intended to protect the citizenship rights of African Americans. So it shouldn't require a Constitutional Amendment to a Constitutional Amendment. It would require honesty.

In regards to illegal aliens - In 1866, Senator Jacob Howard clearly spelled out the intent of the 14^th Amendment by stating:



"Every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country."

A Century of Lawmaking for a New Nation: U.S. Congressional Documents and Debates, 1774 - 1875

^^middle column under the heading 'Reconstruction'.

 

[AttyPops]

I'm a web developer.. have been since 1993... my comment?

LOL

seriously, i literally laughed out loud...

No website costs $100,000,000.00, let alone $700,000,000.00

That's just crazy numbers.

I could assemble a team of 100, at competitive pay, and finish this site in under 1 year for $10,000,000.00 and that even sounds ridiculous to me... Realistically, even dealing with Hosting and bandwidth this is at most a $1,000,000.00 job.

You completely pulled those #'s out of your posterior. The CDN costs alone, and hosting, and backup, and cloud services for a national system like that is huge. Not as big as, say, google. But huge.

And you're assuming full specs. Don't forget the design phase and the creation of the specs. And reviews. And scope changes later as congress makes changes. And 50 state severs. And coordination/grants for 50 state I.T. departments. And support for the states as they implement stuff. And the costs of the local "helpers" in each city, and their training on the system. And any IT training that happens (ACA specific info, not computer languages or whatnot). Testing. Commercials and public service announcements about the site. Printing of manuals (yes, probably some paper). Coordination and support with all the insurance companies involved.

Bet there's a lot of costs we're not considering here. It's always easy to say "I could name that tune in ____ notes." But composing it is tougher. And I admit those are just examples of things you're probably not considering. I made them up.

That's not to say I consider the 700 mil reasonable. Only that we have no idea what's included in that #

 

[AttyPops]

Regarding the highlighted (by me) above -- The original intent of the 14^th Amendment has been misconstrued. It was intended to protect the citizenship rights of African Americans. So it shouldn't require a Constitutional Amendment to a Constitutional Amendment. It would require honesty.

In regards to illegal aliens - In 1866, Senator Jacob Howard clearly spelled out the intent of the 14^th Amendment by stating:



"Every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country."

A Century of Lawmaking for a New Nation: U.S. Congressional Documents and Debates, 1774 - 1875

^^middle column under the heading 'Reconstruction'.

All well and good, except I don't think that's the prevailing view. Just his. Didn't the Supreme Court rule on this? THAT is what I want to see. Not some 1866 opinion by one senator.

 

[Mohamed]

Can you post a link to the source for this information? I'd like to read up on where they're getting these figures. Thanks!

I heard on an AM radio station forget which one.

$93M ObamaCare website may face months of glitches, experts warn | Fox News
According to that the budget was 93 million which is close to the 100 million they stated on the radio.

http://rt.com/usa/obamacare-websites-cost-millions-002/
According to that site 500 million although radio station I was listening to stated 700 million.

I'd be curious myself if anyone has some actual facts on the data...sorry I was just regurgitating what I heard on the radio on the car ride home from work yesterday. Think it was AM 1040 here in the midwest.

Might have been 98.3 FM as well. I'll try to find exact figures if I can.

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

I think Jay Leno hit this one out of the park or maybe political satire is just so darn easy these days

Laughable: Jay Leno Thrashes ObamaCare, Shutdown, Boehner, Pretty Much Everyone... | Independent Journal Review

 

[Fulgurant]

Regarding the highlighted (by me) above -- The original intent of the 14^th Amendment has been misconstrued. It was intended to protect the citizenship rights of African Americans. So it shouldn't require a Constitutional Amendment to a Constitutional Amendment. It would require honesty.

With all due respect to my friends on the left, anyone who can say with a straight face that a fence "doesn't work," and that therefore one shouldn't be built, isn't prepared to be honest on this issue. "A front door on my house won't prevent a determined burglar; therefore my house should be open!" The reasoning is absurd on its face, and yet intelligent people trot it out all the time. The bottom line is that no singular prevention mechanism should be expected to deliver a 100% success rate on its own. It's an impossible standard. What we do know is that a fence would deter some people from entering this country illegally; it would also likely slow down and/or bottleneck some of the more determined tresspassers enough to allow the border patrol to do the rest.

And yeah, Mohamed's right: the widespread and decades' long non-enforcement of this nation's immigration laws is very much akin to Congress' current attempt to defund Obamacare.

Your post is absolutely spot-on. It's also worth pointing out that American citizens were not entitled to substantial material benefits back when the 14th Amendment was drafted. It's one thing to have an open-door policy when your country only offers opportunity; it's distinctly different to have an open-door policy when your country owes thousands of dollars worth of free stuff to every citizen. So even if the original purpose of the 14th Amendment were to allow any pregnant woman who enters the country, legally or not, to acquire citizenship for her children (which is a willfully fanciful interpretation), the essential character of that transaction has changed drastically, and quite frankly, we can't afford it.

 

[Mohamed]

Government paid $93.7 million to tech firm that built ObamaCare website | United Liberty | Free Market - Individual Liberty - Limited Government
93 million budget and 634 million cost...although it's unclear as to how much was spent on website. I assume radio station was rounding their numbers.

Although it's still unclear on actual costs. It appears that 93 million budget is what is confirmed for sure. It's the actual amount of spending that is unconfirmed at this point.

 

[Mohamed]

either way 5x, 6x, or 7x over budget is a lot to be over budget...no matter what industry you are in.

 

[AttyPops]

With all due respect to my friends on the left, anyone who can say with a straight face that a fence "doesn't work," and that therefore one shouldn't be built, isn't prepared to be honest on this issue. "A front door on my house won't prevent a determined burglar; therefore my house should be open!" The reasoning is absurd on its face, and yet intelligent people trot it out all the time. The bottom line is that no singular prevention mechanism should be expected to deliver a 100% success rate on its own. It's an impossible standard. What we do know is that a fence would deter some people from entering this country illegally; it would also likely slow down and/or bottleneck some of the more determined tresspassers enough to allow the border patrol to do the rest.

And yeah, Mohamed's right: the widespread and decades' long non-enforcement of this nation's immigration laws is very much akin to Congress' current attempt to defund Obamacare.

Your post is absolutely spot-on. It's also worth pointing out that American citizens were not entitled to substantial material benefits back when the 14th Amendment was drafted. It's one thing to have an open-door policy when your country only offers opportunity; it's distinctly different to have an open-door policy when your country owes thousands of dollars worth of free stuff to every citizen. So even if the original purpose of the 14th Amendment were to allow any pregnant woman who enters the country, legally or not, to acquire citizenship for her children (which is a willfully fanciful interpretation), the essential character of that transaction has changed drastically, and quite frankly, we can't afford it.

Come on. Learn about cost/benefit ratios. And include on-going maintenance costs and effectiveness. Besides, as I noted with the comment, people VISIT when they have babies. Visit relatives. Through the border crossing. Legit. So a fence is irrelevant.

And I'm not passing judgement one way or the other. Just replying to the other comment.

 

[progg]

All well and good, except I don't think that's the prevailing view. Just his. Didn't the Supreme Court rule on this? THAT is what I want to see. Not some 1866 opinion by one senator.

See -- "Slaughter-House cases", "Elk v.Wilkins case" and "Wong Kim Ark case" ... The Wong Kim Ark case is often used as a Supreme Court decision 'nod' to automatic citizenship but Mr. Ark's parents were not illegally domiciled in the USA.

(sorry for going off-topic OP, I thought it would interest some)

 

[Mohamed]

Come on. Learn about cost/benefit ratios. And include on-going maintenance costs and effectiveness. Besides, as I noted with the comment, people VISIT when they have babies. Visit relatives. Through the boarder crossing. Legit. So a fence is irrelevant.

And I'm not passing judgement one way or the other. Just replying to the other comment.

In all fairness they would have to have a passport at this point in time. When I was younger we could travel to and fro from US and Canada with no passport...not the case anymore. That would at least require an illegal alien (I don't like that term) to at least plan the venture ahead of time.

Not just pop up on the hospitals door step demanding free treatment.

 

[AttyPops]

lol. I said "boarder crossing" rather than "border crossing". In that context, it's funny.

Edited the above.

 

[Mohamed]

I'm also not a woman but I never travel to another country and demand free treatment for anything. I worked hard for where I am today. I WANT to pay my own way through and not DEMAND that a country provides me everything.

I was brought here very young and raised by an uncle and not once was I taught to take from the system. Always provide for yourself; save for emergencies; save for your own retirement; be a productive citizen. I had to push myself further than most to be comfortable...and I'm proud of that.

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

Maybe they should have just put 0bamacare registration on Facebook, like to sign up, share to opt-out...at least you could have a pretty good idea who to "unfriend" in a hurry and hey...they handle tens of millions of hits a day

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

lol. I said "boarder crossing" rather than "border crossing". In that context, it's funny.

Edited the above.

that's funny...

Or is it

Hey look...a fence...paid for by "private" donations...not that it's funded by the government or anything because it's law or somethin'
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-109hr6061enr/pdf/BILLS-109hr6061enr.pdf