"PelosiCare" was Unveiled today you can read the bill here

[olderthandirt]

...As a token of truce I think we should all get drunk and scalp the white man. Are we all together on this one? And may the force be with you, Surf Monkey.

Ermm, Around 4PM my time I'll tip a shot a rum to that thought twisted, course the years have already scalped this white man

 

[Surf Monkey]

Are we all together on this one? And may the force be with you, Surf Monkey.

LOL

The force is strong with this one.

Yeah, I think we're approaching the same page here. I was looking for a significant reform of the health care system and it appears that we're not going to get it. I think Obama made a serious strategic error by allowing Congress to draft the legislation. He should have taken the (dreaded) Clinton route and originated the bill in the White House. The Congress can't produce anything that isn't deeply compromised, as is evidenced by the current state of the bill. I'm still hopeful that it'll make a positive difference, but I wouldn't characterize it as a successful attempt to do a comprehensive reform of the system and that's a BIG disappointment for me.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Ok, olderthandirt, it may not be 4:00 in your time zone, yet, but it is in Indiana, so for all us in the mid-west I think it's time to post your pet dead horse and close this one. Surf, one of these days I say we look into global warming and cap/trade. Ha Ha. And sattec, I'll expect you to show up, too. How 'bout those boogernatoral results today, ah? See you guys around-Vic

 

[olderthandirt]

Close enough to 4:00 for me. Don't 'spose we can do anymore damage to this one so, cheers!

 

[TaketheRedPill]

I don't have to read it, I"m already all for it. Why? Because something is better then nothing. And nothing is what I have right now

"On Nov. 2, the Congressional Budget Office estimated what the plans will likely cost. An individual earning $44,000 before taxes who purchases his own insurance will have to pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, which is 17% of his pre-tax income. A family earning $102,100 a year before taxes will have to pay a $15,000 premium plus an estimated $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a $20,300 total, or 20% of its pre-tax income. Individuals and families earning less than these amounts will be eligible for subsidies paid directly to their insurer."

If you couldn't afford it before, how the blazes are you going to afford it now?

ya'll been had.

TTRP

 

[Justncredible]

I disagree with some of this but it might get thru to some.


YouTube - Make Mine Freedom (1948)

 

[denec]

You all act as though this thing is law. It's only the House version and is still in trouble in the Senate, with a different bill. Once this goes to conference (assuming the Senate passes a version) you won't recognize this or the Senate bill, but it will be a bill written by tax cheat Rangle, Waxman and the other flunky who is the chairman of whatever committee, along with Pelosi, Reid, Schumer, Baucus and other Dems in the Senate. This is not the best bill that could have been written or passed. The best bill would have had both parties at the table and considered all the options. Then they could have had something that actually addressed the real problems in Health Care and not taken care of special interests such as the lawyers. It has to start with Tort Reform because without it the doctors will just have to keep paying higher prices for malpractice insurance and that cost will be passed on to us. Then if you fail to join the plan you will be fined a quarter of a million dollars and be subject to a five year jail term as a felon. The sleeping giant is just beginning to stretch right now and will be fully awake come next November. With any luck he'll kick the Dems out of control of both houses but especially the House of Rep. and that will force Pelosi to resign as the queen bee doesn't want to have to be a worker bee again. That would be beneath her and I can't wait to see her gone. I don't know about you, but I can't wait for the next two elections. With any luck we'll get a veto proof Republican Congress that will rescind this bill before it takes effect and start all over again. This plan is brought to you by the ones who wanted to help people who were single moms and instead caused more illegitimate births because it paid more to have more illegitimate children. Wonder where the money is going to come from? How could I be so silly? China, of course.

 

[mudmanc4]

You all act as though this thing is law. It's only the House version and is still in trouble in the Senate, with a different bill. Once this goes to conference (assuming the Senate passes a version) you won't recognize this or the Senate bill, but it will be a bill written by tax cheat Rangle, Waxman and the other flunky who is the chairman of whatever committee, along with Pelosi, Reid, Schumer, Baucus and other Dems in the Senate. This is not the best bill that could have been written or passed.


The best bill would have had both parties at the table and considered all the options. Then they could have had something that actually addressed the real problems in Health Care and not taken care of special interests such as the lawyers. It has to start with Tort Reform because without it the doctors will just have to keep paying higher prices for malpractice insurance and that cost will be passed on to us.


Then if you fail to join the plan you will be fined a quarter of a million dollars and be subject to a five year jail term as a felon. The sleeping giant is just beginning to stretch right now and will be fully awake come next November. With any luck he'll kick the Dems out of control of both houses but especially the House of Rep. and that will force Pelosi to resign as the queen bee doesn't want to have to be a worker bee again. That would be beneath her and I can't wait to see her gone.


I don't know about you, but I can't wait for the next two elections. With any luck we'll get a veto proof Republican Congress that will rescind this bill before it takes effect and start all over again.


This plan is brought to you by the ones who wanted to help people who were single moms and instead caused more illegitimate births because it paid more to have more illegitimate children. Wonder where the money is going to come from? How could I be so silly? China, of course.

I only quoted you so others that skimmed your post, would maybe read it, and understand that this seems to be right on track for the better part of the conscious people in America, awesome post.

 

[Stormynights]

Years ago you could buy hospitalization insurance. It was affordable but it didn't cover every doctor visit and prescription. It only paid if you were in the hospital. You paid for tests and everthing yourself. Nobody wants that option anymore. Insurance companies have to make money to stay in business. When it comes out of your pocket you don't run to the doctor every time you sneeze. The only time the emergency room bill was cover was if you were hospitalized. If you went to the emergency room there was no wait to see a doctor. This was a good plan and it worked.

I don't have any health insurance and haven't for years. I can't afford it. If I got sick I wouldn't be able to keep up the premiums. I am still not for the health care bill. If we could go back to the old way I would be for it. I don't want my tax dollars to go to pay someones bill that goes to the emergency room every time they fart.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Even though the House bill includes some very significant and needed regulations on the insurance system, I don't consider the legislation true health care reform. They've even rechristened it "health insurance reform." The Senate will water it down even worse. I expect the only thing to survive will be an expensive government run HMO comprised of existing insurance companies and no public plan. The pre-existing condition ban will probably survive too.

Ultimately though, this bill appears to be a huge payoff for the insurance companies and runs the serious risk of making people who can't afford health insurance into criminals. Unless something drastic changes before the Senate passes it, I'm filing this under "it has to get worse before it gets better." I no longer support the bill. Without either single payer or a public option it's gutted and meaningless.

America will eventually move from private insurance to a public option and from there to single payer. There was an opportunity to get to the end game in one big leap, but Obama's strategy failed. Now we'll have to wait another 20 years to get where we're inevitably going. It's sad and I'm concerned that it's going to bankrupt a lot of low income Americans in the process. Possibly millions of them.

 

[Mac]

Even though the House bill includes some very significant and needed regulations on the insurance system, I don't consider the legislation true health care reform. They've even rechristened it "health insurance reform." The Senate will water it down even worse. I expect the only thing to survive will be an expensive government run HMO comprised of existing insurance companies and no public plan. The pre-existing condition ban will probably survive too.

Ultimately though, this bill appears to be a huge payoff for the insurance companies and runs the serious risk of making people who can't afford health insurance into criminals. Unless something drastic changes before the Senate passes it, I'm filing this under "it has to get worse before it gets better." I no longer support the bill. Without either single payer or a public option it's gutted and meaningless.

America will eventually move from private insurance to a public option and from there to single payer. There was an opportunity to get to the end game in one big leap, but Obama's strategy failed. Now we'll have to wait another 20 years to get where we're inevitably going. It's sad and I'm concerned that it's going to bankrupt a lot of low income Americans in the process. Possibly millions of them.

Well surf, if you no longer support it, it must really have denegrated into a truly profound piece of crap. On the bright side this pretty much proves the people who have accused you of mindlessly supporting our current administration dead wrong.

 

[Drunkwaco]

I somewhat argee with Surf Monkey. At the begining it looked wonderful. I scared a lot of people and it was going to be massive change. But as it went closer and closer to the end. I watched as things were taken off to try and get votes. This bill is not what 2/3 of it's oringal size and some of the most important stuff was lost cause everyone scared insurance companys were not going to beable to compare and they'd go out of bussiness. I was pretty mad about this cause i know personally there is to many nutz that would be willing to overpay for there insurance just cause there scared of goverment run. I am very happen thou with a lot of laws that put in place with this. Even if It all vanishs overnight the laws are what matters
i think the best one is a insurance company can not cancel your insurance due to past illness. Also they can not turn you down.
But i think the thing that will help the most is the HC center there creating
We'll beable to band togather in large groups kinda like this forums and then sell our numbers to insurance companys kinda like a huge company would do. This will prove the most useful thing i think this will do.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Well surf, if you no longer support it, it must really have denegrated into a truly profound piece of crap. On the bright side this pretty much proves the people who have accused you of mindlessly supporting our current administration dead wrong.

Well, I could still be convinced that it's a good bill, but the chances of that seem more and more slim with each passing day. Leiberman is going to sink anything that has even a hint of reform attached to it anyway, so it's essentially dead on arrival. It's a shame that the Democrats don't really have a filibuster proof majority. They'll take all the heat for having compromised the bill so badly when in reality they seem to have had little choice. In the final accounting (for the House bill at least) conservative Republicans and Democrats effectively gutted the bill.

 

[Surf Monkey]

I am very happen thou with a lot of laws that put in place with this. Even if It all vanishs overnight the laws are what matters

Yeah, and I tend to agree with you there. As an insurance industry reform bill, it looks pretty good. The problem is that the addition of a health insurance mandate means that the insurance companies essentially extorted the government. They blackmailed the federal government by holding every person who caries insurance hostage. In exchange for some moderate regulations that should have been put in place a generation ago, they get a massive payoff in the form of billions of dollars in new federally mandated policies. It's great that pre-existing conditions won't make people uninsurable. It's great that there'll be a kind of HMO that people like me can join. It's great that the anti-trust exemptions that the industry has enjoyed for decades are being removed. But at what cost?

Without a robust public option it's just a big giveaway to private industry.

 

[sattec]

They sold out to special interest. Most of them don't care about the country as a whole, only their small world. Both parties.

 

[Surf Monkey]

They sold out to special interest. Most of them don't care about the country as a whole, only their small world. Both parties.

I've never disagreed with that.