"PelosiCare" was Unveiled today you can read the bill here

[sattec]

medicare is bankrupt, postal service is bankrupt, social security is bankrupt, defict is higher than ever and the bill nobody reads or understands is gonna reform medical care????? no way, it's another boon doggle...who wrote this bill? They were not elected by the people to write bills.

 

[Surf Monkey]

medicare is bankrupt, postal service is bankrupt, social security is bankrupt, defict is higher than ever and the bill nobody reads or understands is gonna reform medical care????? no way, it's another boon doggle...who wrote this bill? They were not elected by the people to write bills.

The bill isn't intended to reform Medicare. And as far as the efficacy of the Medicare system goes, just suggest to some retirees that you think it's broken and see what kind of reaction you get. Further, rather than cherry pick some programs that you think aren't working out, consider the many thousands of government programs that work excellently. NASA, the National Parks, Interstate Freeways... the list goes on and on. Yet no opponent of health care reform ever seems to remember those examples.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Agreed, but how loosely should we interpret before the true meaning goes out the window? I guess that's subject, also. To me, taxation without representation is taking from me money I worked for and spent on a cause I don't believe in ( a long list that, I speculate, some would debate). Much could be interpreted, I suppose, but, I think it was probably linked to a kingdom that was driven to support its wims, not just its defenses, and also used as punishment for desenters.

 

[sattec]

The bill isn't intended to reform Medicare. (I didn't say it was, my point is government makes a mess of everything it touches ) And as far as the efficacy of the Medicare system goes, just suggest to some retirees that you think it's broken and see what kind of reaction you get ( it's broken and the 400 plus billion in cuts will make it worse, the funding is all borrowed money, 12 trillion debt remember but YOUR NOT AFRAID OF DEFICIT SPENDING ARE YOU? ). Further, rather than cherry pick some programs that you think aren't working out (note that I chose the large programs like SS which you avoid), consider the many thousands of government programs that work excellently. NASA, the National Parks, Interstate Freeways... the list goes on and on.( I have no prove any of the programs mentioned are not a boon doggle and wasting money faster than the feds can print it) Yet no opponent of health care reform ever seems to remember those examples.( because we are not told the truth about anything anymore, we have very little knowledge regarding the health of those programs, any of them could be on the front page tommorrow, why not?)

..................

 

[Surf Monkey]

Yeah, I see where you're coming from on that. I agree that there have to be some limits on interpretation. My issue is with the "strict constructionist" viewpoint, which I strongly believe is contrary to the intent of the founders.

 

[Surf Monkey]

sattec: your post confirms my impression of your position: you distrust the government no matter what. Given that fact, there's really no reason to even discuss it with you.

 

[sattec]

shoot the messenger when the message isn't what you what to hear,right? Make it about me instead of the thread topic, avoid issues, avoid truth.....So you must trust government no matter what, I suppose.....

 

[olderthandirt]

wake up, Buddy. The bottle's empty and a mole from your garden took over your waders. Your son has the tickets and the plane's ready for take-off!

Wake up? I'm in need of a nap!

Yep, got what I could out of this silly bill. sattec makes some good points regarding fed agencies that are hurting for funds. OBTW I believe sattec referenced "the bill nobody reads or understands is gonna reform medical care" not medicare.

Course, IMHO there would be more funds available for medical care insurance assistance and reform and all the other goodies various groups are after if the US wasn't the soul "cop o' the world". But that's another thread....

Listened to an interview between Ron Paul and Larry King couple nights back. Ol' Ron makes more sense the more I listen to him. Particularly enjoyed his distinction between capitalism and what he refers to as corporationalism.

Well Twisted, the waders are patched, mole ran away, bottles full. My most recent work contract ran out last week, back on the dole for a while. Bright side to that is it gives me time to perhaps get a little more involved in some of the local politics. Might learn something.

Oop! time for some popcorn?

 

[olderthandirt]

Hey sattec, lotta valid points comin out of your corner. What's your thoughts on the direction we, country, should be going to turn all this BS around.

No pot shots from me

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

The bill isn't intended to reform Medicare. And as far as the efficacy of the Medicare system goes, just suggest to some retirees that you think it's broken and see what kind of reaction you get. Further, rather than cherry pick some programs that you think aren't working out, consider the many thousands of government programs that work excellently. NASA, the National Parks, Interstate Freeways... the list goes on and on. Yet no opponent of health care reform ever seems to remember those examples.

Hundreds of billions of dollars isn't cherry picking to me. Yes, the government does fund good organizations. Semi trucks haul a lot of cargo in the hands of a skilled driver, but that doesn't mean he won't run me over if I step in front of him. Our tax money pays for everything. Even a failing program they'll keep pouring our money into until there's no more, then they raise taxes, again. I think that's the point Sattec is making.

 

[sattec]

people need to vote, simply as that. If the country as a whole or majority really want marxism or socialism then the rest of us need to take our families and money and move out, simply as that. I'm betting the majority want capitalism....then fix the schools, they don't really teach anymore, the rest will fix it self if you teach the kids REAL history....

 

[sattec]

Our tax money pays for everything. Even a failing program they'll keep pouring our money into until there's no more, then they raise taxes, again.

it's worse than that, they are borrowing the money, our taxes can't sustain us, we must borrow to survive day to day....deficit spending doesn't bother the young people, they went to the new schools....when we got off the gold standard..charge, charge,charge was all we did.....some people think FOX news is the problem....lmao....they're just a tv show!

 

[olderthandirt]

people need to vote, simply as that. If the country as a whole or majority really want marxism or socialism then the rest of us need to take our families and money and move out, simply as that. I'm betting the majority want capitalism....then fix the schools, they don't really teach anymore, the rest will fix it self if you teach the kids REAL history....

Agreed to a point. I honestly wonder if there could possibly be a blend of socialism/capitalism that could succeed. I only bring that up cuz this ol' world is changing. Global everything. Just talking there....

Did ya catch my reference to Ron Paul and his term corporationalism? I do appreciate what capitalism has done for us in the past, like to think there would be someway to continue on with less government involvement... again, just talking...

There's what I was after. This day and age how does a person figure out how to vote? Continual "lesser of two evils" thing!

 

[sattec]

This day and age how does a person figure out how to vote? Continual "lesser of two evils" thing!

thats the problem, what went on in NY-23 is a perfect example. The vetted republican candidate supported by the RNC, is sending her support to the democrat...wtf??? somebody lied or the RNC is way more left than I thought they were....

 

[sattec]

I honestly wonder if there could possibly be a blend of socialism/capitalism that could succeed.

oh, for sure, it could, but not with this bunch, they're from the old school, this all about power, huge power and a new world order....every heard of that before, a new world order, your watching it happen, we won't be policing the world much longer, those days are over. No, in the future, we'll be the ones policed.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

sattec: your post confirms my impression of your position: you distrust the government no matter what. Given that fact, there's really no reason to even discuss it with you.

Sorry all, my connection is behind the times so I may be a day or two behind. Surf, sattec's position is mine, as well. I don't like it to be that way. I love my country and truly am proud of it's heritage, so to speak out against my government might seem otherwise. They brought it on.
To sit by idley is no longer an option for me. This day you and I have the right to do what we're doing, but how long until it's suppressed or extinguished all together? I see us headed on that course. If I'm wrong nothing is lost, if I'm right...

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

"New World Order". Yes, we're on the threshold. Ron Paul .

 

[olderthandirt]

Let me be the 1st to reaffirm to the world at large that I am an ignorant man. But I ain't stoopid

What I'm aware of when folks speak of the "New World Order" is staggering! Once again it boils down to how does one determine who or what to believe?

Rather than go down the path of he said/she said and have you read this and it's all right here and well you should just check out this site and, and, and...

S'pose it's true. S'pose there are cabals that are generational in existence, systematically working towards world domination and whatever other goals. With that accepted what would be the most effective way to combat such a scenario?

Some hold forth that legislation such as the point of this thread, HR 3962, is just another device leading us towards the NWO. How do we combat it?

The more strident voices and red faces are doomed to self-defeat. They just won't be received. There could well be factions attempting to take over. I am an ignorant man, I don't honestly know. I do put forth though that those that do honestly KNOW probably aren't really talking too awfully much cuz the ones that actually know would be the ones involved.

As for this current bill, as much as I wanted to see it go, I'm not really likin' it so much as it stands. I'm not comfortable with the "better than nothing" attitude. I believe it's back to square one with this one. My reps will hear as much from me. For now that's all I can do.

But I do remain open to calm voices...

 

[Surf Monkey]

As for this current bill, as much as I wanted to see it go, I'm not really likin' it so much as it stands. I'm not comfortable with the "better than nothing" attitude. I believe it's back to square one with this one.

For the most part, I agree with that statement.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Ok, I think olderthandirt has me figured out. Yes, I also agree, too. This debate kicks up the feistiness in us all and we appear to have come to a dead end, so I suppose this should come to an end on that note. Sometimes I do struggle to contain my emotions, my great-grandmother was full blooded Cherokee and great-grandfather was full blooded Irish. As a token of truce I think we should all get drunk and scalp the white man. Are we all together on this one? And may the force be with you, Surf Monkey.