On stockpiling after FDA deeming regulations

[VNeil]

I can just go by what she told me. It is very possible that the liquid wasn't affected but all of the bottles smelled the same. she popped the caps and they all smelled the same. I personally won't take a chance on that happening to mine so transfer them to glass. If I remember correctly they had all been stored in the same box for quite a long time. Seems I remember it being a couple of years.

I'll put that in the undecided column

 

[r055co]

A friend paid me back via paypal this morning so I immediately spent it all at fasttech. Picked up a couple more pico's, a cloupor mini, a bunch of kayfun parts and 3 more kayfuns.

I still feel totally unprepared and nervous...such a crappy time since the regs were released. I have at least 10 kayfuns with 10 replacements of each part, 8 removeable battery regulated mods, 4 mechs, 10+ years of nic, and a pile of other stuff and STILL feel totally unprepared. Wow.

Been prepping for a few months now, still feel I'm missing something important!



Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[r055co]

My guess is even in a worst case scenario over the next couple years, things will loosen up as all the dumb myths and half truths are dispelled by default. Sure, things will be expensive but on this particular issue, draconian measures won't likely stand the test of time. I would say within 5 years and surely by 10 years.

I don't really care about the money part. It won't be cost prohibitive to the point where I won't partake. I didn't get into this stuff to save money. It was all about saving my life. Same with my wife. When we first switched in 2013 her mindset was to do it for a while and then quit completely. I told her that I had no intentions of quitting but would if I felt like it. Fast forward 3 years and she loves vaping more than I do. lol. I mean she absolutely loves it and now says she's never quitting unless she's forced to.

I got into DIY in 2013 for 2 reasons. I could never settle on pre-mix flavors so it was always a challenge. And I like control over what I consume wherever possible. We grow our own veggies and cook at home 99% of the time. I used to brew my own beer but it wasn't helping with my stomach size so I knocked it off. lol.

Don't underestimate the greed of Government and those who controls it.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[mattiem]

I'll put that in the undecided column

I always go for better safe than sorry and I just prefer glass over plastic in all long term storage.

 

[VNeil]

Don't underestimate the greed of Government and those who controls it.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

I think one would be hard pressed to find any examples of relaxed regulations over time. It's a one way street toward ever more intrusion. Particularly tobacco control.

 

[VNeil]

I always go for better safe than sorry and I just prefer glass over plastic in all long term storage.

I agree with glass over plastic although I've never been motivated to buy all the glass and do all the relabeling. I would be more inclined to believe your friend if she had done more than a sniff.

 

[VNeil]

My guess is even in a worst case scenario over the next couple years, things will loosen up as all the dumb myths and half truths are dispelled by default. Sure, things will be expensive but on this particular issue, draconian measures won't likely stand the test of time. I would say within 5 years and surely by 10 years.

I don't really care about the money part. It won't be cost prohibitive to the point where I won't partake. I didn't get into this stuff to save money. It was all about saving my life. Same with my wife. When we first switched in 2013 her mindset was to do it for a while and then quit completely. I told her that I had no intentions of quitting but would if I felt like it. Fast forward 3 years and she loves vaping more than I do. lol. I mean she absolutely loves it and now says she's never quitting unless she's forced to.

I got into DIY in 2013 for 2 reasons. I could never settle on pre-mix flavors so it was always a challenge. And I like control over what I consume wherever possible. We grow our own veggies and cook at home 99% of the time. I used to brew my own beer but it wasn't helping with my stomach size so I knocked it off. lol.

The worst case scenario is that it follows historical tobacco control and gets ever tighter. That is also the most likely scenario. Anyone who has smoked for decades knows that the Tobacco Control Industry is never satisfied and in fact they owe their cushy lifestyles to never being satisfied. Sorry to be a downer but this is pretty obvious. The only favorable alternative is for Congress to carve vaping out of FDA control but then who would get it?

 

[Semiretired]

It's hard to think 10 or 20 or 30 years ahead. What will last that long, etc.

And 30 years from now - What was this for??? Is this from the Civil War Era???

 

[coilspotting]

I've read in places now (the handout that came with Wizard Labs' nic, and here: Pure-Nic) that nic should be long-term stored at around 40 degrees F, NOT frozen. WTF? Who is right? How do we know (testing, research)?

(From link above):
"Nicotine solutions should be stored in a dry, cool, dark location that is secured from untrained personnel. Always keep Nicotine solutions out of the reach of children and pets. For long term storage keep Nicotine solutions in a glass container with an airtight lid, and proper labeling. To help prevent oxidation, keep Nicotine solutions away from heat, light, and in contact with as little oxygen as possible. Nicotine solutions may be safely stored at room temperature. Optimal storage temperature is 34-41 degrees Fahrenheit. Nicotine solutions may be safely used for up to 18 months with proper storage."

 

[Iron Molly]

My Nude Nic came with a sticker that says "Keep Frozen -20F." I think for long term storage, colder is better. I keep my working bottle of base in the refrigerator, and the rest in the freezer.

 

[LittleBird]

All y'all are great! I've just finished reading 184 pages and have learned a bunch - not the least of which is that I'm not crazy, or, if I am, I'm not alone.

Thank you!

 

[coilspotting]

Sold legally, but how many stores are going to wait that long to keep selling?

Until they run out of stock.

 

[mikepetro]

All y'all are great! I've just finished reading 184 pages and have learned a bunch - not the least of which is that I'm not crazy, or, if I am, I'm not alone.

Thank you!

The later most assuredly.

 

[coilspotting]

I have had extreme failure in getting a person of that age to switch. They get discouraged with tech. In my experience anyway. It overwhelms them and they stick with the stinkies. Let's face it. With stinkies, all you need is a cigarette and a lighter. No batteries, juice, or coils to worry about. My advice is to keep it as simple as possible. Keep it REAL simple. That's going to be hard to do with the royal reaming we are being forced to take. I wish you and your friend the best of luck. Prayers your way.

Sent from my LG V10 using Tapatalk

Normally I might agree (actually I wouldn't but that's another story). But she's not normal. She's a highly capable professional engineer, not tech-averse, a very fast lifelong learner, highly motivated and an innovater by nature. She just missed this boat because there was nobody to show her, and while vaping is the world to us, it has kept a relatively low profile in the majority of society. Obvi time will tell and I'll keep y'all posted (I'll know by June 26th or so), but if this fails it's not going to be because of a fossilized brain.

Otoh, I totally agree that for EVERY first timer, reducing fiddly bits is a good policy - I just don't agree that it's because they're old. Zippos are sexy, and frankly for me, missing my Zippo (and the emotional tie to my grandfather and WWII) has been the hardest thing about leaving analogs behind. So +1 on reducing fiddly bits and I'd add to that: use high-safety products (mech mods not my first choice, despite long-term implications).

Thanks for the concern and advice!

 

[Bob Chill]

I think one would be hard pressed to find any examples of relaxed regulations over time. It's a one way street toward ever more intrusion. Particularly tobacco control.

Probably. But on this specific issue the US could end up being an island of sorts and looking like idiots as time goes on. Especially if places like Europe, Canada, Mexico, and Japan etc go the other direction. The proof of harm angle will end up being proof of benefit by default. All this would take time of course. Not to mention that the FDA's move is clearly not popular with all of Congress. There are vocal proponents in the mix.

Deregulation does happen. Things like handing over speed limits to States come to mind. The Feds not doing anything about CO is implicit permission that goes against a pretty major Federal law (one that will likely be changing in the not too distant future). Gambling and small batch hard alcohol is popping up in a lot of States that never allowed either. That example is State vs Fed but it's still deregulation in the "vice industry".

I do believe that at some point the FDA will be reluctantly required to change their tune. With that being said, I'm stocking up like a hoarder and taking care of my house because that is the smartest play. If I end up with a bunch of stuff I never need or use...I could care less. I gots to be able to sleep at night! lol

 

[Alien Traveler]

I've read in places now (the handout that came with Wizard Labs' nic, and here: Pure-Nic) that nic should be long-term stored at around 40 degrees F, NOT frozen. ...? Who is right? How do we know (testing, research)?

(From link above):
"Nicotine solutions should be stored in a dry, cool, dark location that is secured from untrained personnel. Always keep Nicotine solutions out of the reach of children and pets. For long term storage keep Nicotine solutions in a glass container with an airtight lid, and proper labeling. To help prevent oxidation, keep Nicotine solutions away from heat, light, and in contact with as little oxygen as possible. Nicotine solutions may be safely stored at room temperature. Optimal storage temperature is 34-41 degrees Fahrenheit. Nicotine solutions may be safely used for up to 18 months with proper storage."

There is rule of thumb in chemistry: chemical reaction double its speed when temperature is rised by 10 centigrades. Difference between room temperature and freezer temperature is about 40 centigrades, so chemical reactions will be slower in freezer by 16 times. Good reason to use freezer.

 

[LouisLeBeau]

I've read in places now (the handout that came with Wizard Labs' nic, and here: Pure-Nic) that nic should be long-term stored at around 40 degrees F, NOT frozen. ...? Who is right? How do we know (testing, research)?

(From link above):
"Nicotine solutions should be stored in a dry, cool, dark location that is secured from untrained personnel. Always keep Nicotine solutions out of the reach of children and pets. For long term storage keep Nicotine solutions in a glass container with an airtight lid, and proper labeling. To help prevent oxidation, keep Nicotine solutions away from heat, light, and in contact with as little oxygen as possible. Nicotine solutions may be safely stored at room temperature. Optimal storage temperature is 34-41 degrees Fahrenheit. Nicotine solutions may be safely used for up to 18 months with proper storage."

VG, PG and Nicotine cannot possibly be frozen by any appliance found in a normal home. The first stage of freezing is just formation of crystals, leading to a slush, and then finally a hard freeze. The crystallization temp (not really "frozen") of VG is approx. -32F, of PG is -60F, and of nicotine is -110F.

Heat is an accelerator to degradation by oxidation. Think of it like a gas pedal. Is the safest speed of a vehicle at 10% or 20% throttle? No, of course the safest speed is no throttle at all, so the lower you go, the less degradation you will experience.

I also believe that freezing something can only damage it in a couple ways. Destruction of cellular integrity caused by expansion, not applicable to VG/PG/Nic. Precipitation or reformation of solubles that cannot be returned to the solution by raising the temp back above freezing, and those are pretty rare, like tartrates. Again, not applicable to VG/PG/Nic.

tl;dr Colder, darker, more airtight = better.

 

[Semiretired]

My Nude Nic came with a sticker that says "Keep Frozen -20F."

Do not believe a normal freezer in a house can achieve -20F... -20C yes...

 

[SpiritBear]

And 30 years from now - What was this for??? Is this from the Civil War Era???

Or this, as dementia sets in: "I know that's not nicotine, I never vaped nicotine -- I don't care what it says on the bottle, the bottle is wrong. It's Peach Dribble and I want a good slug of it in my juice!"

 

[Iron Molly]

Do not believe a normal freezer in a house can achieve -20F... -20C yes...

Just double checked it, and you are right, it's -20C. My American brain wants all temps to be in Fahrenheit!