On stockpiling after FDA deeming regulations

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AnthonyB

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"In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes." Benjamin Franklin ;)

But AnthonyB, one doesn't need a crystal ball to see, at a minimum, what's coming. Now that the FDA has officially and legally deemed e-liquid as being a "tobacco product", the -tax- side of that popular quote is, without a doubt, coming. As with all other tobacco products, taxes (direct and indirect) will ultimately represent the vast majority of the total cost paid by consumers. Application fees, licensing fees, permits and all other manufacturing/retail costs associated with these regulations will also be tacked on. Stockpiling for the long haul divorces government(s) from the equation entirely. Dirt cheap insurance.

"The only difference between death and taxes is that death doesn't get worse every time Congress meets." Will Rogers :lol:




The thought of having to pay 10 times more for it (if it even remains legal for public sale) is far more ghastly a thought in my humble opinion. Since, when properly stored, liquid nic has a long shelf life (decades) it seems only prudent to circumvent paying unnecessary taxes and averting the very real possibility that it could become difficult or illegal to obtain. Why even take the risk when there's no down side to stocking up while it's readily available, inexpensive and legal? Where I live face-to-face transaction requirements (no internet purchases) are not a matter of if, but when. I live an hours drive from the nearest real B&M vape shop....




I don't know about anyone else but I wont vape any black market juice or nic bought from a flea market or out of some dark alleyway. Mods and attys are a different story. Black market hardware is a good bet but that's assuming you live near a major city where such illegal selling activities might be easily found. Importing from overseas vendors will also be a possibility but I've already experienced what happens when you try to import regulated/restricted items (tobacco products), U.S. customs is actually better at its job than what most people think. Best hope is for overseas manufacturers to market vape products as intended for other purposes i.e. dimmable flashlight with a 510 connector etc.. That's what I figure will happen. :thumb:

I hear you buddy.

I too have taken measures albeit moderate measures. I put in an order with NET.com a few days ago that cost $230. That order in itself is enough to last me 6 months on top of the 2-3 year supply already sitting in my fridge.

All I am suggesting is people take a balanced approach. If you like mini kayfuns then by all means buy 2 or 3 instead of 10.

The fight is not over. The FDA has been trying to regulate vaping for 6 years and people have gone through waves of stockpiling.

This war against the FDA has only just began. Vaping is too big for there to be a seamless transition to oppressive regulation. Millions of people Vape now. There is a critical mass. There will be a huge uproar and response as the time comes nearer. Advocacy groups are banding together and some politicians are already speaking out against the deeming regs. All the research points to vaping being a much safer option to smoking.

In order to try and get some positive perspective here, let's just say vaping as we know it is doom and all those small vendors are sent packing. Big tobacco in conjunction with larger vape gear manufacturers such as joyetech, kanger and innokin may enter into joint ventures or business collaborations and have at their disposable large resources and funding to produce better and safer products. Development will continue, it just won't be possible by the smaller vendors we know and love. It's a miscarriage of justice and fairness in the business community no doubt but product development will continue and where there is demand and money to be made, no government regulation will prevent the really big players from satisfying the markets desire for better products along the lines we are accustomed to now.

If the market wants 150 watt temp control devices and the best tasting juices and there is $100 million dollars to be made, there is no doubt the post deeming reg market participants will do everything to bring that product to the market.

Yes, I get it, we hate market and government corruption which sends our beautiful cottage industry to the greedy corporate captains in big tobacco and big pharma. Yes it's Undemocratic and not in the spirit of free enterprise and a market economy but for the vaper, it's not the end of the world. We aren't suddenly going to go from our current 100 watt temp control devices with dual claptons to fixed 510 like cigalikes 3 piece devices. It just won't pan out like that.
 
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GeorgeS

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    Personally I think one of my vaping co-workers has the right idea - the FDA just "deemed" countless non-tobacco related products as a tobacco product or accessory and subject to their regulation.

    My personal crystal ball leans towards:
    • other vapor hardware being leveraged as examples of non tobacco use in lawsuits
    • strictly 0mg nicotine setups suing about the question on how a product with ZERO tobacco content can be deemed a tobacco product
    • the "choke point" will be the supply of (or not!) nicotine
    I just installed a 2CF subzero freezer with 3L of nicotine in it and 1L on the way. Personally I don't feel comfortable with the idea of more than 10yr supply. (however I may order 1 more Ltr.

    I figure at worse the supply will dry up except the black market and in ether case the cost is going to skyrocket leaving 960mL 100mg for $70 (what can be bought TODAY) seem like a very very very distant pipe dream.
     

    Spazmelda

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    Regarding stocking up on nic, I have 2 smallish kids in my house. I'm going to take precautions and get a lockable freezer, etc, but is 72mg nic base much less danderous than 100mg? Or would I just be decreasing the longevity of my stock?

    Either would really be disastrous for kids to get into, so IMO it's better to get the 100 mg/ml and invest extra time and any savings on further child proofing.
     

    LoveVanilla

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    Regarding stocking up on nic, I have 2 smallish kids in my house. I'm going to take precautions and get a lockable freezer, etc, but is 72mg nic base much less danderous than 100mg? Or would I just be decreasing the longevity of my stock?

    The following approach has worked very well for me:

    Safe(r) storage of nicotine

    Ammo cases are designed to survive freeze/thaw cycles, can be locked, and are tough as nails. And those with o-ring seal should prevent leakage in the event a bottle breaks or leaks. Please share with others in similar situations.
     

    AnthonyB

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    sure is. The closest thing to the voice of reason I have heard and I emptied half my cart at Fasttech because of it so thanks Anthony!

    Channelvaps,

    I am kind of covered because I am compulsive spender but its got nothing to do with stockpiling. I just over spend and now have tonnes of stock. It's easy for me to speak like that, I'm already covered for at least 3 years.

    For the record people, I don't know what your experience has been with premixed juice longevity but in my personal experience juice kept in the fridge, in glass bottles, that doesn't have too much headspace (in other words, the bottle isn't half empty) will last 3 years
    or more. There will be variations no doubt based on the ingredients used in the juices.

    The voices speaking a different tune on this thread have made me consider buying a litre of 100 mg nicotine. That could last me 3 years if I've done my calculations right (1000mls x 100mg nic . I vape on average 10 mls of 10 mg nic a day at the most so therefore my 1000 mls makes 10000 mls of juice. So that should give me a total of 3.34 vape years, is that right ?) But then again China also sells nicotine juice but it is not as good as American based nicotine juice. It is also an option if 'doomsday' ever happens.
     
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    440BB

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    That could last me 2 years if I've done my calculations right (1000mls x 100mg nic . I vape on average 10 mg nic so therefore my 1000 mls makes 10000 mls of juice. I vape 10 mls giving me a total of 3.34 vape years, is that right ?)

    You are right that one liter of 100mg would mix down to ten liters of 10mg. If you vape 10ml per day, you would use 3650ml per year, so one liter of 100mg gives you about 2.74 years of vaping.
     

    440BB

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    I'm on the bubble about increasing my nic stock. I have six years of stock now, and three more liters would expand that to potentially 15 years, likely about as long as it can stay reasonably vapeable. Whether to pull the trigger now or wait a few months for somewhat fresher stock and buying more glass bottles is the tough choice.

    As I'm thinking about this multiple times every day, I think I'll be getting the nic sooner rather than later. We've dropped from 12mg to 8mg recently, but a further drop to 6mg could buy us a bit more time too.
     

    dcdozer

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    I'm on the bubble about increasing my nic stock. I have six years of stock now, and three more liters would expand that to potentially 15 years, likely about as long as it can stay reasonably vapeable. Whether to pull the trigger now or wait a few months for somewhat fresher stock and buying more glass bottles is the tough choice.

    As I'm thinking about this multiple times every day, I think I'll be getting the nic sooner rather than later. We've dropped from 12mg to 8mg recently, but a further drop to 6mg could buy us a bit more time too.
    This is exactly where I am. Keep thinking "if I wait it will be fresher", but I'm getting nervous. It's kinda like playing chicken, and I'm getting to the point where I need to pull the trigger, if only to stop obsessing over it.
     

    chanelvaps

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    I was on the fence regarding stocking nicotine. I eventually took the plunge for two reasons. 1) Peace of mind as in "I will be damned if I let the gov get me frazzled", just really do not have to worry about losing my pacifier 2) I should be doing DIY anyway. Have tons of flavorings, know the basic ropes and spend way to much on juice because I believe the hype and get suckered into the marketing descriptions "mounds of cream atop fresh baked apples with cinnamon drizzle" really just translates to an easy mix of apple, cinnamon and various cream flavorings (so WHY do I continue to pay $20 for a 30ml bottle when I could make it for pennies)
    I have to check myself here because I have always been financially SMARTER than that
     

    Robino1

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    I have a question:
    I know nothing about DIY...I mean NOTHING!! Should I buy some NIC just in case and learn later? I don't know what to do?
    Honestly? I would buy some now and learn all you can while waiting for it to arrive.

    To get started: DIY E-Liquid
     

    crxess

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    Channelvaps,

    I am kind of covered because I am compulsive spender but its got nothing to do with stockpiling. I just over spend and now have tonnes of stock. It's easy for me to speak like that, I'm already covered for at least 3 years.

    For the record people, I don't know what your experience has been with premixed juice longevity but in my personal experience juice kept in the fridge, in glass bottles, that doesn't have too much headspace (in other words, the bottle isn't half empty) will last 3 years
    or more. There will be variations no doubt based on the ingredients used in the juices.

    The voices speaking a different tune on this thread have made me consider buying a litre of 100 mg nicotine. That could last me 3 years if I've done my calculations right (1000mls x 100mg nic . I vape on average 10 mls of 10 mg nic a day at the most so therefore my 1000 mls makes 10000 mls of juice. So that should give me a total of 3.34 vape years, is that right ?) But then again China also sells nicotine juice but it is not as good as American based nicotine juice. It is also an option if 'doomsday' ever happens.

    Unless you are Specialty Shopping..............your nic is not from the USA, it is simply processed into Fresh packaging in safe lab conditions after verification of potency/Purity and shipped to customers. Likely from China or the EU.

    Perhaps:
    About Us – USA Liquid Nicotine

    :cool:
     

    bnrkwest

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    No shipping of tobacco products in NM, so I am stocking up on vapes stuff now while I can. When I smoked years ago, I could order cigs online cheap and have then mailed to me, but that ended pronto, one day I tried to order and I got the sorry we cannot ship to your state. This is what I fear with vape supplies, one day we can still order online then next day the hatch comes down! It can happen fast.
     
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