Oregon Sues Smoking Everywhere

[Gravel Hauler]

Why are people complaining about SE here?

I support SE's actions, and instead I look down at Sottera. SE is saying that no, these are not bad, we will not be looked at as being worse than cigarettes, we will demonstrate your fear and ignorance, and provide an alternate solution for those addicted to cigarettes.

Imho, SE is fighting for your rights to have e-cigs. And people are complaining about that?

Amen brother ! I totally agree with you !

 

[UptownRiot]

I also believe SE could present an extremely compelling case in defense of the 'safer than cigarettes' angle. Imagine the headlines if a judge ruled in their favor. The possibility of that alone should have been enough to keep the state from taking it to a courtroom.

Why are people complaining about SE here?

I support SE's actions, and instead I look down at Sottera. SE is saying that no, these are not bad, we will not be looked at as being worse than cigarettes, we will demonstrate your fear and ignorance, and provide an alternate solution for those addicted to cigarettes.

Imho, SE is fighting for your rights to have e-cigs. And people are complaining about that?

SE can't provide any proof to back up their claims though. They've done no studies. This is why they are losing the case against the FDA, and while they will very quickly lose in this case against Oregon. As several others have stated, you have to be very careful about the claims you make in marketing material.

 

[Big Daddy]

Why are people complaining about SE here?

I support SE's actions, and instead I look down at Sottera. SE is saying that no, these are not bad, we will not be looked at as being worse than cigarettes, we will demonstrate your fear and ignorance, and provide an alternate solution for those addicted to cigarettes.

Imho, SE is fighting for your rights to have e-cigs. And people are complaining about that?

YES YES I Agree!!!!!!!!

 

[Magestorm]

They could get lucky, and win. One never knows. Besides, this is against SE, not E-cigs in general. If they blow through the money they made selling $50 4081's for $200, then it's fair to me.

 

[Robert]

I see your point UptownRiot. I really don't know what there claims were. So- I'm sitting back and watching now.

going to buy more juice........

 

[TheIllustratedMan]

Why are people complaining about SE here?

I support SE's actions, and instead I look down at Sottera. SE is saying that no, these are not bad, we will not be looked at as being worse than cigarettes, we will demonstrate your fear and ignorance, and provide an alternate solution for those addicted to cigarettes.

Imho, SE is fighting for your rights to have e-cigs. And people are complaining about that?

Well actually, they're fighting for their right to continue selling the uninformed an overpriced, untested, unapproved, unregulated product through abrasive marketing tactics and unsubstantiated claims.

The people who are willing to play ball and keep this thing on the market while getting the proper testing and quality control going - those are the people fighting for me.

 

[Duckies]

Well actually, they're fighting for their right to continue selling the uninformed an overpriced, untested, unapproved, unregulated product through abrasive marketing tactics and unsubstantiated claims.

The people who are willing to play ball and keep this thing on the market while getting the proper testing and quality control going - those are the people fighting for me.

And for me as well.

SE hawked this product in the malls as a smoking cessation device. That is the opposite of what they are now arguing against the FDA (that they don't want people to quit using it). Unfortunately, you can't put that toothpaste back in the tube and Oregon is calling them on it.

 

[SLDS181]

The people who are willing to play ball and keep this thing on the market while getting the proper testing and quality control going - those are the people fighting for me.

The others went along with the AG in Oregon and are no longer selling there.

That is fighting for you?

 

[SLDS181]

And for me as well.

SE hawked this product in the malls as a smoking cessation device. That is the opposite of what they are now arguing against the FDA (that they don't want people to quit using it). Unfortunately, you can't put that toothpaste back in the tube and Oregon is calling them on it.

It isn't a smoking cessation device?

I'm not smoking any more, I'm using an electronic cigarette, a personal vaporizer. Did SE make claims of quitting the use of nicotine?

 

[VaporPhreak]

Why are people complaining about SE here?

I support SE's actions, and instead I look down at Sottera. SE is saying that no, these are not bad, we will not be looked at as being worse than cigarettes, we will demonstrate your fear and ignorance, and provide an alternate solution for those addicted to cigarettes.

Imho, SE is fighting for your rights to have e-cigs. And people are complaining about that?

I for one agree! As for the stating that no scientific studies exist to prove that e-cigs are safer that tobacco usage, that is untrue. There have simply been no studies completed in the US. Look to the report out of New Zealand that so many from here go on about. When one sees data like that versus the same data which has been done over and over again on tobacco it is absolutly clear that e-cigs are safer. As to the claim of "general safety" I think that term is so relative that it there is no way to prove or disprove it. After all pointing a loaded but uncocked gun at ones head is generaly safe when the alternative is juggeling live hand grenades whose pins have been pulled. Much the same the use of an e-cig is generaly safe comapred to say breathing in the air from downtown Detroit or NYC let alone smoking tobacco..
In end I suppose it all boils down to when americans are gonna pull their heads out of there @sses and start thinking for themselves rather than professing that the governments word is always perfectly true and the best thing for them. Just my 2 cents, take or leave it. Peace.

 

[Duckies]

It isn't a smoking cessation device?

I'm not smoking any more, I'm using an electronic cigarette, a personal vaporizer. Did SE make claims of quitting the use of nicotine?

Yes. That is why this is a problem. They have been making those claims of "quitting smoking, quitting nicotine" since last summer (possibly before)and people like ECA have been screaming about it even before those folks became suppliers and formed ECA.

No faster way to get the FDA involved than to claim you are an NRT with the purpose of quitting all together.

As far as nJoy -- they agreed to pull product until a deal could be reached with the FDA. They are now in court working towards that very end. They also may end up being the only one left standing.

 

[TheIllustratedMan]

The others went along with the AG in Oregon and are no longer selling there.

That is fighting for you?

I did not specifically reference NJOY... if you've ever read anything I've posted, you should know what I'm talking about. I won't beat a dead horse here.

But yes, I think a temporary market removal was the best course of action in *this* situation.

 

[SLDS181]

Yes. That is why this is a problem. They have been making those claims of "quitting smoking, quitting nicotine" since last summer (possibly before)and people like ECA have been screaming about it even before those folks became suppliers and formed ECA.

There isn't an SE in a mall by me, I've never seen one, so I've never heard of them saying its for quitting nicotine altogether - its why I ask. All the ads for Blu and such that I've noticed have been about quitting smoking - which, imho, is just changing where you get your nicotine from, making it a perfectly legit statement.

 

[VaporPhreak]

There isn't an SE in a mall by me, I've never seen one, so I've never heard of them saying its for quitting nicotine altogether - its why I ask. All the ads for Blu and such that I've noticed have been about quitting smoking - which, imho, is just changing where you get your nicotine from, making it a perfectly legit statement.

Again, I am in agreeance. I bought my first e-cig from NJOY with the intent of quitting smoking, not quitting nicotine. I had already tried every other kind of NRT I could find and none of them worked, but this did. I hear this all the time from other e-cig users, but I guess the actual experience of thousands of people cant be considered trueth as it didnt happen under "controlled lab conditions".

While I am close to the subject I want to derail this train for a sec... Does anyoen else find the the term NRT (Nicotine Replacement Therapy) a little stupid? After all its not the nicotine we are replacing with all of these methods, its the deliver system. The patches, gums, inhaler, and e-cigs all have nicotine. I dunno, just kind hit me a minute ago that the whole term is just stupid. Anyway, Peace.

 

[Duckies]

There isn't an SE in a mall by me, I've never seen one, so I've never heard of them saying its for quitting nicotine altogether - its why I ask. All the ads for Blu and such that I've noticed have been about quitting smoking - which, imho, is just changing where you get your nicotine from, making it a perfectly legit statement.

I completely understand. Just explaining why you are seeing frustration with people over SE's tactics. We saw it coming eons ago when they didn't rein in their kiosk people from making those claims.

 

[BigJimW]

The kiddy angle again rears up it's ugly head. What do they THINK we should be vaping? Broccolli and prune juice?

 

[Sun Vaporer]

It isn't a smoking cessation device?

I'm not smoking any more, I'm using an electronic cigarette, a personal vaporizer. Did SE make claims of quitting the use of nicotine?

It is a device we all are using to mitigate the harmful effects of continuted use of tobacco. While we think it is much better, only more testing will prove this contention

The others went along with the AG in Oregon and are no longer selling there.

That is fighting for you?

SLDS--there is a time to choose your battles and a time to stand pat and use some public relations to advance a bigger cause. This conduct by SE, in the pendency of waiting for a ruling by Judge Leon, shows a total disregard for the Court. The few dollars lost in selling in Oregon compared to losing the bigger battle in Court is just plain arrogance and surely is not want Judge Leon wants to be reading while he is making his decision.

Sun

 

[SLDS181]

It is a device we all are using to mitigate the harmful effects of continuted use of tobacco. While we think it is much better, only more testing will prove this contention

Well... I would contest that we know more than we say we do. The ESTA has had standards for fog machines due to the potential hazard to actors and actresses on broadway for some time now, and conducted many studies.

http://www.esta.org/tsp/documents/docs/ANSI_E1-5_2003.pdf

SLDS--there is a time to choose your battles and a time to stand pat and use some public relations to advance a bigger cause. This conduct by SE, in the pendency of waiting for a ruling by Judge Leon, shows a total disregard for the Court. The few dollars lost in selling in Oregon compared to losing the bigger battle in Court is just plain arrogance and surely is not want Judge Leon wants to be reading while he is making his decision.

Sun

Its not about dollars lost, its about agreeing - albeit passively - that electronic cigarettes pose a risk more significant than cigarettes.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

No--that has nothing to do with long term exposure, so nothing is proven yet. The reports we have seen are scant at best, but do look very promising. The point being is that, but for the cronic use of tobacco with its deadly toxins, we would not be seeking out to switch over the the e-cig.

As for SE---they caused a lot of what is going on right now and I need say no more about this company who has not bothered to even run one test on their product while at the same time ripping customers off with overpriced e-cigs.

Sun

 

[SLDS181]

No--that has nothing to do with long term exposure, so nothing is proven yet. The reports we have seen are scant at best, but do look very promising. The point being is that, but for the cronic use of tobacco with its deadly toxins, we would not be seeking out to switch over the the e-cig.

Thats not the lab reports evaluating nic juice.

Its a standard based on studies of long term exposure to fog juice, and the recommendation of glycol solutions.

As for SE---they cased a lot of what is going on right now and I need say no more about this company who has not bothered to even run one test on their product while at the same time ripping customers off with overpriced e-cigs.

Sun

That.... I have to agree with. I'd like it more if a more reputable US company were taking a firm stance.