Health Care Reform Bill VOTE NO!!!!

[Duckies]

the most funniest thing is i have got so many PM's from many members of this board saying thanks for debating in this thread and are behind me...

Not speaking to me, but I thought I would add -- As have I!

Yay us! W00t!

 

[Duckies]

Casey, thanks for your update to my 1st grader explanation of socialism/fascism yesterday. I dummed it down too much, and your note was MUCH better.

can't find the ignore fast enough

For the first time here, I exercised this. Allow me to assist with navigation.

Click on Username on a post then > View Private Profile > User Lists > Add to Ignore List

 

[denec]

this is why i hate democrats why are they rushing this which will cost taxpayers so much in the end, and will fail miserabily

Clinton told Esquire magazine that lawmakers should put together the best health care measure for President Barack Obama, even if it must be fixed later.

Clinton: GOP waiting for Democrats to 'mess up' - Yahoo! News


how about you take your time instead of rushing, and get it done right the first time? why is there an urgent need to rush this through? there is no healthcare crisis like the economic crisis we are facing right now

 

[Surf Monkey]

this is why i hate democrats why are they rushing this...

Nice repetition of an empty talking point. America has been working on health care reform for over two generations. The "rushing" line is pure anti-reform propaganda. Way to stay true to form, denec.

 

[denec]

Nice repetition of an empty talking point. America has been working on health care reform for over two generations. The "rushing" line is pure anti-reform propaganda. Way to stay true to form, denec.

it is not propaganda, maybe they would not have a hard time passing reform, if they would get it right and stop pushing it through without understanding what they are passing through

I don't even think the politicians know what they are trying to get through, to them it does not matter because they will not be using it, and the mess they will leave behind and how much we will pay for it

 

[Surf Monkey]

it is not propaganda

Yes it is.

 

[denec]

Yes it is.

to you it is...all i know is only 17% in this country is uninsured..to me that is not a crisis..and i bet most of them are not working, illegals, bottom feeders or what not, i wonder how many of those have big tv's, computers, take drugs, and other things they do not need when they can buy their own insurance if they really want.

i say to hell with them..it is not my job to pay for them...and that is what will happen

as i say time and time again...healthcare is not a right in this country according to the constitution

 

[Ridewithme38]

to you it is...all i know is only 17% in this country is uninsured..to me that is not a crisis..and i bet most of them are not working, illegals, bottom feeders or what not, i wonder how many of those have big tv's, computers, take drugs, and other things they do not need when they can buy their own insurance if they really want.

i say to hell with them..it is not my job to pay for them...and that is what will happen

as i say time and time again...healthcare is not a right in this country according to the constitution

"We hold this truth to be self-evident that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among this are life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. To secure this right goverments are instituted among men, deriving their just power form the constant of the governed;"

Now i would think you Life would be some how affected by healthcare...for a nation to withhold health care from its citizens not only will affect the Quality of that life, but the Quantity of life that person holds

 

[Casey C]

Casey, thanks for your update to my 1st grader explanation of socialism/fascism yesterday. I dummed it down too much, and your note was MUCH better.

LOL, I was hoping you wouldn't take offense to that..

 

[denec]

Now i would think you Life would be some how affected by healthcare...for a nation to withhold health care from its citizens not only will affect the Quality of that life, but the Quantity of life that person holds

we don't withhold life from our citizens..if it is an emergency we have plenty of ER's across our nation

and there are plenty of hospitals that treat people who have no insurance for free if you have some sort of illness like cancer but you will not get the best of care...but why should you?

 

[Surf Monkey]

we don't withhold life from our citizens..if it is an emergency we have plenty of ER's across our nation

That's a meaningless statement. The emergency room is not the appropriate place for most medical needs. It's for emergencies, not for things like on going therapy, detailed diagnostics and preventive care. Furthermore, emergency rooms are the most costly avenue to health care available. Going there is not a casual activity like going to your GP. The costs of emergency room visits can and do cause people to become ruined financially, something that wouldn't have to happen if more people had good coverage.

and there are plenty of hospitals that treat people who have no insurance for free if you have some sort of illness like cancer but you will not get the best of care...but why should you?

There are not "plenty of hospitals that treat people who have no insurance for free" and even if there were, do you think it's a good idea to force people to consider which hospital to go to when they've had an accident and need emergency care? "Can you take me to the hospital that's 10 miles away? I can't afford to go to the one that's right here."

Hospitals and emergency rooms are not a viable solution for life long health care.

 

[Surf Monkey]

as i say time and time again...healthcare is not a right in this country according to the constitution

Neither is digital copyright. Do you advocate pirating music and movies too? There's nothing in the constitution that protects them, so if you intend to be consistent you should support piracy of digital media.

 

[vapordad]

When folks use, "it is not a right in this country," they misunderstand why this country was founded. It wasn't founded with the constitution being the only rights, as a matter of fact, the constitution was written broadly so we could specify the rights of individuals. However, Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness is broad, yet health care is how we maintain Life--one of the basic rights--(or how it has evolved that we do), so it is closer to a right by our constitutional standards than digital copyright, so good point, Surf.

 

[vapordad]

Actually, I think the current bill misses the mark, and I am a bit disappointed with the way it has gone. I might start a whole new thread on the matter, as my thoughts are pretty lengthy and I think it would stimulate another line of thought on the matter. Careful, if I do, though, as it trys to bridge gaps.....of course it should only be read by those folks that understand that the USA has not been (nor will it be) a pure democracy, but a socialized democracy for many, many, many years, and if it weren't the revolution we'd have would be huge.

 

[denec]

That's a meaningless statement. The emergency room is not the appropriate place for most medical needs. It's for emergencies, not for things like on going therapy, detailed diagnostics and preventive care. Furthermore, emergency rooms are the most costly avenue to health care available. Going there is not a casual activity like going to your GP. The costs of emergency room visits can and do cause people to become ruined financially, something that wouldn't have to happen if more people had good coverage.



There are not "plenty of hospitals that treat people who have no insurance for free" and even if there were, do you think it's a good idea to force people to consider which hospital to go to when they've had an accident and need emergency care? "Can you take me to the hospital that's 10 miles away? I can't afford to go to the one that's right here."

Hospitals and emergency rooms are not a viable solution for life long health care.

that is your problem not mine...10 miles is nothing

and all hospitals are required to treat someone in an emergency..I use to work and be part of the NYC EMS system trust me I know..and the system gets abused..mostly from low lives and drug users all the time

 

[Surf Monkey]

that is your problem not mine...10 miles is nothing

Yeah, that's what people should tell ambulance drivers.

"Hey, 10 miles is nothing! I'm sure I'll live long enough to make it there. My life is less important than my pocketbook."

and all hospitals are required to treat someone in an emergency..

Way to miss the point.

 

[denec]

Neither is digital copyright. Do you advocate pirating music and movies too? There's nothing in the constitution that protects them, so if you intend to be consistent you should support piracy of digital media.

i can careless to be honest about that

 

[denec]

Yeah, that's what people should tell ambulance drivers.

"Hey, 10 miles is nothing! I'm sure I'll live long enough to make it there. My life is less important than my pocketbook."



Way to miss the point.

how many times i have to state it..in an emergency you go to the nearest ER or nearest trauma center no matter if you have insurance or not..

 

[Surf Monkey]

how many times i have to state it..in an emergency you go to the nearest ER or nearest trauma center no matter if you have insurance or not..

State it as many times as you like. I haven't denied that point. Go re-read my post, because you've either missed or chosen to ignore my point.

EDIT:

Here's the post again.

"That's a meaningless statement. The emergency room is not the appropriate place for most medical needs. It's for emergencies, not for things like on going therapy, detailed diagnostics and preventive care. Furthermore, emergency rooms are the most costly avenue to health care available. Going there is not a casual activity like going to your GP. The costs of emergency room visits can and do cause people to become ruined financially, something that wouldn't have to happen if more people had good coverage."

 

[denec]

State it as many times as you like. I haven't denied that point. Go re-read my post, because you've either missed or chosen to ignore my point.

EDIT:

Here's the post again.

"That's a meaningless statement. The emergency room is not the appropriate place for most medical needs. It's for emergencies, not for things like on going therapy, detailed diagnostics and preventive care. Furthermore, emergency rooms are the most costly avenue to health care available. Going there is not a casual activity like going to your GP. The costs of emergency room visits can and do cause people to become ruined financially, something that wouldn't have to happen if more people had good coverage."

and i said there are plenty of other places you can go to if you do not have insurances i know of plenty of free clinics in NYC that will treat all illnesses, you might not have the best of care but at least you have care