PACT ACT Concerns!

[The Wiz]

TV, the "final solution" to the smoker/vaper problem ?

Jerry....Not sure if your a snus/snuffer or not....but have no fear e-cigs are next on the list...I have a feeling it's going to be a bad year for all of us!! Might we have acted sooner with protecting our vaping rights or had at least done more testing when the window of oppertunity was still open!!

Pushing that button!!(Hounds away!)
The Wiz!

 

[Suds]

TV, not sure what you're talking about traveling to Pa, but if it's to Northern's warehouse that won't work unless they change their business model. I sent off to the about picking up at the warehouse and was informed that couldn't be done.

That being said, you never know if they might make changes as PACT takes affect. I sure hope so.

According to the thread on the getsnus forums, Swedish Match has already bought a cigar store in PA.
GetSnus.com forum - PACT passes senate

 

[AllCoExPat]

Hummm... It will be interesting to see if any of our local smoke shops start carrying a broader selection of snus/snuf across the board... Lets be honest, taxes or not, I'm gonna get my fix one way or another. I have no idea what the demand for it would be like. It's easy to pick out a smoker walking down the street, but snus and snuff are just so darn discreet. There's also the unfortunate that many who don't know any better think it's the same thing as Skoal. Other than the one other person in my office who's a snuser, everyone else who has come by my desk and seen the can sitting there has universally said... wait for it... "Ewwww... you're dipping?" After some 'splaining, some get it and some don't.

It's good to see at least one of our snus vendors setting up storefront operations. I travel to Maryland a few times a year to visit family, so for me at least hopping up to PA to stock up ain't no thing.

 

[JerryRM]

Jerry....Not sure if your a snus/snuffer or not....but have no fear e-cigs are next on the list...I have a feeling it's going to be a bad year for all of us!! Might we have acted sooner with protecting our vaping rights or had at least done more testing when the window of oppertunity was still open!!

Pushing that button!!(Hounds away!)
The Wiz!

Wiz, no I don't use snus, I just vape, but I am concerned for my friends who use snus.

I don't believe that we could have done anything more to protect snus or ecigs, they were doomed from the start.

Look at the facts:

They are a threat to the profits of BP and BT.

They are a threat to the States income from cigarette excise taxes.

They are a threat to the anti's "quit or die" mentality and their goal of a perfect society, that lives and breathes by their rules.

We all know that the FDA supports their positions.

There are just too many powerful people, whose toes snus and e-cigs have stepped on. We are a small, unorganized and financially strapped group, compared to those who are against us.

We are doing our best, considering what little that we have, but it's David against Goliath.

I hate to sound so pessimistic, but that's the way I see it.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

The dang thing is it's gonna be harder, I think, for skeptical folks to try Swedish snus if they have to pay the same price as smokes. Sure, a can of snus lasts longer than a pack of smokes, but I doubt that makes a difference to someone who hasn't experienced the benefits. I only have myself as an example, but putting myself back to the day I decided I'd give snus a go, I really feel I'd have bought a pack instead. Until I had physically tried it, regardless of what I'd read on the forum, I still seen snus in the same light as chew . Obviously, I was wrong, but what put me over the edge was the cheap investment. Now that PactAct levels the playing field pricewise, I'm afraid it'll keep wouldbe snusers away. Curse you BT, and those law-making pukes you carry in your pockets

 

[W Axl Rose]

Is there any way possible to get rid of the pukes? Besides sniping I mean? As voters, what can we do to make a difference? Writing letters and calling obviously has not effect. Do we have a lobbyist?

 

[TropicalBob]

I think snus and e-cigs are in for different fates. Right now, our federal government -- forget Judge Leon's temporary reprieve -- says e-cigs are illegal drug delivery devices and the liquid is an illegal drug. That position seems only to have strengthened in recent months.

But snus are legal. All the major Big Tobacco players see snus as a growing part of their product line. PM, RJR and P. Lorrilard all have snus products in play in America. And all can be legally sold by your friendly local tobacco store.

That's really all government wants here. By ordering online from overseas, all taxation can be avoided. By ordering online in the states, state taxes can be avoided (as long as the merchant is in a different state). By banning shipments through the mails to individuals, the government assures collection of both state and federal tobacco taxes. That's all at stake with snus -- and cigs and cigars and pipe tobacco and snuff.

Not so with e-cigs. They are everyone's target to ban. I do not see the path to legal recognition getting easier, either. Every day, it's a new enemy. Every day, uglier and uglier things are said on this forum about those who will regulate us -- whether we're a drug or tobacco product. No one is being "won over". Enemies have been made and the battle lines more distinctly drawn.

The war will be over only when e-cigs and e-liquid are illegal to sell in the U.S.

To get your snus, make sure your local tobacco store stocks them (General will sell all of its products to a tobacco shop). It should be a no-brainer for the shop owner: As cigarette sales decline, smokers still wanting a nicotine fix need to buy alternatives. Let the local shop sell those alternatives.

 

[JerryRM]

I agree Bob, snus will survive, for now, but what will it cost when the state and federal sin taxes are added to the price? It may be too expensive for many people, just like tobacco is now, in many states.

The antis will not rest, if e-cigs are banned. They will continue to go after snus and all forms of tobacco use. They want us to "quit or die" and they have the attention of the politicians, we don't.

 

[TropicalBob]

The taxation on snus, and several other items, will be so much per ounce. Given the weight of snus and snuff, taxes should NOT be a problem. The potential killer tax at this time is proposed for pipe tobacco, which I puff -- from about $2 a pound to $24 a pound.

 

[JerryRM]

The taxation on snus, and several other items, will be so much per ounce. Given the weight of snus and snuff, taxes should NOT be a problem. The potential killer tax at this time is proposed for pipe tobacco, which I puff -- from about $2 a pound to $24 a pound.

We felt the same way about cigarettes a few years ago. Taxes are not stationary, they change and always they go up, not down.

The taxes on loose cigarette tobacco went through the roof, shortly after Obama was sworn into office. The "roll your own" smokers switched to pipe tobacco, so now the congress wants to raise the tax on pipe tobacco, to equal the tax on cigarette tobacco.

 

[Dredbull]

just another drop of blood from the stone.

Also I am not some big politico but come congress and senate vote time I will fire the good ole local tribes up against every single one who voted on the pact etc.

Guess what in this state was all of them....

 

[Stubby]

That's really all government wants here. By ordering online from overseas, all taxation can be avoided. By ordering online in the states, state taxes can be avoided (as long as the merchant is in a different state). By banning shipments through the mails to individuals, the government assures collection of both state and federal tobacco taxes. That's all at stake with snus -- and cigs and cigars and pipe tobacco and snuff.


To get your snus, make sure your local tobacco store stocks them (General will sell all of its products to a tobacco shop). It should be a no-brainer for the shop owner: As cigarette sales decline, smokers still wanting a nicotine fix need to buy alternatives. Let the local shop sell those alternatives.

You fell off the wagon a bit with the banning shipments through the mail to individuals. There is nothing in the PACT act that bans shipments. Of course it does ban shipping via USPS, but as of current policy UPS does ship snus and nasal snuff, but not cigarettes, and they haven't for some time. I have heard of no reliable source that says that's going to change. State and Fed tax will be paid at the point of sale. Clubsnus has already stated they will continue to sell snus, legally, after the PACT act goes into effect. There are two other sellers with US warehouses. We shall see how long it takes for them to follow.

UPS already has age verification in place at a cost of $4.00. Nothing new there for them. I'm going with what is known, and not with what I think might happen, or an opinion, but the facts.

 

[Vaporer]

Now that the health crisis crap is done..............I'd say signing the Pact Axe will be swift.

Final line........you'll pay more with more hassle.

 

[Dredbull]

another sneak bill they slide in the tobacco taxation.. bet you all missed that one!!

how else are they going to pay for the millions of non paying welfare hags and the millions of illegal vampires sucking this country dry?

 

[The Wiz]

another sneak bill they slide in the tobacco taxation.. bet you all missed that one!!

how else are they going to pay for the millions of non paying welfare hags and the millions of illegal vampires sucking this country dry?

DB....Time for the 3% of the American public who make 250k and up to start sharing the wealth....LOL. 3%???? Does Obama really think that taxing those folks higher will pay for the spending of this health care bill and other government backed projects? The middle class is going to get the ax here also!!

Welcome to America 2010(The New Europe)

The Wiz!

 

[Dredbull]

house bill 4439 is what I referring to.

I shall coin the new revolution the "Snuff wars" since the smokeless subsection is going to take it in the shorts.

 

[Stubby]

house bill 4439 is what I referring to.

I shall coin the new revolution the "Snuff wars" since the smokeless subsection is going to take it in the shorts.

That's the bill that would raise Fed tax on pipe tobacco. This came about because when the Feds raised the tax on RYO tobacco in April 09 by about 2400% the manufactures started labeling there RYO tobacco as pipe tobacco, which has a much lower tax rate. This bill would raise the pipe tobacco tax to the same as RYO tobacco.

http://pipesmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/H.R. 4439 Bill.pdf

Nothing to do with snuff from what I can find unless they have changed it.

 

[Dredbull]

Well I know they have raised the hell out of it here.
25+ a pound for pipe and ryo.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

That settles it, I was gonna just use my pitchfork......all this talk has me so stirred up I'll make sure it's cherry-red !!

 

[W Axl Rose]

You know. Politicians suck. Do we need a rebellion or something? I THINK TV just might be willing to lead it.