obamacare and vaping?

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patkin

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Nov 6, 2012
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"question number 6 asks if you "use tobacoo"

The answer is NO, I do not use tobacco. That's an honest, straight forward, answer. If they, instead, asked if I use nicotine that would be different. If they have a problem with that based on blood work, bring on the lawyers.who would insist they say what they mean if they're going to exact anything punitive. If they change the language then "nicotine" that would then include BP cessation products.
 

Fulgurant

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Come on. Learn about cost/benefit ratios. And include on-going maintenance costs and effectiveness. Besides, as I noted with the comment, people VISIT when they have babies. Visit relatives. Through the boarder crossing. Legit. So a fence is irrelevant.

And I'm not passing judgement one way or the other. Just replying to the other comment.

You're saying it's self-evident that building and maintaining a fence would cost more than letting millions of people across the border every year more-or-less uncontested. I disagree. If the only rebuttal you're prepared to give is the content-free dismissal quoted above, then I'm afraid we're at an impasse. Feel free to consider me an ignoramus; I frankly don't care.

When people VISIT legally, that's one thing: there is presumably some official reasoning at work with respect to whether or not to allow a woman who is about to give birth across the border. But we all know that not all of the people we're discussing are here legally. A lot of them either snuck across the border, or they significantly overstayed the legally sanctioned period of their visit. And if you really think that the purpose of the 14th Amendment was to allow tourist-birth citizenship, and not to address the aftermath of the Civil War, then I invite you to read the full text:

AMENDMENT XIV

Passed by Congress June 13, 1866. Ratified July 9, 1868.

Note: Article I, section 2, of the Constitution was modified by section 2 of the 14th amendment.

Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 2.
Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age,* and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

Section 3.
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4.
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5.
The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

*Changed by section 1 of the 26th amendment.
 

Fulgurant

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"question number 6 asks if you "use tobacoo"

The answer is NO, I do not use tobacco. That's an honest, straight forward, answer. If they, instead, asked if I use nicotine that would be different. If they have a problem with that based on blood work, bring on the lawyers.who would insist they say what they mean if they're going to exact anything punitive. If they change the language then "nicotine" that would then include BP cessation products.

If you're willing to fight if they (insurance providers) make an issue of it, then more power to you. Most people probably aren't willing, though.
 

Fulgurant

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Maybe they should have just put 0bamacare registration on Facebook, like to sign up, share to opt-out...at least you could have a pretty good idea who to "unfriend" in a hurry and hey...they handle tens of millions of hits a day

Heh, if the government required me to sign up for Facebook I think I really would move away. ;)
 

Fulgurant

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Is that not the same as requiring all of your medical records be in a centralized government database?

It was a joke. :) Facebook's sort of a pet peeve, but then I'm probably an oddball. These pigs certainly think I am!
facebook-pigs.jpg
 

Luisa

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I have relatives in Texas. They insist that the illegals coming here to have their babies and then moving back to Mexico is crazy and we need to stop it. Thing is, it would take a Constitutional Amendment to change it. The fence thing doesn't work...particularly if they are "just visiting relatives for a few days". And that's just the births issue.

As to the poor...there's a gap. The whole thing could have been a different model, but he couldn't sell it through congress. THAT is the problem. Sabotage.
Couldn't sell it through Congress? I doubt anyone in Congress had time or even bothered to read the bill. It was going to pass as it was written. The Senate Rule on having a super majority--60 votes--was ignored and Harry Reid deemed it had passed with 59 votes. Do remember Nancy Pelosi famously said "You have to pass it to know what is in it." That is what happened and now we know!
 

WarHawk-AVG

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Couldn't sell it through Congress? I doubt anyone in Congress had time or even bothered to read the bill. It was going to pass as it was written. The Senate Rule on having a super majority--60 votes--was ignored and Harry Reid deemed it had passed with 59 votes. Do remember Nancy Pelosi famously said "You have to pass it to know what is in it." That is what happened and now we know!
at 1am on Christmas eve 2009...1am...like a thief in the night
 

Danoman

Moved On
Oct 11, 2013
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I've absolutely HAD it up to ^ with this country and the direction they have taken. Rep/Dem... doesn't matter anymore. They are all on the same side and just play theater to give the 'illusion' they have our backs. Ugh, many, MANY stupid and ill-informed people in this nation. Welcome to America, the home of socialism and Dictator and Chief. How is it we can go from where we were 20 years ago to this... SMH
 

Danoman

Moved On
Oct 11, 2013
261
235
Anniston, Al, USA
I've absolutely HAD it up to ^ with this country and the direction they have taken. Rep/Dem... doesn't matter anymore. They are all on the same side and just play theater to give the 'illusion' they have our backs. Ugh, many, MANY stupid and ill-informed people in this nation. Welcome to America, the home of socialism and Dictator and Chief. How is it we can go from where we were 20 years ago to this... SMH

Sorry... my fingers just wouldn't quit. (bad, BAD fingers...) Hahahaha...
 

DC2

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I'm also not a woman but I never travel to another country and demand free treatment for anything. I worked hard for where I am today. I WANT to pay my own way through and not DEMAND that a country provides me everything.

I was brought here very young and raised by an uncle and not once was I taught to take from the system. Always provide for yourself; save for emergencies; save for your own retirement; be a productive citizen. I had to push myself further than most to be comfortable...and I'm proud of that.
Once upon a time people like you are what made this country great.
:thumb:
 

DC2

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The answer is NO, I do not use tobacco. That's an honest, straight forward, answer. If they, instead, asked if I use nicotine that would be different. If they have a problem with that based on blood work, bring on the lawyers.who would insist they say what they mean if they're going to exact anything punitive. If they change the language then "nicotine" that would then include BP cessation products.
If only that were true...

FDA approved smoking cessation products are okay.
Because, well, they just are.

I mean, after all they are government approved.
 

AttyPops

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Couldn't sell it through Congress? I doubt anyone in Congress had time or even bothered to read the bill. It was going to pass as it was written. The Senate Rule on having a super majority--60 votes--was ignored and Harry Reid deemed it had passed with 59 votes. Do remember Nancy Pelosi famously said "You have to pass it to know what is in it." That is what happened and now we know!
I think they proposed a simple single-payer system first.
And/Or "medicare for everyone". Other solutions too.
They couldn't sell them.

So I wasn't even talking about the current ACA. I was talking about other possible solutions that didn't sell. What we got was the best we could put through the "resistance". Kinda like trying to run a 3.7 volt e-cig on a 1000 ohm coil (too much resistance).

You're saying it's self-evident that building and maintaining a fence would cost more than letting millions of people across the border every year more-or-less uncontested. I disagree. If the only rebuttal you're prepared to give is the content-free dismissal quoted above, then I'm afraid we're at an impasse. Feel free to consider me an ignoramus; I frankly don't care.
.....snip

I by no means called you anything negative, let alone ignorant. I do think that (and was direct/terse about my thinking) a fence just isn't effective. There's not enough benefit to it unless you man it with armed guards every 1/4 mile 24/7. Otherwise you spend all your time repairing it. That picture with the ramp was hilarious. Then there's tunnels. Holes. Etc.

Besides, you could spend all your $$$$ building a fence and then they just use boats and go up the gulf or whatever. Then there's the whole Canadian boarder. It's easier for them to change routes than for us to build fences.

The Border Fence: Horrible Deal At Cost Up To $40,000 Per Illegal Immigrant Apprehended (Forbes)
 

WarHawk-AVG

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I think they proposed a simple single-payer system first.
And/Or "medicare for everyone". Other solutions too.
They couldn't sell them.

So I wasn't even talking about the current ACA. I was talking about other possible solutions that didn't sell. What we got was the best we could put through the "resistance". Kinda like trying to run a 3.7 volt e-cig on a 1000 ohm coil (too much resistance).



I by no means called you anything negative, let alone ignorant. I do think that (and was direct/terse about my thinking) a fence just isn't effective. There's not enough benefit to it unless you man it with armed guards every 1/4 mile 24/7. Otherwise you spend all your time repairing it. That picture with the ramp was hilarious. Then there's tunnels. Holes. Etc.

Besides, you could spend all your $$$$ building a fence and then they just use boats and go up the gulf or whatever. Then there's the whole Canadian boarder. It's easier for them to change routes than for us to build fences.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/richard...p-to-40000-per-illegal-immigrant-apprehended/
agreed...remove the incentive to just come here and leech off the system

I know I know...but that's inhuman

People come here on work vistas all the time but stay...they left a family back home, work here usually under the table and send that money home, time to let them figure out it's time to go home, stop letting illegals work here, would solve some of the "I can't find work" problem and some of the "there are millions of people without healthcare" (how would they even register if they didn't have a SSI number for tax purposes anyway) Them coming here to try and better their lives but only to have the other half back there is splitting up the families...they come here to get money to send home more often than not, don't care about becoming citizens, they want our "freedoms" because where they came from is usually more messed up than here...and yes we have ALOT of problems here but it's still one of the best places to go for "opportunity" to get up and get it yourself...as of late...those opportunities are getting more and more restricted and controlled...so people take their business elsewhere

healthcare needs to be fixed, insurance needs to be fixed...I don't know how exactly...but having the government force us to buy something is not right...that's called tyranny, too much laws and lawyers, there should be a minimal set of rules, taxes, and regulations the states can handle in house stuff but if the government would get out of the way and let people buy insurance themselves wherever across state lines, whatever the competition alone would drive prices down...ask doctors to charge "cash only" prices...don't force them...ask them there is a guy up north doing just that, and doing very well I believe

http://therightscoop.com/no-more-insurance-doctors-moving-to-cash-only-model-and-they-love-it/
Cash-only doctors abandon the insurance system - Jun. 11, 2013

The system can fix itself...it got screwed up in the first place when government started "controlling"

I'm not say, ok fair game...operate how you want, charge what you want, use whatever drugs you can find...blah blah...I am saying if our government would let it's death grip of control over the people and go back to dealing with the states and let the states handle in house issues I truly believe the system could fix itself...if we keep going the way it is...well..I don't even like to think about having to tell my grand kids how it USED to be in America

Thank you for your excellent conversation sir, very enjoyable, open honest and friendly

Even though it wasn't directed at me
 
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