PBusardo removed the vid for Freetovape

[smacuser]

Here's this:

Taste Your Juice | Search Results freetovape

 

[Uma]

If you read the CASAA blog post with the overview of CASAA's plan, you will see that they have invested in a program to do just that, and they have already used it on some recent CTA's.

well I'll be darned.

As mentioned in the link I posted earlier, CASAA has already implimented CQ Roll Call, which also looks up your representatives for you.

From that CASAA blog post:



We've already used in a few state-level CTAs since we got it, including California, Vermont, Delaware and New York:
CASAA CQ Roll Call page

well I'll be double darned.
Thank you so much for making things easier for the not so avg bear who went through one too many non-stress-free-zones throughout life and therefore sometimes have severe problems with even the simplistic of tasks and decisions. I applaud you all! Thanks.
P.s. My apologies for not reading the whole blog post about it.. That's part of my bouncy problem at times.

By they way, here is something else everyone can do, and I think I made it REALLY easy...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...really-easy-people-do-something-positive.html

Way cool! Love it.

 

[roosterado]

I belong to the Minnesota Vapers Advocacy Facebook group.There is concern about fragmentation in the battle. That All Advocacy organisations need to deliver a unified message that will have to most impact. There a lengthy thread in the facebook group and I invite any and all interested in advocacy to join Minnesota Vapers Advocacy Group. IN Mn this spring a legislative effort to include e-cig in the states Indoor Clean Air was defeated,thanks in part to The Minnesota Vapers Advocacy Group-The Vapers Militia -Cassa-Local Vendors representatives-testimony at hearing by all including private citizens and others.

 

[aikanae1]

^ MN Vapors also has a fantastic website. That's where I learned the FDA had already approved PG for inhalation. A lot of good stuff.

I guess that's one of the reasons I tend to view CASAA more as an umbrella organization and all these others are spokes. Obviously there still needs to be guidelines, directions and especially with the FDA, very specific protocals need to be followed by those who want the maximum impact. However that's not "everyone".

One of my hopes was that these reviewers (and I've gotten quite a few emails from vendors) know their audience and know what attracts them to take action - and I'm hoping that many of them are not currently tapped into CASAA (for whatever reason). Just even on ECF, the numbers registered and active doesn't equal the membership in CASAA. I don't understand why that is, it just is, and I don't see it a fault of CASAA either. But just reading the Calif legislative fight, it was apparent that quite a few b&m owners didn't know about CASAA, legislation in their state and couldn't inform their customers either.

I think it's safe to say a fair number of vapers are ignorant as to what's happening, probably vendors as well. I'm hoping these reviewers / other vendors know what will reach those vapers in the void. I think it's important to remember that in these forums on ECF we are preaching to the choir on most issue and live in a bubble where we do have access to this information, but that's not the norm.

That's why I really hated hearing people put the effort down without really giving it a chance. If their projections turn out to be correct, the response could dwarf CASAA's membership. They would be awakened and hopefully brought into the fold in the future. This is shear faith on my part that they know something "we" may not - and that can happen. But I'll sleep better at night knowing I gave them a shot, whether it works or not.

The website is a work in progress and they seem aware of it and on top of it with concerns. If their intentions are sincere (I don't doubt they are) and they are as determined as they say, if a IP gets blocked, they will get around it. Not everyone was to get faxed copies, some were being printed and hand delivered. I know one of those was the HELP committee, which is a committee that's hard for most vapers to gain access to. It's just slightly atypical and just enough out of the box that it may work, IMO. Whoever said it was absolutley right that many of these folks are guarded against public opinion and that's what it might take to get heard. We shall see. It's a jump off the cliff, but stranger things have happened.

But the biggest benefit would be getting those vapers and vendors in the void, into the fold of what's happening. I don't know if this will do it - but I don't see the effort hurting to try and reach them. My fingers are crossed they get the response they are projecting.

 

[Asbestos4004]

I got news for everyone in case you didn't already know. They don't care about what anyone says or wants they will get their way this comes down to money just like everything else in life. Sorry but we stand no chance so whatever is coming will come and there is no point wasting any time fighting it.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Xparent Skyblue Tapatalk 2

I hope we're never occupying the same foxhole.

 

[kristin]

CASAA isn't telling the community they cannot use the FTV website.

We do ask that if CASAA members do use it to submit a well-thought and informed comment and share the link to FTV, please ALSO do the CASAA Calls to Action and share a link to our plan overview: CASAA: Overview of CASAA's Action Plan Regarding Proposed FDA Regulations and each Call to Action. Doing one is not the same as doing the other.

CASAA is not affiliated with FTV, so cannot speak to any concerns expressed about the website, but as far as we are aware the organizers are considered by many to be respected members of the vaping community and have no ill intent.

 

[Rangertrix]

I simply think CASAA is trying to approach our "argument" in a professional manner, and in the same manner a lobbyist would. I think pbusardo did the only thing a rational person would. Pull back and think "am I doing the best thing for the cause I'm trying to promote?"
I'm glad that someone, such as Phil, is putting that much thought and care into a cause that I care deeply about.
Not that many public figures put that much thought and care into what they want to present to the public.
If we don't approach this as any other lobbyist group would and put it all in the proper "bureaucratize" then we will be dismissed as just another fringe group.
Put simply, I think CASAA and Phil just want us to be taken seriously.

 

[patkin]

Personally, I've never been one to put all my eggs in one basket during my entire life. I don't plan to start doing that now. Also, very, very personally, its been hard enough dealing with FDA threats to my health without seeing such dissension and in-fighting in the vape community. Its just absolutely ludicrous to me how anyone could entertain the view that anyone, especially a vendor, would do anything they thought might harm their or the vaping community's interests. Human nature never ceases to amaze me and, sometimes, not in a good way. I've seen so many wild accussations, statements and back-peddling on them without taking responsibility for being a human-being going off half-cocked that I've lost respect. That, too, has saddened me greatly. I will continue lending support as my conscience and hopes for success dictate and pray this in-fighting stops before its too late for all of us with previously held respect is gone forever.

 

[aikanae1]

Personally, I've never been one to put all my eggs in one basket during my entire life. I don't plan to start doing that now. Also, very, very personally, its been hard enough dealing with FDA threats to my health without seeing such dissension and in-fighting in the vape community. Its just absolutely ludicrous to me how anyone could entertain the view that anyone, especially a vendor, would do anything they thought might harm their or the vaping community's interests. Human nature never ceases to amaze me and, sometimes, not in a good way. I've seen so many wild accussations, statements and back-peddling on them without taking responsibility for being a human-being going off half-cocked that I've lost respect. That, too, has saddened me greatly. I will continue lending support as my conscience and hopes for success dictate and pray this in-fighting stops before its too late for all of us with previously held respect is gone forever.

I wouldn't call this in-fighting and it certainly doesn't involve taking sides. The goals are the same and haven't changed. If anything, I've seen some healthy criticism and debate (although a little heated at times) along with a greater understanding of differing perspectives involved (which isn't the same as "back peddeling" or "cya").

Whenever ideas are developed by a select group of people, it's easy for those ideas to be contained only within that bubble. To break out requires change which never feels comfortable or smooth, but the core concepts remain the same. That's the price of growth adding new voices and ideas to the mix. The difficult part is remaining fluid enough to adapt and incorporate all the concepts without diluting the core mission. Not a single one of these groups has compromised their core missions, nor have they needed to. In a way, it's more as lateral growth rather than hierarchal structural growth. Lateral development is also much harder for opposition to get a grasp on. Think more of a simplified mesh structure and that appears to be the most successful grass roots developments. No one party, organization or gov't can get a "handle" on it. The debates right now are very foundational and had to happen, sooner better than later.

Basically, it's all good and each one deserves as much attention as a person can give, yet allows for involvement of anyone at their level; inclusive, not exclusive. Those that are not CASAA members probably would not be prepared to submit "substantive comments" addressng FDA questions anyway.

If the FDA isn't prepared to hangle a flood of public opinions, that's not our fault. If Congress and their committees aren't prepared, well then that's a different story and maybe one they'll need to re-examine. But first we need to fight to be heard. I intend to hold FTV true to their word that they will do their best to make sure that happens.

I really wish FTV also had incorporated a stronger message for CASAA membership as I am really mystified why their membership is not over 100k by now. That alone, could be a topic because the CASAA membership is still a tiny fraction of the vaping public or even of active registered users on ECF. But on another thread.

PBsuardo mentioned that he expected to put the FTV banner back up and cited concerns by CASAA which included some security issues that the website seemed to respond to quickly. He was in on the planning stages.

Few websites are successful when they first go live. MM's took a good 6 painful months of trial and error before an order for Pluid could be processed successfully. Most sites aren't as torturous to get up and running, but it's not unheard of. The ability to respond quickly is essential too. If an IP is blocked, they need to adapt to get around it, including printing off every comment to submit them all as hard copies. That's not cheap, yet I don't see huge donation buttons either so I'm assuming folks have ponied up their own funding.

Like I've said earlier, my sincere hope is that they are as determined as we are to be heard, and to make sure that vapers are heard from. To my knowledge, no one organization has ever attempted hand delivery of hard copies to an isolated agency such as HELP before. That maybe just enough out of the box to work. We shall see.

 

[DC2]

I wouldn't call this in-fighting and it certainly doesn't involve taking sides. The goals are the same and haven't changed. If anything, I've seen some healthy criticism and debate (although a little heated at times) along with a greater understanding of differing perspectives involved (which isn't the same as "back peddeling" or "cya").

Whenever ideas are developed by a select group of people, it's easy for those ideas to be contained only within that bubble. To break out and envelope more requires change which is never comfortable or smooth. The price of growth involves adding new voices and ideas to the mix. The orgainizing agency needs to be fluid enough to adapt and incorporate all the concepts without loosing the core mission. Not a single one of these groups has compromised their core missions, nor do they need to. Think of it more as lateral rather than a hierarchal structure. Lateral is also much harder to dilute or get a hold of by oppositions; i.e. simplified mesh.

Basically, it's all good and all deserves as much attention as a person can give and allows for involvement for anyone at their level; inclusive, not exclusive. I really wish FTV also had incorporated a stronger message for CASAA membership as I am really mystified why their membership is not over 100k by now.

Liked the post, but thought extra emphasis on what you said would be useful...
So I also quoted it, and made this useless reply as well.

 

[patkin]

I'm sure some of what I've seen here and elsewhere has been started by moles for lack of a better description.. but, yeh, of the ANTZ mentality. My dismay, however, has been how easily they were followed and their "concerns" were repeated (again, not just here).... bound to happen I guess... I'll get over it. Good post aikanae (dang that's hard to remeber to type... had to keep scrolling up)

 

[aikanae1]

I'm sure some of what I've seen here and elsewhere has been started by moles for lack of a better description.. but, yeh, of the ANTZ mentality. My dismay, however, has been how easily they were followed and their "concerns" were repeated (again, not just here).... bound to happen I guess... I'll get over it. Good post aikanae (dang that's hard to remember to type... had to keep scrolling up)

Actually I think people are expecting a hierarchal structure where there's top down instructions and the reality today (with the internet) that as an organization grows it usually expands laterally, with multiple groups / teams taking on various functions and not following the traditional organizational methods that gov't, military, banks, corps use. For it to work, everyone needs to be motivated around a core mission (which I think vapers are), openness (sharing information like on ECF) and transparency. A lot of the threads in ECF aren't so much in-fighting as they are debates, brainstorming and collaborative ideas, none of that follows the more traditional methods of organizational development. This type of organizing results in something very fluid, almost organic in it's ability to adapt to changes rapidly and incorporating changing needs.

At least IMO this is the way I see it going. I've heard of several results from this style on ECF from WTA to CASAA. It's also hard for corporate and gov't types to wrap their heads around, which is why they don't really see most of us "existing". It'll be another 20 years before they catch up - and I think some of this is that they don't want to change to the open development model that most of us have enjoyed for almost 10 years now. I think that's what they consider the "wild, wild west". Enough of that.

I think people should get used to these active debates and stop calling them "politics". I don't see the power struggle that comes with politcs. No one is trying to convince anyone of taking sides, etc. If anything, certain members sounded more like they expected to have to choose when the reality is they don't have to divide loyalties at all. Both groups can have a point, similar objectives that have value to the whole without conflict.

 

[Nikkita6]

Not necessarily. Look how Malcolm X and Dr. King fundamentally disagreed on the "right" way to make change. Change still happened.

This ......