On stockpiling after FDA deeming regulations

[Yiana]

I made about 100 of above kits for ECF folks, they are no longer available but you can d/l plans for the enclosure here:
Evolv Reference mod Files:
IGES Files - DNA200CaseIGES.zip
Solidworks 2015 Files - DNA200Case.zip
I took the above plans and slightly enlarged the case to hold a larger battery.

Here is a set of instructions I made on how to slap it all together:
ERM+BuildGuide.pdf

Save and done. Thank you Mike.

 

[GunMonkeyINTL]

Thank you. I looked at the description and it didn't say it was in plastic. So glad you knew. I will be changing my order. I do not want to rebottle.

Rebottling really is a good idea, if for no other reason than breaking down the quantities.

I put mine in the 50mL bottles Kent recommended (54-55 mL, really). By my math, each bottle is a 2 1/2 - 3 month supply.

If I am going to have a mishap, I'll lose a 3 month supply, at most.

How are you to feel if you drop or spill a bottle, and lose a 4 year supply in a single slip-up?

ETA: not to mention the freshness factor of only taking a bottle out of the freezer and exposing it to new O2 one time. Then, when that one is used up, taking out another.

 

[Yiana]

Folks, check out [removed] it is one of the oldest ecig companies out there. You can get 200mg nic there, and other strengths as well. Browse around the site. They are also less expensive than most other places. It is good nic too, I have made several purchases from them.

Wow, their prices are great! It's good to know that they are reputable. 200mg nic is $67.99 a liter. Their other pricing is great as well.

 

[retired1]

Again. The discussion of AND linking to sites in regards to pure nicotine is not allowed on ECF.

Forum Rules

35. Nicotine strength
a. The maximum nicotine strength of refills (any liquid that is a finished product for retail sale for vaping whether bottled or sold with or within hardware) allowed to be offered for sale on ECF by Suppliers is 45mg/ml or 4.5%.
b. No liquid of strength higher than this can be specifically mentioned or offered on ECF by Suppliers. Trade deals are exempt, within private supplier boards only, as higher strengths are needed for trade bulk mixing. Note that there are shipping restrictions in some countries for toxic materials, which can be obtained by application to your local Postal Service and private shippers, and you are cautioned not to contravene these restrictions.
c. Suppliers can sell whatever strength they wish with the exception of pure nicotine (900mg/ml / 90% and above). Sites that sell pure nicotine will be blocked by ECF [3]. We define 'pure nicotine' as 90% / 900mg/ml or higher. Wholesale supplies are exempt from this ruling. We expect that Suppliers will ensure that wholesale customers are well aware of (a) the high risks, and (b) the equipment and precautions needed.
d. There is a limit on public discussion of 200mg (20%) maximum for mixing discussion, recipes and tutorials, and also in the Classifieds. Members may not discuss the use of refills (any liquids) stronger than 200mg.
e. The use of 'Pure Nicotine' cannot be discussed (in detail) on public forums on ECF (trade forums are exempt) due to the hazard [1] - see Notes below. That is to say, it can be mentioned in passing but not discussed at length especially as regards mixing.

Rule 35: Nicotine Strength
[3] It became obvious that some members joining in discussion of pure nicotine did not have any idea of the danger, or any knowledge of working with hazardous chemicals, or even any basic knowledge of measurements. Pure nic is as dangerous as cyanide - just opening a bottle in a room can result in all present being poisoned. It must be handled in a fume cupboard, with hazmat precautions. Pure nic can be theoretically defined as: Nicotine 100%, 1000mg, 1000mg/ml, but is more likely to be found as 998mg, 997mg/ml or 990 mg (99%). We consider anything over 90% / 900mg to be 'pure nic'. No discussion of use or links to suppliers whatsoever are allowed [4].

 

[Yiana]

Again. The discussion of AND linking to sites in regards to pure nicotine is not allowed on ECF.

Forum Rules

35. Nicotine strength
a. The maximum nicotine strength of refills (any liquid that is a finished product for retail sale for vaping whether bottled or sold with or within hardware) allowed to be offered for sale on ECF by Suppliers is 45mg/ml or 4.5%.
b. No liquid of strength higher than this can be specifically mentioned or offered on ECF by Suppliers. Trade deals are exempt, within private supplier boards only, as higher strengths are needed for trade bulk mixing. Note that there are shipping restrictions in some countries for toxic materials, which can be obtained by application to your local Postal Service and private shippers, and you are cautioned not to contravene these restrictions.
c. Suppliers can sell whatever strength they wish with the exception of pure nicotine (900mg/ml / 90% and above). Sites that sell pure nicotine will be blocked by ECF [3]. We define 'pure nicotine' as 90% / 900mg/ml or higher. Wholesale supplies are exempt from this ruling. We expect that Suppliers will ensure that wholesale customers are well aware of (a) the high risks, and (b) the equipment and precautions needed.
d. There is a limit on public discussion of 200mg (20%) maximum for mixing discussion, recipes and tutorials, and also in the Classifieds. Members may not discuss the use of refills (any liquids) stronger than 200mg.
e. The use of 'Pure Nicotine' cannot be discussed (in detail) on public forums on ECF (trade forums are exempt) due to the hazard [1] - see Notes below. That is to say, it can be mentioned in passing but not discussed at length especially as regards mixing.

Rule 35: Nicotine Strength
[3] It became obvious that some members joining in discussion of pure nicotine did not have any idea of the danger, or any knowledge of working with hazardous chemicals, or even any basic knowledge of measurements. Pure nic is as dangerous as cyanide - just opening a bottle in a room can result in all present being poisoned. It must be handled in a fume cupboard, with hazmat precautions. Pure nic can be theoretically defined as: Nicotine 100%, 1000mg, 1000mg/ml, but is more likely to be found as 998mg, 997mg/ml or 990 mg (99%). We consider anything over 90% / 900mg to be 'pure nic'. No discussion of use or links to suppliers whatsoever are allowed [4].

What if it is a place that sells 200mg nic and you can get it wholesale? I'm not trying to be smart, it is a question. I fully understand the pure nic. That is something that scares me personally.

 

[retired1]

If the site sells pure nicotine, it cannot be linked on ECF. This is one rule that is set in stone and will not be changed. There are far too many who would not take the proper precautions.

 

[jamesbeat]

Wouid you be willing to share your prepping list with the group, for reference?

Sure...

5x Kayfun Lite Plus
5x King mod
5x Kayfun spare base
5x Kayfun spare chimney
5x Kayfun spare tank
10x Stainless drip tip
5x Brass drip tip
1 Liter 100mg nicotine

The only 'frivolous' purchase among these is the brass drip tips to match my Caravela clone.

The reason I chose the Kayfun is that I am a tootle puffer, and the Kayfun is an older and well-understood tank design.
This means that there is plenty of info and spare parts available.
Also, the Kayfuns have a plastic tank and an optional steel tank.
I normally prefer glass, but polycarbonate is much less likely to break, and I have the steel tanks for when I break all the plastic ones.

The spare bases and chimneys will allow me to make 'cartridges' - prebuilt coils that can be carried around as spares.

The King mod is an older design, and thus inexpensive. It is also very robust, having thick body tube wall thickness.
I'm getting the stainless steel ones, as brass and copper are too soft for a mod that may have to last several years.



I do like regulated mods, but they are an unknown quantity.
They may last for years, or they may fail in weeks.
One unlucky drop could kill a regulated mod.
Mechanical mods are less 'user friendly', but with care could last almost indefinitely.

The reason that I have bought several identical items is to allow the possibility of making one good item from two broken ones.
Unless all of my gear happens to fail in the same way, I'll be able to cannibalize parts to fix breakages.

I also have the option of using my metal lathe to make replacement parts, but that obviously doesn't apply to most people.
Using the lathe is a last resort really, because it's more difficult and time consuming than most people realize to make something like a mech mod on a manual lathe.
Although I could make a mech mod from scratch on my lathe, I'd MUCH rather spend $10 now on a spare mod than have to spend hours boring out tubes and single-pointing internal threads.

Sundries such as wire, o rings, PG, VG, food flavorings etc will still be available, so I'm concentrating on the other stuff for now.

I vape approximately 3.5ml of 12mg juice per day, but I intend to step down my nicotine over the next year or so, so I'm expecting my nicotine to last ten to twelve years.

 

[GunMonkeyINTL]

I'm with you 100% on the multiples of the same item logic.

I'm less concerned about mods than I am about attys, simply because a workable mod will me MUCH easier to make than a decent atty- not to mention that the alternate uses for mod-like devices will be a much easier sell over.

RDA: I've got 3 Magmas (v1, but I'm dying to see a v2), though they're entirely bullet proof, and 1 is enough to last 10 life times.

Tank: I've got 6 subtank minis.

RDTA (my favorite style): 3 theorems, and 2 avocado 24s. The avocado is proving to be my favorite of the two, so I'm planning to get 3 or 4 more prior to August.

 

[OcalaFlGuy]

You seem to be arguing that Florida has low tobacco taxes. Let's look at the real numbers...

You need to learn to read. I never said any such thing. I DID say that referencing New taxes, our Current Governor was more apt to lower or abolish taxes than raise them.

Quit putting words in my mouth if that is the most effective way you can argue.
Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

[mikepetro]

It's really hard to find complete, current projects end to end of any sophistication on this site, as it stands. Much less in an organized, concise and easy to find and use way. It's easy to not see this if you've been here a long time, because of familiarity and because it grew slowly enough you could keep up with it all. But I build web sites for a living, and I'd shoot myself in the head if something as important to me as learning to build my own vaping hardware out of necessity depended on my being able to find it here. And for newer users like me, finding anything but endless conversations and circular references to un-specified previous posts makes the experience pretty hellish. It's not easy to learn something in a complete and satisfying way here. Just saying.

And I mean that with the deepest respect and all the admiration in the world for this site and its mods, admins and users.

I hear you. However that is the nature of any "Forum". Forums are more like conversations. Yes, thread creep will occur, and often the projects evolve throughout the conversation. No offense intended, but to expect "concise project information" in an open forum is not very realistic.

There is an encyclopedia of vape information on this site, yes, you have to do some mining to find it. Simply starting a thread hoping for nothing but concise projects, and no "noise" will not succeed unless you are a Moderator and can lock the topic, then edit it later. The closest you can come to doing something like that as an average user is to create a blog on your profile and then edit the blog as needed. For example, if you were to create a blog and only post links to pertinent posts throughout the forum. Of course, the blog owner would have to pay their dues by searching out all the links.

Or you could do something like what I did for DNA200 Resources. Start a Google Spreadsheet with a Form that lets people make entries.

Example of the "Form": DNA200 DIY Related Resources
The resulting concise table of information: https://goo.gl/b33IPB
(BTW, lots of good links and info in the above table)

 

[retired1]

Knock it off. If folks want to nitpick and beat things to death, take it to PMs.

 

[Yiana]

Can we stop the damn arguments? This thread is so helpful and I would hate to see it shut down cuz y'all can't control yourselves.

 

[mikepetro]

Rebottling really is a good idea, if for no other reason than breaking down the quantities.

I put mine in the 50mL bottles Kent recommended (54-55 mL, really). By my math, each bottle is a 2 1/2 - 3 month supply.

If I am going to have a mishap, I'll lose a 3 month supply, at most.

How are you to feel if you drop or spill a bottle, and lose a 4 year supply in a single slip-up?

IMHO, the single thing that degrades nic the most is exposure to air. Every time you open the bottle you are letting more air in. It is far better to store multiple small bottles than one large one. Nudenic's V2 packaging being a possible exception.

I recommend storing nic in bottles small enough for a few months consumption. Then just pull one bottle at a time out of the freezer and work on it until its gone.

For example, if storing 100mg nic, instead of storing a 1 liter bottle, break it down in smaller 60ml bottles. That way you are only exposing 60ml to air when you open it, instead of exposing your whole liter to air.

 

[Bob Chill]

IMHO, the single thing that degrades nic the most is exposure to air. Every time you open the bottle you are letting more air in. It is far better to store multiple small bottles than one large one. Nudenic's V2 packaging being a possible exception.

I recommend storing nic in bottles small enough for a few months consumption. Then just pull one bottle at a time out of the freezer and work on it until its gone.

For example, if storing 100mg nic, instead of storing a 1 liter bottle, break it down in smaller 60ml bottles. That way you are only exposing 60ml to air when you open it, instead of exposing your whole liter to air.

When I first started DIY in 2013 I was obsessed with doing everything possible to protect my nic. Rebottling was much easier than I thought. I used a beaker with a pouring lip and a small funnel. Once I knew exactly how much fit in a 120ml bottle (more than 120ml to get small headspace but each brand is slightly different) it became an assembly line. It took longer to clean the bottles than it did to break down 2 liters.

After that was done I obsessed with caring for my room temp mixing bottle. Then I realized no care is needed other than keeping it in a dark place. And it stays totally good for a lot longer than I thought. 6 months in the mix box and stayed clear and smooth.

I know you know this. I'm just trying to help calm the nerves of many people who are about to experience what it's like dealing with nic base. It ended up being much simpler that I thought.

Common sense safety is a must. I worked on a table with a window open nearby. Not even sure that's necessary but safe than sorry. I wore rubber gloves and poured over a high tech catch basin. By high tech I mean an aluminum baking sheet. There were very few drips but I wiped them up with a high tech bounty paper towel.

Lastly, I have had 100mg touch my skin more than once. I washed it off and didn't feel a thing. I wouldn't want to dump a liter in my lap of course but imo it's safer and easier to break down nic or work with it than filling a lawnmower with gasoline.

 

[mikepetro]

Like Bob said above, it doesnt need to be high tech. I know this sounds redneck and cliche, but I actually do my splitting/pouring in my kitchen sink.

My reasoning is this, the sink provides an excellent "containment" if there is a spill. There is spigot very handy if I need to flush my skin with water. There is a window above the sink that I can open for air.

I do use PPE when dealing with concentrated nic, check out the DIY forums for more info on that.

 

[LouisLeBeau]

I made about 100 of above kits for ECF folks, they are no longer available but you can d/l plans for the enclosure here:
Evolv Reference Mod Files:
IGES Files - DNA200CaseIGES.zip
Solidworks 2015 Files - DNA200Case.zip
I took the above plans and slightly enlarged the case to hold a larger battery.

Here is a set of instructions I made on how to slap it all together:
ERM+BuildGuide.pdf

Haha.... I didn't think anyone this side of the Pacific was still using higher end Cad. UGNX and Catia user myself, or was before the export of manufacturing. If anyone needs, I can convert those to STEP, UG, or Catia for you. Well, Catia maybe not so much. It hates other formats.

 

[mikepetro]

Also look around on thingiverse.com , there are lots freely downloadable mod designs there, ready to load into a 3D printer.

For example.
BlueRidgeDog's Thingiverse Profile

 

[mikepetro]

There are several pages full of stuff on Shapeways, not sure how the deeming might affect this though. Very possible Shapeways may have to pull this stuff soon though, so they dont get considered to be a Tobacco Manufacturer.

DNA200 - Shapeways 3D Printing Search Results

 

[LouisLeBeau]

When I first started DIY in 2013 I was obsessed with doing everything possible to protect my nic. Rebottling was much easier than I thought. I used a beaker with a pouring lip and a small funnel. Once I knew exactly how much fit in a 120ml bottle (more than 120ml to get small headspace but each brand is slightly different) it became an assembly line. It took longer to clean the bottles than it did to break down 2 liters.

After that was done I obsessed with caring for my room temp mixing bottle. Then I realized no care is needed other than keeping it in a dark place. And it stays totally good for a lot longer than I thought. 6 months in the mix box and stayed clear and smooth.

I know you know this. I'm just trying to help calm the nerves of many people who are about to experience what it's like dealing with nic base. It ended up being much simpler that I thought.

Common sense safety is a must. I worked on a table with a window open nearby. Not even sure that's necessary but safe than sorry. I wore rubber gloves and poured over a high tech catch basin. By high tech I mean an aluminum baking sheet. There were very few drips but I wiped them up with a high tech bounty paper towel.

Lastly, I have had 100mg touch my skin more than once. I washed it off and didn't feel a thing. I wouldn't want to dump a liter in my lap of course but imo it's safer and easier to break down nic or work with it than filling a lawnmower with gasoline.

Absolute troof. I realized how much I was overthinking it after a big tank of 24mg came apart in my lap shortly into a 12 hour car ride. If 8 hours of exposure to 24mg doesn't make you sick.. and I own a Haz Mat environmental company. Really, the contact issue is filled with fear, while nobody really talks about ventilation. The vapors of high strength nic are POTENT, man! If I had to choose, I'd go for the open window over the gloves. Not that anyone has to choose.

 

[englishmick]

I've seen a bunch of ideas on building mods, but can't recall seeing anything on building toppers. Has anyone done this? The tanks I have seen would be a whole lot of difficult work on a lathe, plus milling and drilling. And all those fiddly insulators parts on the deck.