- Status
Nice!Wub. Practicing while waiting for my rDNA 40 to come in.
Love that the nickel wire is SO soft, it's deal easy to coil a nice spaced coil, or a super tight contact coil.
Not sure how itll stand up to the abuse from wicking with rayon though. Hmm.
Burping out loud using Tapatalk
.....
Question for anyone really: given that we can't really pulse fire the coils to get rid of hot spots, does that mean it'll be better to stick to spaced out coils? If not, what's the recommended way of using contact coils ANDY still be able to work out the hot spots?
Burping out loud using Tapatalk
Burping out loud using Tapatalk
Good evening Cult /lol
As we all know taste buds and our evaluation of a given vape can be a fickle little beast at times. Those recovered taste buds can change during the day. So...in my Magma Clone dripper built with 28 guage Ni200 the DNA40 board does a great job in protecting the wick from dry burns harsh drags etc. Tonight my vape seemed to get weaker with diluted/weak flavor but I wasn't sure if it was time to drip and or if the wick was fully saturated. Like...who the heck remembers when they last filled their RDA. So I took a gander at the screen to see if that would provide more evidence to help me and it does.
With a fully saturated wick and set to 450F and 15 watts using a .18 coil when I fire it boosts and then ramps to 15 watts and stays their for the duration of the pull. Yummy vape.
When I need to saturate the wick and drip the screen displays are quite different. It might hit 15 watts for an instant and then quickly drops down in wattage which I can see on the screen. That's yet another visual cue to drip!
Of course, if I could remember to place the drip tip next to my ear and listen for snap crackle pop when I fire that's another cue to drip.
HTH
As we all know taste buds and our evaluation of a given vape can be a fickle little beast at times. Those recovered taste buds can change during the day. So...in my Magma Clone dripper built with 28 guage Ni200 the DNA40 board does a great job in protecting the wick from dry burns harsh drags etc. Tonight my vape seemed to get weaker with diluted/weak flavor but I wasn't sure if it was time to drip and or if the wick was fully saturated. Like...who the heck remembers when they last filled their RDA. So I took a gander at the screen to see if that would provide more evidence to help me and it does.
With a fully saturated wick and set to 450F and 15 watts using a .18 coil when I fire it boosts and then ramps to 15 watts and stays their for the duration of the pull. Yummy vape.
When I need to saturate the wick and drip the screen displays are quite different. It might hit 15 watts for an instant and then quickly drops down in wattage which I can see on the screen. That's yet another visual cue to drip!
Of course, if I could remember to place the drip tip next to my ear and listen for snap crackle pop when I fire that's another cue to drip.
HTH
I've been using micro contact coils for a couple years straight... mostly thick wire, and tell you the truth; I rarely if ever got hot spots. Sure I'd usually pulse to see it glow before wicking a lot of the time, but I'm so used to it i don't think abou it.
- with the Ni200 and contact coil i just wick and hope for the best.
Yesterday, My first dna40 coil, a 13 wrap 2mm ID, 30 gauge, wicked with Japanese cotton, .16 ohms... worked fine, and its still the coil I have on today. I did see a hot leg on firing a cold atty before redripping, but it went away on the second pulse.
I suppose you could fiddle with the coils but either way, spaced or contact, we're gonna have to just wick em and vape 'em AFIK
I'm curious about the contact coil as well, and IF and HOW it works with nickel wire. From what I understood of kanthal there are two explanations: First the oxidizing layer from torching / dry burning the coil stops shorts between contacting wraps. Second the moment you fire and current "jumps" between neighboring coils, the contact area heats up and the resistance rises quickly there so the current takes "the long way" instead.
The second part would be true for nickel as well, even more so because of the way higher coefficient of temperature. So contact coils might have a nanosecond of higher resistance then go up.
I don't know if any of this is physically correct. One way I tried this is with my first coil (confusing story a few posts back). First make a contact coil and see the resistance, then space it out after the fact and check if resistance changes. The only way to see hotspots afaik is to dry burn the coil without temp protection to let it glow. Just for experiments, it's not recommended to have a nickel coil glow but just for experimentations.
Unfortunately strange things happened probably due to damaged parts of the wire or something. I'll have to experiment some more, but if anyone can provide some insight in the physics and thermodynamics of nickel contact coils I'd be happy lol. Contact coils would help greatly with building NI200 coils because of the space requirements.
The second part would be true for nickel as well, even more so because of the way higher coefficient of temperature. So contact coils might have a nanosecond of higher resistance then go up.
I don't know if any of this is physically correct. One way I tried this is with my first coil (confusing story a few posts back). First make a contact coil and see the resistance, then space it out after the fact and check if resistance changes. The only way to see hotspots afaik is to dry burn the coil without temp protection to let it glow. Just for experiments, it's not recommended to have a nickel coil glow but just for experimentations.
Unfortunately strange things happened probably due to damaged parts of the wire or something. I'll have to experiment some more, but if anyone can provide some insight in the physics and thermodynamics of nickel contact coils I'd be happy lol. Contact coils would help greatly with building NI200 coils because of the space requirements.
exactly... micro coils (contact coils) get more wire in less space -> also create a surface for more juice to vaporize = more flavor. (that was a theory that makes sense).
BUT the oxidizing kanthal is not entirely necessary afaik... kanthal was annealed (torched) yes, but it isn't really necessary for preventing shorts because you can make and use micro coils without annealing... it may have something to do with making it more pliable, not to mention burning off the stuff that is on there during manufacturing (but that can be done with a lesser flame too).
You may be confusing this with SS mesh coils (which don't always need to be oxidized either btw)
Torching or glowing also is used to the micro coil itself, to further compress the wraps since the heat makes it more pliabel while very hot... just don't use metal to compress *tweezers* while firing or it will short.
That said, a spaced coil can give good flavor too... I've come to appreciate that after insisting on micro coils for at least a year.
We've found that spaced coils work well with Rayon cellucotton as micro coils can tend to cause burning when sub ohm'ing with...
BUT the oxidizing kanthal is not entirely necessary afaik... kanthal was annealed (torched) yes, but it isn't really necessary for preventing shorts because you can make and use micro coils without annealing... it may have something to do with making it more pliable, not to mention burning off the stuff that is on there during manufacturing (but that can be done with a lesser flame too).
You may be confusing this with SS mesh coils (which don't always need to be oxidized either btw)
Torching or glowing also is used to the micro coil itself, to further compress the wraps since the heat makes it more pliabel while very hot... just don't use metal to compress *tweezers* while firing or it will short.
That said, a spaced coil can give good flavor too... I've come to appreciate that after insisting on micro coils for at least a year.
We've found that spaced coils work well with Rayon cellucotton as micro coils can tend to cause burning when sub ohm'ing with...
Last edited:
Well the question remains about what is best practice for micro coils with NI200 to avoid or detect "hot spots" (either because some wraps share more heat with each other or because of shorts). I think it's time to build a new coil
Some more observations, not sure if they help anyone but anyways
I dismantled my previous 3.2id 11 wrap spaced 30AWG NI200 macro coil build. The wick was discolored and after washing it out under water it cleared up but there where very very small but visible char marks on the wick that did not wash away. So it was mostly gunk buildup but definite charing. I was vaping this coil at 450°F max but mostly 430°F so I assume as soon as you go above 400 or 410°F you do get some wick charing. I also set the temp limit to 600°F again to see if it glows at that temp and IT DOES NOT. So whatever happened with my previous strange experiment it must have been damaged wire or something. NI200 doesn't glow at 600°F. After this dry firing without glowing the wire was still very clean and reflective without discoloration, but if course I only vaped it for half a day.
Next I disabled temp protection and let this old coil dry fire. It started to glow as expected. Curiously the resistance quickly shoots up from 0.24 to around 1.2 ohm and above. I wish the DNA40 would display the resistance as well as the current temperature in temp control mode as well, but it might not be that practical. With my high magnification loupe I examined the cooled down coil and did not seem to have changed, still reflective but maybe a bit of a rougher surface. When I re enabled the temp control the resistance was stil 0.24 ohm so the glowing did not chance the coil significantly.
--------------------
Next I build a 20.5 wrap AWG30 NI200 single contact coil with ID 1.52mm. Just because this is what I usually build with kanthal, just thicker wire and about half the wraps. What's interesting is that steam-engine.org tells me it should have 16.22 wraps for 0.22 ohm but I have 20 and 1/2 wraps for that. Strange. This would indicate that the contacts between the wraps DO make the resistance slightly higher...
And WOW this coil is the shizzle compared to my previous macro coil! I immediately noticed that at 440°F it almost dumped 35 watts when limited with temp control! I vape at 35 watts (almost max) and let the temp control the vape. I dialed the temp back to 400°F and now I have a really thick, cool and flavorful vape. After that the initially thick vapor production went down, probably because the wick was supersaturated at the start.
I did notice a bit of darkness however at the center of the coil after firing. Probably the average temperature is right but higher in the center due to less liquid and lower at the ends. So probably I'll get a bit of wick charring in the center. This coil is just too long at 20 wraps. But definitely a step in the right direction.
At 410°F gives a bit more taste and is still cool. Dumps about 8 watts after reaching the temp limit.
At 420°F gives a vape that is neither cool nor warm. Now dumps about 10 watts.
At 430°F the vape is about how I like it, slightly warm. Now dumps about 12 watts.
The temperature of the vapor will probably vary a lot depending on the size of your chamber, cooling fins and most of all your drip tip. I use a longish ming vase shaped acrylic.
----------
Next I fiddled with the coil a bit and tried to pull it apart gently and spacing the coil slightly, by pulling at one end and raking it. Interestingly the resistance went up from 0.22 to 0.26 ohm which is closer to what steam-engine is telling me. This could indicate either that contact coils do reduce resistance due to "shorts" OR that I damaged the wire of the coil a bit at some place.
Without rewicking the coil now dumps about 20 watts at 430°F and has a warmer vape. Which indicates that the temp sensing is off now somehow... or the coil is damaged.
There was noticable discoloration in the middle of the coil before I fiddled with it, which indicates a wicking problem. So 20 wrap coils with ID 1.52mm aren't any good. For dual coils you'll have to increase your inner diameter to reach above 0.1 ohm with AWG30. Or go down to AWG32.
I think the coil was damaged or the temp sensing is just off for such a long thin coil, which isn't really that suprising because the wicking will just be bad in the middle. I think it's time to build a new coil lol
Some more observations, not sure if they help anyone but anyways
I dismantled my previous 3.2id 11 wrap spaced 30AWG NI200 macro coil build. The wick was discolored and after washing it out under water it cleared up but there where very very small but visible char marks on the wick that did not wash away. So it was mostly gunk buildup but definite charing. I was vaping this coil at 450°F max but mostly 430°F so I assume as soon as you go above 400 or 410°F you do get some wick charing. I also set the temp limit to 600°F again to see if it glows at that temp and IT DOES NOT. So whatever happened with my previous strange experiment it must have been damaged wire or something. NI200 doesn't glow at 600°F. After this dry firing without glowing the wire was still very clean and reflective without discoloration, but if course I only vaped it for half a day.
Next I disabled temp protection and let this old coil dry fire. It started to glow as expected. Curiously the resistance quickly shoots up from 0.24 to around 1.2 ohm and above. I wish the DNA40 would display the resistance as well as the current temperature in temp control mode as well, but it might not be that practical. With my high magnification loupe I examined the cooled down coil and did not seem to have changed, still reflective but maybe a bit of a rougher surface. When I re enabled the temp control the resistance was stil 0.24 ohm so the glowing did not chance the coil significantly.
--------------------
Next I build a 20.5 wrap AWG30 NI200 single contact coil with ID 1.52mm. Just because this is what I usually build with kanthal, just thicker wire and about half the wraps. What's interesting is that steam-engine.org tells me it should have 16.22 wraps for 0.22 ohm but I have 20 and 1/2 wraps for that. Strange. This would indicate that the contacts between the wraps DO make the resistance slightly higher...
And WOW this coil is the shizzle compared to my previous macro coil! I immediately noticed that at 440°F it almost dumped 35 watts when limited with temp control! I vape at 35 watts (almost max) and let the temp control the vape. I dialed the temp back to 400°F and now I have a really thick, cool and flavorful vape. After that the initially thick vapor production went down, probably because the wick was supersaturated at the start.
I did notice a bit of darkness however at the center of the coil after firing. Probably the average temperature is right but higher in the center due to less liquid and lower at the ends. So probably I'll get a bit of wick charring in the center. This coil is just too long at 20 wraps. But definitely a step in the right direction.
At 410°F gives a bit more taste and is still cool. Dumps about 8 watts after reaching the temp limit.
At 420°F gives a vape that is neither cool nor warm. Now dumps about 10 watts.
At 430°F the vape is about how I like it, slightly warm. Now dumps about 12 watts.
The temperature of the vapor will probably vary a lot depending on the size of your chamber, cooling fins and most of all your drip tip. I use a longish ming vase shaped acrylic.
----------
Next I fiddled with the coil a bit and tried to pull it apart gently and spacing the coil slightly, by pulling at one end and raking it. Interestingly the resistance went up from 0.22 to 0.26 ohm which is closer to what steam-engine is telling me. This could indicate either that contact coils do reduce resistance due to "shorts" OR that I damaged the wire of the coil a bit at some place.
Without rewicking the coil now dumps about 20 watts at 430°F and has a warmer vape. Which indicates that the temp sensing is off now somehow... or the coil is damaged.
There was noticable discoloration in the middle of the coil before I fiddled with it, which indicates a wicking problem. So 20 wrap coils with ID 1.52mm aren't any good. For dual coils you'll have to increase your inner diameter to reach above 0.1 ohm with AWG30. Or go down to AWG32.
I think the coil was damaged or the temp sensing is just off for such a long thin coil, which isn't really that suprising because the wicking will just be bad in the middle. I think it's time to build a new coil lol
Last edited:
But, if I know 0 ohms is the expected reading with no atty, I will not assume a short.....there is a short error message, so unless I see that I will not assume that there is a problem.
(sent from Mars, it's not as red as I imagined.)
I have a tobeco orchid that I love....if I can get two coils to .16 ....I will probably run that or the kfl+ ....
(sent from Mars, it's not as red as I imagined.)
Ok one more post lol then I'll stop spamming my weird adventures with nickel coils. Finally made a good build! Dual coil spaced 9.5 wraps ID 2.9mm with AWG 30 NI200 on my magma. Simply wrapped around a stainless steel M3 screw that fits perfectly in my coil jig. Came out to 0.10 ohm. This build produces huge clouds and a warmer vape at 35W / 400°F. The power while vaping at temp limit caps out around 24-26 watts. So with dual coil and a proper build you can get a warm vape at 400°F and also can output much more watts (vaporizes around 12watts per coil at temp limit).
Huge gigantic clouds and a cool vape. Draws as long as I want to without getting too hot. This chip is awesome!
And crap I also got the display error mentioned in the errata section of the DNA40 datasheet Only the battery icon (half full) would show nothing else. Removing the battery and turning it on again fixed the problem. I sure don't want to do that every so often... my fix with the sticky tape didn't seem to have worked, or it's another problem.
Huge gigantic clouds and a cool vape. Draws as long as I want to without getting too hot. This chip is awesome!
And crap I also got the display error mentioned in the errata section of the DNA40 datasheet
Only the battery icon (half full) would show nothing else. Removing the battery and turning it on again fixed the problem. I sure don't want to do that every so often... my fix with the sticky tape didn't seem to have worked, or it's another problem.
Last edited:
Ohhhh maybe there is a mode where you directly set the temp with the up down button without going into locked mode? I would love that. Of course the ohm at 1.1 is rather high, it would have to be while firing with hot coil? Who took that pic lol.
Is this a poor photo-shop, or is there a different version of the firmware or a hidden setting or what?
Originally found here.
YES!! I KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS!!! lol
When you hit up and down button it brings you to the temp mode from where you set the temp (the screen you posted). Once locked it sets the temp and it will appear on the bottom left and the watts will be on the right again.
When you hit up and down button it brings you to the temp mode from where you set the temp (the screen you posted). Once locked it sets the temp and it will appear on the bottom left and the watts will be on the right again.
Is this a poor photo-shop, or is there a different version of the firmware or a hidden setting or what?
Originally found here.
Yes lol it's simply a pic during the temp adjust mode but you still have to go there by licking the mod with 5x fire and pressing up down for 2 seconds. Got excited there for a second lol.
I hope evolv will update the DNA40 to streamline the temp control features.
I hope evolv will update the DNA40 to streamline the temp control features.
Good point. Somebody was quick with the camera 'cause it doesn't stay in that mode for very long.
See, I wish I was like that but sadly that will never be the case. I can sell you anything in the world, I'll always get the best price on things but with technical stuff I am sadly not well rounded at all. If my car breaks down I call someone, if my mod would be to break down I send it in and if a light bulb has to be replaced I fear to kill myself lol.
Hey you are fine!
As long as it works! Right?!
If I wasn't educated in this stuff (Electronics, Chemistry and IT) I wouldn't care, as long as it works!
And trust me there are a lot of things I don't know chit about, as long as it works when and how it is supposed to, it makes me happy....
Being highly educated only means you spent a lot of time learning how to pass tests, it doesn't mean you REALLY know anything....I was working on computers when there were no classes for them, and programing when I was in High School....like a ways over 30 years ago!
When I was 16 I took apart a Volvo P35 1600 CC 4 cylinder engine and with a bit of my dads help completely rebuilt it....
(He only helped when I asked).
My dad was a tool and die maker, aka Millwright, or Master Machinist....
As long as you adjust the temp it stays there forever but you are right, if not adjusted it switches over quickly. Thanks for asking a simple question that has nothing to with equations and ohms and stuff. Made my day lol
- Status
