On stockpiling after FDA deeming regulations

[Tim Jenson]

It is a FACT that a number of states already prohibit internet and interstate sales of tobacco products. I live in one of them. You are giving advice that for many is a hope and a prayer that their state won't enforce existing law or quickly adopt laws licencing them to a new lucrative source of revenue. You are entitled to your opinion but it is bad advice for most people here. And there are already a few scattered reports of CC companies refusing to service online vaoe vendors with ZERO notice. I'm done arguing your nonsensical argument that flies in the face of facts. People can make up their own minds. I will continue to call you out though if you persist in disseminating your pipe dreams.

Credit cards won't be an issue if we just start paying for .... with bitcoins. I already know that fast tech accepts them. If people can buy drugs on the Dark Web your sure as hell going to be able to get nicotine and other .... their as well.

 

[coilspotting]

I wonder if anyone (I'm looking at you, those suppliers out there who need to prove there's a "benefit to vaping" beyond harm reduction for nic addicts in order to get your products passed by the FDA under the new deeming rules) has considered the benefits of vaping in re weight loss / control? For those of us with a wicked sweet tooth (like me), vaping has already helped me drop 20 lbs. without any extra effort at all, just by keeping my insulin levels under control and the severe drop in sugar/carbs in my diet. Just sayin...

 

[LouisLeBeau]

Yeah I dont think rubber is gonna be much help with an EMP, but maybe I'm wrong. That faraday cage, on the other hand, might...

HAHAHA!!! RUBBER!! Anyone who grew up in the 60's KNOWS that only being under a school desk, with your hands over your head, can protect you.

 

[Vandal]

Maybe this is already here somewhere and I just can't find it...

But I'm thinking we need to start a new high-level topic called Open Source / DIY Hardware. Specifically to share schematics, tutorials and instructions for building (and reverse-engineering / cloning) our favorite hardware, including 3D files for parts that can be created that way, and links to anything that can be found in hardware stores and/or online. This is the obvious next step for those of us that have no intention of quitting. Stockpiling is all well and good, but we are still at the mercy of others when it comes right down to it. What do y'all think?

I've scoured the existing topics and threads, and the problem is lack of focus, as I see it. Too scattered and not really addressing the entire DIY process from start to finish except in isolated posts. Hopefully the OP for those that are useful will x-post or revise for the new area. And again, this is about way more than RDA rebuilding. This is hardcore building - everything from mech mods to our own box mods.

I've already written the hexohm folks asking if, when they finally shut down because of the FDA, they will consider open sourcing their hardware plans, to help keep the community alive. No reply as of yet but it's very early days still.

I have been thinking the same thing. I'm buying as much gear as I can, but nothing lasts forever. I do not know the first thing about the repair of vaping gear. And I'm wondering at this point what parts I might need to keep on hand for future repairs, with no clue, and I'm afraid by the time I figure out what parts I might need, I won't be able to get them. I've never even built a coil (yet), but I know I'm capable of learning about electronics and eventually building my own mods. We may need such information to make it through all this.

 

[LouisLeBeau]

No matter how this turns out, I only see bad things for juice makers. With the proliferation of Nic buying, and DIY skills being honed, even if this turns around soon the damage to their customer base is happening.

I know this has been hashed already, but I don't really feel too bad for them. It seems that other than trying to get their CUSTOMERS to take action, most haven't put any money where their mouths are, or really done much else in this fight.

 

[coilspotting]

Great concept, but I am intimidated even contemplating it. It covers a lot of topics. The real challenge would be keeping the thread clean.

It's really not that bad though, if we break it down into sub-topics like mechs, temp regulator chips, motherboard, power supply, hardware, RTAs, etc. The Maker community is HUGE already, and plenty of those ppl vape or would be interested in helping if they were engaged. I've looked inside the guts of a hexohm, and it's just not that complicated from an electronics POV.

I'm 100% certain there are plenty of hobbyists, makers, modders and engineers out there that would participate, if they just knew of the interest and need - probably many that are already vaping. I mean these are REALLY simple circuits for the most part - or can be. Especially if we start with building mech mods or simpler VVs like the hexohm first, and work our way up.

All I'm asking is not to be discouraged before we've even seen if it could work. I really think it can, and believe me someone will do it. I just hate to see it happen somewhere else besides ECF.

 

[coilspotting]

I have been thinking the same thing. I'm buying as much gear as I can, but nothing lasts forever. I do not know the first thing about the repair of vaping gear. And I'm wondering at this point what parts I might need to keep on hand for future repairs, with no clue, and I'm afraid by the time I figure out what parts I might need, I won't be able to get them. I've never even built a coil (yet), but I know I'm capable of learning about electronics and eventually building my own mods. We may need such information to make it through all this.

Yay! Me too. I'm only a very basic electronics person. Basic soldering skills and not much else. But I'm a LONG-time (30+ years) member of various open source communities (hardware, software, textiles, design and 3D printing), and this is NO DIFFERENT. There is a technology problem that needs solving. For whatever reason, the powers that be are making it challenging (or we just want to do it to learn or for fun), time to share ideas and do it ourselves. It's an old story at this point. I didn't know anything about mixing juice flavors either when I started out, right?

 

[salemgold]

THANK you for that link! 4 years ago, when I started, the accepted wisdom was that VG was a better base for long term storage than PG. I put 500ml of MFS 100mg VG in an unopened bottle in the freezer. I opened it some time around this past February, and it was in every sense I could tell, unchanged.

Reading up on it more recently, it seemed that PG was most often recommended. Not sure when or how the wisdom changed, but I am glad to see this gent advocating VG. It is also my experience, that 4 years results in 0 change in VG based nic.

I have nic in PG base in my freezer that turned 5 years old this past February. Zero change since i put it in there. I do take it out and test it once every year or so. Note that Kurt also states that he only uses nic in VG base so really can't compare to PG nic except from back in the early days when nic was not as "clean" as it is now.

I do not care for nicotine in a VG base and only buy/store nicotine in PG base. Been doing this for years with zero issues.

 

[kross8]

So I guess I can ignore the fact that it's a Class C felony to buy Tobacco online in Washington State then?

Direct quote from the Law

Direct quote from the law, as passed:

(1) A person may not:
(a) Ship or transport, or cause to be shipped or transported, any
tobacco product ordered or purchased by mail or through the internet
to anyone in this state other than a licensed wholesale or retailer;
or
(b) With knowledge or reason to know of the violation, provide
substantial assistance to a person who is in violation of this
section.
(2) (a) A person who knowingly violates subsection (1) of this section
is guilty of a class C felony, except that the maximum fine that may
be imposed is five thousand dollars.



http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2009-10/Pdf/Bill Reports/Senate Final/5340-S SBR FBR 09.pdf

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are there vape shops? how are you able to get nicotine or even ejuice now?

 

[pbanj]

I wonder if anyone (I'm looking at you, those suppliers out there who need to prove there's a "benefit to vaping" beyond harm reduction for nic addicts in order to get your products passed by the FDA under the new deeming rules) has considered the benefits of vaping in re weight loss / control? For those of us with a wicked sweet tooth (like me), vaping has already helped me drop 20 lbs. without any extra effort at all, just by keeping my insulin levels under control and the severe drop in sugar/carbs in my diet. Just sayin...

That's why my wife vapes. 0 nic, sweet/candy flavors. It really does help.

 

[LouisLeBeau]

I have nic in PG base in my freezer that turned 5 years old this past February. Zero change since i put it in there. I do take it out and test it once every year or so. Note that Kurt also states that he only uses nic in VG base so really can't compare to PG nic except from back in the early days when nic was not as "clean" as it is now.

I do not care for nicotine in a VG base and only buy/store nicotine in PG base. Been doing this for years with zero issues.

Thank you for that data point, Veteran! (can I add gorgeous veteran? )

 

[salemgold]

I wonder if anyone (I'm looking at you, those suppliers out there who need to prove there's a "benefit to vaping" beyond harm reduction for nic addicts in order to get your products passed by the FDA under the new deeming rules) has considered the benefits of vaping in re weight loss / control? For those of us with a wicked sweet tooth (like me), vaping has already helped me drop 20 lbs. without any extra effort at all, just by keeping my insulin levels under control and the severe drop in sugar/carbs in my diet. Just sayin...

It would most likely have to be deemed a pharmaceutical product if they went that route. Fougetaboutit. Nice try though

 

[Steamix]

Thank you. I looked at the description and it didn't say it was in plastic. So glad you knew. I will be changing my order. I do not want to rebottle.

Well, EU vendors reacted quickly - as TPD2 is already in effect. Vendors got till about November to unload stock. After that we'll have to see.

But here's an example of a ready-to-stash-in-timecapsule-vapegeddong package

10 x 100ml - 48mg/ml PG Basis | VPS Websales International

Used to be 72mg/ml before - but following some obsucre new reg on labelling anything abover 48 mg/ml would require a skull/crossbones marking which would make it impossible to mail.

 

[salemgold]

Thank you for that data point, Veteran! (can I add gorgeous veteran? )

Well, I really can't say that 30 years from now you would not be better off with a freezer full of VG based nic though. I have had bad experience with freezing VG nic but, according to Kurt that particular nic was probably not as clean or as pure as what we get nowadays. Really turned me against using nic based in VG though. It was that bad. Plus, it is just thick and harder to work with IMHO I am going to take my chances with RTS PG based nic.

 

[mikepetro]

It's really not that bad though, if we break it down into sub-topics like mechs, temp regulator chips, motherboard, power supply, hardware, RTAs, etc. The Maker community is HUGE already, and plenty of those ppl vape or would be interested in helping if they were engaged. I've looked inside the guts of a hexohm, and it's just not that complicated from an electronics POV.

I'm 100% certain there are plenty of hobbyists, makers, modders and engineers out there that would participate, if they just knew of the interest and need - probably many that are already vaping. I mean these are REALLY simple circuits for the most part - or can be. Especially if we start with building mech mods or simpler VVs like the hexohm first, and work our way up.

All I'm asking is not to be discouraged before we've even seen if it could work. I really think it can, and believe me someone will do it. I just hate to see it happen somewhere else besides ECF.

You really need to look in the DIY forums, a lot of this stuff already exists there. Also, a ton of stuff on Shapeways already available, but I dont know if they will be post deeming. Search DNA on shapeways for eaxmple.

There are lots of How To in this section: Modding Forum

Here is my first Mod
The "WeekEnder"

Mods from a lot of folks.
Mike n Tibs DNA Mods!

 

[salemgold]

are there vape shops? how are you able to get nicotine or even ejuice now?

My bet is that will change on August 9, 2016.

 

[pbanj]

The only issue with building your own regulated from scratch(if it comes down to that) would be the firmware. The current chip makers could got the route a lot of console hacking tools do. Ship a blank chip that can be flashed with fw that is all over the place. Or ship the board labled as something else, because when it comes down to it the boards are voltage/wattage/current regulators. Sell the boards and let people make them into box mods.

 

[mikepetro]

My bet is that will change on August 9, 2016.

Kinda thinking the same thing about Shapeways.

 

[salemgold]

Kinda thinking the same thing about Shapeways.

Yep. May be best to copy everything possible at this point. Sucks but may be necessary

 

[coilspotting]

No, but if you have no desire to stock, then it leads to to the question of why you are even in this thread.

This thread is all about having "insurance".
If you dont choose to buy insurance, cool, thats your choice.
Why are you here then?

(Trolling is my guess, lol)