Orion v3 is it still a hybrid?

[CASEACE79]

Nosmoker (Les) has released new details about the the Orion v3. Here are the specs.


1: Variable watt 5-15W
2: 15 Second Cutoff
3: Short Circuit Protection
4: Reverse Battery Protection
5: Discharge Protection (adjustable 2.9-7V)
6: Temperature Monitoring
7: Overload Protection
8: On - Off Mode
9: 10 minutes auto-off
10: Stacked batteries 2 x 18350 or 1x 18650 or 1x 18350
11: Resistance check
12: Battery Volt check
13: Check battery volts under load

This all is kind of confusing to me. Isn't the reason the atty is permanently affixed to the body of a hybrid to eliminate a point of resistance (510 connection) so you get less voltage drop between the battery and atomizer? With it being a regulated wattage device doesn't it negate the need for it to only work with one atty?

Not that I'm not still excited about it's release 'cause I am. Just am a bit confused by the design choices. I mean what is it? It's definitely not a mechanical mod and it's kind of a hybrid but not really. Any thoughts?

 

[Thrasher]

oo i think i finally want a hybrid... hybrid means one piece not non regulated.

a lot fo this stuff will mean there is no more voltage drop as the battery becomes weaker - killing a lot of the reasons many people dont like mods/hybrids. and also meaning there is no reason to purchase a kick if you do want to regulate it.

in the end there isnt any reason to keep switching atty's anyways beyond changing flavors. something like this is perfect to me as i pretty much vape one juice for long periods.

as well as now having to create the perfect low res coil isnt mandatory anymore.

sounds like the DNA 20 or Nival chip in there. any more details on a release date?

slap the new panny 2900 in there and off to the races we go.......................

 

[CASEACE79]

oo i think i finally want a hybrid... hybrid means one piece not non regulated.

a lot fo this stuff will mean there is no more voltage drop as the battery becomes weaker - killing a lot of the reasons many people dont like mods/hybrids. and also meaning there is no reason to purchase a kick if you do want to regulate it.

in the end there isnt any reason to keep switching atty's anyways beyond changing flavors. something like this is perfect to me as i pretty much vape one juice for long periods.

as well as now having to create the perfect low res coil isnt mandatory anymore.

But the whole reason to get rid of the 510 connection was to decrease voltage loss. Not having the ability to switch out atomizers is not a desired feature. Limiting what you can use on it is not a benefit. Up until now it was a necessary evil that served a purpose. And it served it's purpose very well, hence the popularity of a hybrid over a mech mod with a genesis atty. Now that it's regulated there is no functional reason to have a proprietary atomizer.

 

[Thrasher]

why not? in the end regulated or not there is still a loss between mod and atty. and the idea of this being one piece and regulated should (in theory) help the battery to last longer while counteracting the loss from electronics.

i cant speak for everyone - but i use one provari with one cobra on it day in and day out.
i have others i use but this one set up is the same, all the time, everyday. when i rewick its like darn i used the wrong hole to line up with the button or make sure its screwed on tight.

i see your point but if you dont change anything, ever, what is a removable atty needed for? just more pieces and connections and parts to worry about. loss-less, one piece streamlined and seemless is very appealing. people go out of their way to make their VVapv's look like mods (ZAP, prorings) why not just get one that way.

i can understand, like i said someone who changes devices a lot or several times a day not wanting this or understanding, but im past that point, i have 3 provari and 3 attys that sit on them and thats it plus a shelf full of geni's collecting dust.

my return question through all this would be - then why do so many people with hybrids/mods kick them? why pay 300 for an unregulated mod but make sure you get a kick extension for it?

dont get me wrong i see your point im just playing devils advocate here.

 

[CASEACE79]

why not? in the end regulated or not there is still a loss between mod and atty. and the idea of this being one piece and regulated should (in theory) help the battery to last longer while counteracting the loss from electronics.

i cant speak for everyone - but i use one provari with one cobra on it day in and day out.
i have others i use but this one set up is the same, all the time, everyday. when i rewick its like darn i used the wrong hole to line up with the button or make sure its screwed on tight.

i see your point but if you dont change anything, ever, what is a removable atty needed for? just more pieces and connections and parts to worry about. loss-less, one piece streamlined and seemless is very appealing. people go out of their way to make their VVapv's look like mods (ZAP, prorings) why not just get one that way.

i can understand, like i said someone who changes devices a lot or several times a day not wanting this or understanding, but im past that point, i have 3 provari and 3 attys that sit on them and thats it plus a shelf full of geni's collecting dust.

my return question through all this would be - then why do so many people with hybrids/mods kick them? why pay 300 for an unregulated mod but make sure you get a kick extension for it?

dont get me wrong i see your point im just playing devils advocate here.

See I'm from a different mindset. I would NEVER kick a mech mod it just doesn't get hot enough. And also think that those who do truly don't understand what mechanical mods are capable of. I run a .8 ohm coil of 28g kanthal that is about 17w and if you use the 18650 MNKE batts voltage drop off is almost a non issue.

I know you're playing devils advocate and I love talking about this stuff so no worries it's not gonna get personal. At the end of the day if a Blu has gotten ya off the stinkes then awesome.

I guess I just don't know if it fits into "My" definition of what a hybrid is and was wondering if others felt the same.

I'm at the top of the list for the Orion v3 and have been on the list since August. I'll still get it and try it out before I have a real feel for it. The new adjustable airflow ring seems really cool.

Regardless it's a pretty safe investment and will be a huge bargaining tool if I ever decide to trade it out. Who know's, I may end up loving it and would never part with it.

 

[jasl90]

Being a hybrid has nothing to do with being regulated or mechanical. It simply means that it has an integrated, non-interchangeable, atomizer... Or, at least, that's my take on it...
I just looked at the V3 page on nosmokers site. Definitely not a DNA-20 chip. The DNA-20 has a 15 watt limit and an OLED display. The V3 module has a 15 watt limit and a dual 7 segment display.
Maybe a Nivel chip... I know it has the ual 7 segment display but I don't recall it's max wattage limit.

IMO, yes, it still meets the definition of a hybrid. Just my 2cents...

 

[CASEACE79]

Being a hybrid has nothing to do with being regulated or mechanical. It simply means that it has an integrated, non-interchangeable, atomizer... Or, at least, that's my take on it...
I just looked at the V3 page on nosmokers site. Definitely not a DNA-20 chip. The DNA-20 has a 15 watt limit and an OLED display. The V3 module has a 15 watt limit and a dual 7 segment display.
Maybe a Nivel chip... I know it has the ual 7 segment display but I don't recall it's max wattage limit.

IMO, yes, it still meets the definition of a hybrid. Just my 2cents...

See this is why I brought up this topic. I guess the better question is just because it has a unibody design does that make it a hybrid. I mean it being unregulated was the reason for the unibody design in the first place. If it's regulated it defeats the reasoning for it to need to be unibody to begin with. Other than aesthetics it has no purpose.

We use terms very loosely in the vaping community. Lets take the GP Spheroid for example. It's billed as a rebuildable atomizer when in actuality it is closer to a cartomizer in design than an actual atomizer. I could say (very unfairly) that the Orion v3 was closer to a ZMax with a ZAU that won't come off of it (better specs and build quality I know) than an actual traditional hybrid and I'd be correct. It has more in common with a regulated mod like the ZMax or Provari than a Zen if you think about it. The only thing they actually have in common IS the unibody design, but is that enough for it to still be called a hybrid?

 

[jasl90]

See this is why I brought up this topic. I guess the better question is just because it has a unibody design does that make it a hybrid.

IMO... yes

I mean it being unregulated was the reason for the unibody design in the first place. If it's regulated it defeats the reasoning for it to need to be unibody to begin with. Other than aesthetics it has no purpose.

I'd disagree. The design still eliminates the 510 connection, which a standardized carry over from smaller e cigs. On an 18xxx mod and tank system, it's a weak mechanical connection and an additional electrical connection.
Taking the additional connection out of the mix benefits regulated devices every bit as much as it does mechanical devices.

We use terms very loosely in the vaping community. Lets take the GP Spheroid for example. It's billed as a rebuildable atomizer when in actuality it is closer to a cartomizer in design than an actual atomizer.

Catromizers, clearomizers, genisis's... They are all atomizers. An atomizer is anything that "atomizes" a liquid... Doesn't matter if it's attached to an e cig, a fog maching or a medical respiratory device.

I could say (very unfairly) that the Orion v3 was closer to a ZMax with a ZAU that won't come off of it (better specs and build quality I know) than an actual traditional hybrid and I'd be correct. It has more in common with a regulated mod like the ZMax or Provari than a Zen if you think about it.

We'll find out once it's released. I made the mistake of going with the Z-Max because it had better specs on paper and had more functionality than the Provari. When started acting flakey (about 30 days after the warrantee had expired) I said screw it and a Provari. It didn't take long to realize that specs on paper don't mean crap. I'll be very interested in seeing how the V3 stacks up...

The only thing they actually have in common IS the unibody design, but is that enough for it to still be called a hybrid?

IMO... Again... Yes.
From my point of view, the only benefit of a hybrid is the fact that it eliminates the unnecessarily weak 510 connector. (feel free to replace "510" with "808", "901" or any other stick battery connection)

I think you could actually make a stronger "not a hybrid" case against the mechanical mods that have interchangeable top caps that allow you choose between a "hybrid tank" connection or a 510 cap.

BTW... Not trying to be argumentative... Just enjoying the conversation.

 

[CASEACE79]

I don't know what you me an by "weak" 510 connection. Are you talking about the possibility of it breaking? Or weak as in a poor connection for carrying current?

The real reason hybrid devices were created wasn't because of the durability of the 510 connection, but rather the fact that a 510 connection inhibits the current going from the battery to the atomizer. The whole premise of a hybrid is to eliminate the 510 connection which cause voltage loss to the atomizer. Mount the atty right to battery. This being said a hybrid connection has a purpose on a mech mod as it transfers voltage more efficiently. On an regulated APV you don't need to worry about how efficiently voltage is transferred because the electronic board boosts the voltage/wattage to the desired amount. Basically making the hybrid connection a mute point. The fact that it's also more durable is just a side effect.

So my question really is (I know this is my 3rd revision) If the purpose and function that gave birth to the unibody design is relegated to nothing more than jewelry should it still be considered a hybrid? Yes it still has a unibody design, but it has no purpose.

 

[jasl90]

The 510 is most certainly the weak link (mechanically speaking) between a big battery mod and a tank system. It was originated for use with little stick batteries and simply carried over to larger devices so that people could continue to use atttys & cartos that they were used to using.
No designer is his right mind would go out their way to join two 22mm tubes with a 5mm connection.

While yes, a good regulated devise will compensate for the voltage drop caused by the connection, it does so by drawing more power from the battery, thus making it a less efficient system and shortening battery life.

The efficiencies gained by the reduction of electrical connections in the hybrid design will benefit a regulated system every bit as much as it does a mechanical system.
In fact... When you consider the fact that a boost converter becomes less efficient as the differential between in input voltage and the output voltage increases, the efficiencies gained by a solid electrical path are actually benefit a regulated device more it does a mechanical device.

So... While you may not feel it in the vape, per se, you will see it in the form of increased battery life.

 

[CASEACE79]

The 510 is most certainly the weak link (mechanically speaking) between a big battery mod and a tank system. It was originated for use with little stick batteries and simply carried over to larger devices so that people could continue to use atttys & cartos that they were used to using.
No designer is his right mind would go out their way to join two 22mm tubes with a 5mm connection.

While yes, a good regulated devise will compensate for the voltage drop caused by the connection, it does so by drawing more power from the battery, thus making it a less efficient system and shortening battery life.

The efficiencies gained by the reduction of electrical connections in the hybrid design will benefit a regulated system every bit as much as it does a mechanical system.
In fact... When you consider the fact that a boost converter becomes less efficient as the differential between in input voltage and the output voltage increases, the efficiencies gained by a solid electrical path are actually benefit a regulated device more it does a mechanical device.

So... While you may not feel it in the vape, per se, you will see it in the form of increased battery life.

This brings up another gripe I have. How hard is it to change a freaking battery. I never understood those 26650 mods. So while I agree with you on the increased battery life it's not an issue for me. Hell I use MNKE batteries which have a much lower mah rating than AW's just because they perform better. I never thought about it helping the efficiency of the boost converter and while I do agree I respectfully disagree about it being JUST as beneficial to a regulated mod. While it may help efficiency all around the efficiency gained by a mech mod is much greater when it comes down to the most important factor. Vape quality. In a mechanical mod the benefit is quite noticeable where as in a regulated device the benefits while still there go unnoticed aside from battery life.

 

[jasl90]

This brings up another gripe I have. How hard is it to change a freaking battery. I never understood those 26650 mods. So while I agree with you on the increased battery life it's not an issue for me. Hell I use MNKE batteries which have a much lower mah rating than AW's just because they perform better. I never thought about it helping the efficiency of the boost converter and while I do agree I respectfully disagree about it being JUST as beneficial to a regulated mod. While it may help efficiency all around the efficiency gained by a mech mod is much greater when it comes down to the most important factor. Vape quality. In a mechanical mod the benefit is quite noticeable where as in a regulated device the benefits while still there go unnoticed aside from battery life.

I'll go along with that... I would definitely agree that the improved connection would have a more pronounced impact on the vape quality of a mechanical. I would also agree that swapping batteries is not a big issue either (assuming you have a charged battery handy)... But that does not mean that I want to needlessly piss away battery power when it isn't necessary.

 

[CASEACE79]

I'll go along with that... I would definitely agree that the improved connection would have a more pronounced impact on the vape quality of a mechanical. I would also agree that swapping batteries is not a big issue either (assuming you have a charged battery handy)... But that does not mean that I want to needlessly piss away battery power when it isn't necessary.

Me either. I mean it really isn't an issue for me unless a mod is significantly reducing battery life.

To have however made me realize that it is a hybrid. Though I do consider it kind of a stretch. Part of my feelings towards this are due to my love of high end mechanical devices. Don't get me wrong there are things I love about my Provari. The adjustable voltage and no battery drop off is nice but as I've said I vape around 17 watts and no matter what you do to a Provari you'll never get 17 watts. I'm still waiting for that perfect device and while the Orion comes close it still misses that sweet spot.

Still excited to see how it will pan out. Les did say he was thinking of a way to possibly get it to run in just mech mode also. Now that would suit me better. When the voltage drop off starts to hit just switch over tot regulated.

 

[jasl90]

Me... I'm on the ELA pre-order list. It will be my 1st mechanical device.

You're 100% correct about the Provari. It does have its limitations,14.5 watts being one of them.

While I do like what I've seen of the Orion it wouldn't be a top pic for me personally. Based on what I've seen of the hybrids out there, I'd say the Icarus would be my 1st choice.

I've never put my hands on, let alone vaped, a hybrid device so the above statement is base solely on looks, form factor and reviews of others... So take it for what it is... An inexperienced opinion.

 

[CASEACE79]

I know you know this already but it's ALL about efficiency when it comes to mechanical which is why I passed on the Ikarus. The contacts are SS which is a really poor choice for a conductor. Look for brass, rhodium or best of all silver. I love my poldiac for that reason. Silver plated brass contacts. I actually get .2 to .5 voltage drop under load which is excellent. Also get yourself some of the MNKE 18650's. Voltage drop off doesn't happen till you're about 3/4 of the way through your charge where as the AW's begin to drop off very quickly. Also the MNKE's are safer when running low ohm coils as they have a 20amp continuous output compared to the AW's 10 amp.

If you're looking into a hybrid check out the iHybrid. It's big but one of the most efficient hybrids on the market.

The ELA Looks solid. I'm just on way too many lists at the moment. Orion, Caravela, and the vaper v2. Also planning on picking up a foggatti In the next 2 weeks when they become available. Also planning on the Astro and Mercury by Kato in April.


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[jasl90]

I know you know this already but it's ALL about efficiency when it comes to mechanical which is why I passed on the Ikarus. The contacts are SS which is a really poor choice for a conductor. Look for brass, rhodium or best of all silver. I love my poldiac for that reason. Silver plated brass contacts. I actually get .2 to .5 voltage drop under load which is excellent. Also get yourself some of the MNKE 18650's. Voltage drop off doesn't happen till you're about 3/4 of the way through your charge where as the AW's begin to drop off very quickly. Also the MNKE's are safer when running low ohm coils as they have a 20amp continuous output compared to the AW's 10 amp.

If you're looking into a hybrid check out the iHybrid. It's big but one of the most efficient hybrids on the market.

The ELA Looks solid. I'm just on way too many lists at the moment. Orion, Caravela, and the vaper v2. Also planning on picking up a foggatti In the next 2 weeks when they become available. Also planning on the Astro and Mercury by Kato in April.


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I've heard good things about the MNKEs and their definitely on the shopping list.

The iHybrid... That is one device that has absolutely no appeal to me what so ever.

If you have a link for the Caravela list... That I would be interested in.

Not familiar with the Vapor V2... Got a link?

 

[Koman]

I've heard good things about the MNKEs and their definitely on the shopping list.

The iHybrid... That is one device that has absolutely no appeal to me what so ever.

If you have a link for the Caravela list... That I would be interested in.

Not familiar with the Vapor V2... Got a link?

MNKEs are great!

 

[CASEACE79]

Here is the Caravela forum.
http://forum.caravelamods.pt/
And here's the list for the vaper v2 by Peter K
http://www.vaporwall.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=222&t=4395

You're going to have to sign up on the forums to sign up on the list. The wall is great for finding PVs and attys made overseas.

 

[jasl90]

Crap... Just noticed that I newer responded... Thank you for posting the links!

 

[CASEACE79]

No worries. This place is huge and hard to keep up with every topic you've commented on.


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