Official DNA 40 introduction

[want to quit]

Ok, I have a question folks. My first build on my kayfun that I am still rocking is amazing and won't be touched. Today my Veritas arrives and I wonder a few things.

A. Should I space the coils or not? The kayfun is a regular touchy coil but idk if I should space it in a RDA or not
B. As I have not used RDA's in a while other than my Reo where should I set the temp and watts for optimal power? Should I leave the temp in the 450 area and the watts in the 30s?
C. Most importantly, should my coil on an RDA have a bigger ID lets say a 1/18 bit aka around 3mm ID?

Thank you guys.



Let me edit this: The other part I don't understand is if I have an RDA on my dna40 set it to 40w and 550degrees how in the world can the cotton not burn please? 550 is way too hot for any cotton and if 40w rock through the coil and the limit is 550 if the atty is dry it will burn.

To try to answer this myself I assume the optimal way of use would be to just always leave the temp in the 400 area and just pump more power through it with my watt setting?

 

[want to quit]

MORE QUESTIONS!!

So, I saw a video on youtube recently and the guy spoke about the chip and wire and all that. He mentioned one thing that interested me to find out more about.

He said that we should get the best quality vape if we would use lower gauge wire ea. 26g (we can't buy that I guess) with more wraps as the thick wire does something better than the thinner one.

Aside the fact that this wire doesn't exists and we would have to do 20 wraps does his statement make sense?

To add a small side question to this, what is up with the titanium wire I keep hearing about? Can we use it with the temp control? is it "healthier"?

 

[KGie]

Just to let y'all know, I did a nice interview with John and Brandon from Evolv that I'm putting up tomorrow. I found it very enlightening, and I'm sure many others will too. Will post back when it's ready......

Tapping foot, waiting impatiently...

 

[MordorMongo]

Couldn't wait any longer on 30 gauge so went ahead and built KFL with 28. 10 1/2 wraps non-contact, 3 mm ID, was 0.13 on meter, DNA40 reads 0.14. Set to 420, 20 watts, vaped well but was hitting temp protected quicker than I would like. Turned down to 17.4 watts and works prefect, stays right on point through draw. Guessing the combo of smaller chamber and less airflow compared to a dripper is always going to be a factor when you want to avoid hitting temp and getting cut out.

 

[DejayRezme]

A. Should I space the coils or not? The kayfun is a regular touchy coil but idk if I should space it in a RDA or not
B. As I have not used RDA's in a while other than my Reo where should I set the temp and watts for optimal power? Should I leave the temp in the 450 area and the watts in the 30s?
C. Most importantly, should my coil on an RDA have a bigger ID lets say a 1/18 bit aka around 3mm ID?

Let me edit this: The other part I don't understand is if I have an RDA on my dna40 set it to 40w and 550degrees how in the world can the cotton not burn please? 550 is way too hot for any cotton and if 40w rock through the coil and the limit is 550 if the atty is dry it will burn.

To try to answer this myself I assume the optimal way of use would be to just always leave the temp in the 400 area and just pump more power through it with my watt setting?

A: I don't know for sure but I *think* contact coils aren't ideal, because it could introduce a bit of error in the temp control. Touching coils will "short" but these "hotspots" will change resistance very quickly when firing and change there the resistance. Problem is that this could limit your temperature more than you would expect. I've wrapped on an M3 screw now which worked really well. With 0.5mm pitch and 0.25mm wire (AWG30) you don't waste much space.

B: If 400°F is enough I would leave it at that, anything higher and your wick could be charred (only slightly!). With my new build at 400°F / 35W dual coil I don't hit the temperature limit anymore. Not that it matters, it's enough vapor lol. Too much even I go down to 20-25 watts. I might try to lower the temperature to test out a cooler vape. There is nothing wrong with setting the temp to 400°F and power to 40 watts. Depending on your wicking / airflow you will get temp limited or just get a huge mouthful of vapor Build quality still matters and the temp limit will just show you the quality of your wicking / airflow.

C: I think bigger coils are better for wicking. Better make them a bit thicker than too long.

D: Of course as long as your wick is wet and there is airflow and vaporization it will not "burn" even at 550°F. Vaporization carries the heat away.

He said that we should get the best quality vape if we would use lower gauge wire ea. 26g (we can't buy that I guess) with more wraps as the thick wire does something better than the thinner one.

Aside the fact that this wire doesn't exists and we would have to do 20 wraps does his statement make sense?

To add a small side question to this, what is up with the titanium wire I keep hearing about? Can we use it with the temp control? is it "healthier"?

Which video? I wouldn't agree with that. First the resistance would be a problem and long coils suck.

Generally a thicker wire provides more surface area where vaporization can happen. If you vape 26 AWG at 20 watts you will have a larger surface than vaping 30AWG at 20 watts if the coil has the same dimensions (wraps). So you have a larger potential for vapor. But you can "fit" more wraps in a coil with lower gauge, so I think that evens it out again.

The titanium wire is being discussed as an alternative to the nickel, but I haven't seen it in stock anywhere and the DNA40 doesn't natively support it. You would need a table chart to translate the expected temp limits for nickel to the corresponding temp limit with titanium. Someone said to set the DNA to half the temp.

 

[erer]

yo! im rolling with this set up



15 wraps, 5/32" CD, 28ga, ni200, single coil. i super digging it.

building with ni200 wire is something to get used to though.

if you can, wrap your leads around the post screws... they are way less fragile that way rather than going through the post holes.

i was having issues with not being able to clamp the wire down hard enough through the post holes with out clipping the wire. i was getting readings around .22 ohm at first and then i would wick/juice it up, take couple puffs and then all of a sudden it would work its way down to something like .09 ohm. ...!

i asked brandon at evolv if the preheat feature was causing this phenomenon. he said "The preheat feature does not affect the resistance in any way". and also offered to call me to try a couple things, pretty cool of him!

after fiddling with it some more yesterday i figured out the screws were coming loose almost right away. duh! lol.

so yeah, wrap them leads ya'll!

also, it seem like good coil building techniques are crucial since you cant heat the coils up to a glow to check how the coil is performing. any time i have heated them up to a glow i get a weird/really gross flavor. also, the coil looses its perfect shape. so for me, its wrap very carefully and pray for no hot spots/legs. although, looking at the coil for where vapor production comes from is a way to look for hot spots, i found.

one other thing, if you dont wash your coils before firing your coil for the first time, dont press the button for too long. the oils from your hand will heat up really fast and cause the wire to glow red on the spots of the coil that are coated in oil. at first, do a few small short bursts to slow cook that oil off.

cheers everyone, im new here and excited to be on this forum!!!!

i going to cross post this info in the ni200 building techniques thread, fyi.

 

[want to quit]

Thank you for the info buddy much much appreciated. I guess now I have to try to build a none touching coil next which will be somewhat new to me.

The video in question is this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPWzjGSwavI

Maybe I misunderstood but he mentioned something about thicker lower g wire being better but maybe in regards to kanthal rather than nickel. Also I never seen the guy before so he could be full of poo

 

[SeniorBoy]

This would be day 3 in my journey and I have questions:

1. What is the purpose of turning OFF temperature control?

2. Under what very specific circumstances should TC be turned off?

I'm asking because I tried it twice and it was not pretty! Magma dripper with a yummy yummy Ni200 build using Eko. Vaping away with this topper installed on my device. OK lets experiment and I turned off TC while the topper was still installed on the mod. Fire and suck. Harsh yuky burned el crap o. Resistance bouncing around like a basketball.

Thanks in advance for your help

 

[SeniorBoy]

also, it seem like good coil building techniques are crucial since you cant heat the coils up to a glow to check how the coil is performing. any time i have heated them up to a glow i get a weird/really gross flavor. also, the coil looses its perfect shape. so for me, its wrap very carefully and pray for no hot spots/legs. although, looking at the coil for where vapor production comes from is a way to look for hot spots, i found.

+1 and I actually tried heating the Ni200 coil and Eko wick dry on my very first build. Same gross stinky smell as you mentioned.

I'm personally undecided if it's worth my time to wash/clean a Ni200 coil before use or even bother with short fires. I've only done 4 (28 and 30 gauge) builds and have never received a yuky smelly first vape nor have I ever tasted Ni200 on a first vape after a build. I think its an evolving story and the jury is still out.

What I would like to learn directly from Brandon and or John is exactly what they think. Naturally, Dr. Farsalinos will conduct his Scientific study's on this issue but that's going to take time before his findings are released.

 

[DejayRezme]

I only turned it off to test dry burning the NI200 wire and making it glow, just as an experiment. I imagine if you disable it it just dumps the power in watts you set it to into the coil, no more, no less. It seems your build just got too hot then but if you lower power you should be fine.

Maybe it's possible that super low ohm kanthal builds might be wrongly identified as nickel wire? Or other kind of wire. Then turning it off might help. I'd be curious how the DNA autodetects the NI200 wire without firing it.

Dry firing the NI200 coil with temp limit should be fine. That sticky smell could also be just oil from your fingers from handling the wire. So far I've also conveniently forgotten to clean the wire first with acetone X)

 

[SeniorBoy]

Interesting. I DID lower the watts BEFORE I fired after I turned off the TC while the topper was installed. I know exactly what watts to use in this case since my 30 works fine at the wattage I set it to. Good point on oil on my fingers but I'm not gonna wear gloves. /lol

This is just a guess from me and I could certainly be wrong. With the topper installed using Ni200 your vaping away and everything is rosy. While the topper is still installed on the device your turn TC OFF and set the appropriate wattage and then fire/vape. The board gets confused and can't recognize the watts setting you have so it blasts it with way to much power. Again, I'm just guessing so I could certainly be wrong but only time will tell.

 

[KGie]

If you do decide to experiment torching nickel coils or dry firing them without temperature protection, you might want to make sure you're doing it in a well-ventilated area and not breathing any fumes that might be coming off the coil while torching or dry firing. According to what we've been told, nickel coils should be fine at the temps the DNA 40 limits them too, but that doesn't say anything about the temps they can hit when being dry fired or torched.

I'm curious about the contact coil as well, and IF and HOW it works with nickel wire. From what I understood of kanthal there are two explanations: First the oxidizing layer from torching / dry burning the coil stops shorts between contacting wraps. Second the moment you fire and current "jumps" between neighboring coils, the contact area heats up and the resistance rises quickly there so the current takes "the long way" instead.

The second part would be true for nickel as well, even more so because of the way higher coefficient of temperature. So contact coils might have a nanosecond of higher resistance then go up.

I don't know if any of this is physically correct. One way I tried this is with my first coil (confusing story a few posts back). First make a contact coil and see the resistance, then space it out after the fact and check if resistance changes. The only way to see hotspots afaik is to dry burn the coil without temp protection to let it glow. Just for experiments, it's not recommended to have a nickel coil glow but just for experimentations.

Unfortunately strange things happened probably due to damaged parts of the wire or something. I'll have to experiment some more, but if anyone can provide some insight in the physics and thermodynamics of nickel contact coils I'd be happy lol. Contact coils would help greatly with building NI200 coils because of the space requirements.

 

[want to quit]

Ok so my first trial at none touching coils was a total fail. Had a hot spot, tasted off, temp limit hit way too quickly. Extremely confused but I'll try again

 

[want to quit]

How can 5 wraps be anywhere near .15ohm? did you space them or were the wraps touching? I have some major issues here right now with setting up a RDA. Kayfun with touching 12 wraps 28g still going strong and vaping like a charm.

yo! im rolling with this set up

View attachment 383398

5 wraps, 5/32" CD, 28ga, ni200, single coil. i super digging it.

building with ni200 wire is something to get used to though.

if you can, wrap your leads around the post screws... they are way less fragile that way rather than going through the post holes.

i was having issues with not being able to clamp the wire down hard enough through the post holes with out clipping the wire. i was getting readings around .22 ohm at first and then i would wick/juice it up, take couple puffs and then all of a sudden it would work its way down to something like .09 ohm. ...!

i asked brandon at evolv if the preheat feature was causing this phenomenon. he said "The preheat feature does not affect the resistance in any way". and also offered to call me to try a couple things, pretty cool of him!

after fiddling with it some more yesterday i figured out the screws were coming loose almost right away. duh! lol.

so yeah, wrap them leads ya'll!

also, it seem like good coil building techniques are crucial since you cant heat the coils up to a glow to check how the coil is performing. any time i have heated them up to a glow i get a weird/really gross flavor. also, the coil looses its perfect shape. so for me, its wrap very carefully and pray for no hot spots/legs. although, looking at the coil for where vapor production comes from is a way to look for hot spots, i found.

one other thing, if you dont wash your coils before firing your coil for the first time, dont press the button for too long. the oils from your hand will heat up really fast and cause the wire to glow red on the spots of the coil that are coated in oil. at first, do a few small short bursts to slow cook that oil off.

cheers everyone, im new here and excited to be on this forum!!!!

i going to cross post this info in the ni200 building techniques thread, fyi.

 

[ukeman]

Thank you for the info buddy much much appreciated. I guess now I have to try to build a none touching coil next which will be somewhat new to me.

The video in question is this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPWzjGSwavI

Maybe I misunderstood but he mentioned something about thicker lower g wire being better but maybe in regards to kanthal rather than nickel. Also I never seen the guy before so he could be full of poo

he was talking about the common practice of thick kanthal for sub ohms use = high watts... and how thick K gives more surface, holds its shape under high power, keeps resistance "low" so watts are high.
interesting video.

 

[ukeman]

double post (??? i always see this but first time happened to me in years... LoL

 

[erer]

whoops, it should have read 15 wraps.

edited my original post.

 

[TheKiwi]

I think it's gonna be interesting to see a whole generation of dna40 builds: massive coils with a ton of wrap.

Imagine a parallel build or a dual coil with 28ga nickel. Grin.


Burping out loud using Tapatalk

 

[Bassnorma]

I think it's gonna be interesting to see a whole generation of dna40 builds: massive coils with a ton of wrap.

Imagine a parallel build or a dual coil with 28ga nickel. Grin.


Burping out loud using Tapatalk

Yeah...trying to wrap my bean around that.. and still get a dual to .16 without installing slinky coils...Lol

(sent from Mars, it's not as red as I imagined.)

 

[want to quit]

I should just get my dna 20 out set it to 14watts with a 1.4ohm coil and wait until my head can understand how this thing works. I was so good to go last night and now I am soooooooo confused about everything.

Especially when it comes to RDA's. If I set it to 430F and 40 watts since it's a RDA the temp con will kick in instantly.