Perhaps, A Better Way

[sailorman]

....
Being on a VERY tight budget, I absolutely had to make the very best choice for me that I could the FIRST time. I can't afford too much trial and error. Hours of scouring the internet brought me here, an almost half a day of digging through the forums, reviews, videos and infopages simply confused me. I knew then what I was looking for, but at the end of the day, I still ended up having the members here hold my hand through the entire process.

You were one of the lucky minority. It was fortunate for you that you got confused. That drove you to seek out help. If you hadn't been confused and had no inkling of the many options you had, you might have jumped on the first slickly marketed e-cig you found. So, in your case, the information overload worked in your favor.

In an ideal world, aspiring vapers would spend not half a day, but 20-30+ hours of research before they made their first buy. Considering that many of them waste upward of $200-300 getting ripped off, and some of them abandon the ecig idea altogether, it's not a bad investment.

 

[sailorman]

When I first started at the store I was in there were only 2 options, a mini and a super mini 3pc sets. Eventually we expanded the line and they've expanded even more since I worked there.

In the beginning, however, there were quite a few occasions where what we had just wasn't going to cut it for some people and I would recommend online vendors that had more options. Now some would say that I was shooting myself in the foot by doing that, but the way I see it is that if I help this person find what works, they'll tell 20 people to come see me (the majority of our business was word of mouth).

On the other hand, I could have gone ahead and sold them the unit and taken the cash. I feel that if I'd have done that, they would have decided that ecigs sucked and told 20 people not to try them hurting not only the store I worked at, but the industry as a whole.

Kudos to you for that. Would that all retailers be so far-sighted.

OTOH, I can understand a retailer with a full line of PV's being reluctant to send a customer here just to get all the additional information that the retailer, understandably, doesn't have the time to get into with their customer.
That, of course, wouldn't necessarily be the case if the retailer was competitive with the online vendors.
I'm sure some are, and some are the same vendors on this site, but certainly not where I live.

 

[KaitLynnHt]

You were one of the lucky minority. It was fortunate for you that you got confused. That drove you to seek out help. If you hadn't been confused and had no inkling of the many options you had, you might have jumped on the first slickly marketed e-cig you found. So, in your case, the information overload worked in your favor.

In an ideal world, aspiring vapers would spend not half a day, but 20-30+ hours of research before they made their first buy. Considering that many of them waste upward of $200-300 getting ripped off, and some of them abandon the ecig idea altogether, it's not a bad investment.

Oh don't I know it. I consider myself VERY lucky. I've seen so many people talking about their 'first' ecig. That's why I am so grateful ECF and everyone who was willing to do the hand holding. ^_^ I probably would have researched longer, but luckily everyone replied so quickly, and I really wanted to order by the end of the weekend to avoid buying another pack of analogs. Really, it's a good habit for any purchase, research it and find all your alternatives. Then everyone will find ECF first ^_^

Right now, a Google search for 'electronic cigarette' shows ECF 6th on the result list. Wikipedia article is first. We either need to make ECF #1 or get an external link on Wikipedia. Something like that.

 

[theWayISshut]

Perhaps I have the wrong idea entirely, but somehow I don't think so. There has to be a better way to show beginners without endorsing any one product and yet warning them of the bad ones. It also has to be separated somehow from all the rest of the information.

While I still consider myself the newest of the new, I have been down an expensive learning curve. To say I have over purchased would be the understatement of the year. This board has some people that are really wonderful in how far they will go to help someone else out – but even with that, it is really confusing to learn about E cigarettes...

How about just letting it go or just allow members express whatever opinions they have? Most newbies that come here have made up their minds, anyway. They're hell-bent on getting the e-cig that looks like the real one. You can't talk them out of it. It's impossible. I've been there. They only come here to hear validation of their purchase or hear encouragements that what they've ordered online was the right choice.

 

[ctourtelot]

Kudos to you for that. Would that all retailers be so far-sighted.

OTOH, I can understand a retailer with a full line of PV's being reluctant to send a customer here just to get all the additional information that the retailer, understandably, doesn't have the time to get into with their customer.
That, of course, wouldn't necessarily be the case if the retailer was competitive with the online vendors.
I'm sure some are, and some are the same vendors on this site, but certainly not where I live.

Well we were MUCH cheaper than the mall kiosk but a bit more than the online stores. Most of my customers had no problem paying a bit more for the convenience as well as the hands on instructions. I worked the store alone as the owner had a day job and sometimes it would get a bit crazy when I had several people come in at the same time.

We were a bit off the beaten track a bit and didn't have a lot of walk by traffic other than people poking their heads in to ask WTH electronic cigarettes were, but if I had more than 1 new user, I could give them all the info at the same time. I had several people that would just come hang out there and they were good for business as they'd give testimonies to new potential vapers.

They've moved to a new location that should give them more foot traffic and set it up like a lounge, but I haven't been in there since they moved so I don't know how busy they are now. It was fun though and I learned a lot.

 

[andyman97]

I have decided to go ahead and make an introductory video for new vapers because of this thread. I have some topics in mind that I plan to cover, not too much detail on any one thing, but pros and cons to different PV types, different threads, different battery types, battery and mod safety, different types of atties and cartos and carto tanks.

Does anyone have anything else that's really big that you think should be covered? I plan to keep this video under 15 minutes and don't want to go too far in depth and I intend to try and keep the bias as limited as possible.

 

[pumasforpets]

I have decided to go ahead and make an introductory video for new vapers because of this thread. I have some topics in mind that I plan to cover, not too much detail on any one thing, but pros and cons to different PV types, different threads, different battery types, battery and mod safety, different types of atties and cartos and carto tanks.

Does anyone have anything else that's really big that you think should be covered? I plan to keep this video under 15 minutes and don't want to go too far in depth and I intend to try and keep the bias as limited as possible.

Awesome! I do have a request...if you mention anything about mods in your video, PLEASE warn new vapers about the dangers of using unprotected batteries and caution them against battery stacking. I really wish we could, as a community, try to stop this dangerous practice in favor of safer alternatives with similar performance.

 

[ambition]

Maybe I'm missing something, but don't we have info pages that cover this topic nicely.
"best ecigarette for new users"

If you're going to make a video covering the basics, my only request is to keep it unbiased and non preachy. Not everyone wants a mod, and 808's are not the same as Blu.

I'm thinking you're going to have to make a series because if you're going to compare common battery types, there's Blu and other micros, joye 510's, 808's, joye eGo's and 3.7v eGo lookalikes. That's 15mins right there.

The more you explain, the more background material you'll have to provide. It'll be easy to wind up with 10 of these vids. All the while remaining unbiased.

Are you sure you want to do this?

 

[krnxguhj33]

The thing about a best e-cig page is that the hardware changes so rapidly, it would take A LOT of manpower to keep it current. But.. it sounds like a great idea nonetheless. I would be in for something like that.

 

[andyman97]

Maybe I'm missing something, but don't we have info pages that cover this topic nicely.
"best ecigarette for new users"

If you're going to make a video covering the basics, my only request is to keep it unbiased and non preachy. Not everyone wants a mod, and 808's are not the same as Blu.

I'm thinking you're going to have to make a series because if you're going to compare common battery types, there's Blu and other micros, joye 510's, 808's, joye eGo's and 3.7v eGo lookalikes. That's 15mins right there.

The more you explain, the more background material you'll have to provide. It'll be easy to wind up with 10 of these vids. All the while remaining unbiased.

Are you sure you want to do this?

That isn't my intent. I plan to keep it very simple, intended for someone who doesn't know what an 808, an ego, or a mod is. Not trying to tout specific products or talk about "this product is better than that product." Just the very basics. What is a cartomizer, what is an atomizer, what is a 510, what is a 901. Can I use 510 on my 808 and vice versa. This is not going to be a huge overview intended to cover everything, more a quick basics explanation for first time vapers. I don't intend to insert any bias or opinion, just the facts and some pros cons to different things.

 

[andyman97]

Awesome! I do have a request...if you mention anything about mods in your video, PLEASE warn new vapers about the dangers of using unprotected batteries and caution them against battery stacking. I really wish we could, as a community, try to stop this dangerous practice in favor of safer alternatives with similar performance.

Yep, that's already covered in my outline. Thanks.

 

[ardelleg]

Don put this together quite a while ago; but it is still very relevant:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ping-illustrated-guide-e-cigs-part-1-6-a.html

This is located in the ECF-Library - The ECF Library

I am curious how many actually read this series when you posted this link.....

If I had come here before buying my first ecig I would be suffering from confusion paralysis and would still be reading and not vaping.... once I bought one and was vaping while reading it all made a lot more sense... there is a lot of info available here, for some that is good, for some it makes it too hard.

Buying small cigarette sized PV's just seems to be part of the learning curve for most people... I just wasn't ready to go with anything larger.....

I have spent quite a bit of money on all of this and a little more than a year later I am coming close to breaking even... but I don't smoke. I always managed to have money for cigarettes at $7-8 a pack.

Welcome and good luck to all the new members of the forum.... can seem like an awful lot of information but you can get it sorted out and have a good vaping experience......

 

[pumasforpets]

I wonder if maybe the community can come to some sort of general consensus for an inexpensive starter device that wets the appetite with little confusion and allows people to read while vaping for the first time so things make more sense as ardelleg stated.

I would never recommend the Blu starter kit since I know first hand how much they suck, but their disposable does exactly what I'm thinking of. It's cheap, works as it's supposed to, lasts a long time and wets the appetite. Plus Walgreens carries them and they are a little bigger than an actual cig so it might get people used to a slightly larger device for when we suggest they go with an eGo style device after the disposable. Thoughts?

 

[sailorman]

If you throw away $5-10 on a disposable just to see what the whole things all about, eh...why not?. But even that's kind of silly because none of them give you a realistic idea of how any decent PV works. You'd be just as likely to get the wrong impression and abandon the whole idea. Then what good did you do yourself? Kinda' like trying a McRib sandwich to see if you like BBQ ribs. Kinda like someone forming an opinion on whether they like wine by buying a bottle of MD 20/20.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say something like, "Oh, an e-cigarette. I tried them and they suck" or, "they're a scam", or "they don't work". Every single time I've pressed for details, it was the same story. They tried some bogus disposable or gas station starter kit. Those people will be 10X less likely to ever permanently quit smoking with a PV than someone who started out with a decent kit. They've been led to believe they "tried" an e-cig already.

There are plenty of good kits that can be had for less than the cost of a carton of cigarettes. At least if you try one of those and don't like it, you've given yourself a chance. There are few reason to pay $10 for a disposable when you can get a proper kit for so little money, only convenience and a lack of awareness.

There should be a disclaimer on the cheapo disposables. "Warning. This device is not a typical representation of what an electronic cigarette really is. Unless it causes projectile vomiting or renders you comatose, we suggest you find and try a proper model for good results."

 

[sailorman]

I wonder if maybe the community can come to some sort of general consensus for an inexpensive starter device that wets the appetite with little confusion and allows people to read while vaping for the first time so things make more sense as ardelleg stated.....

Cheap 650mah eGo starter with a handful of pre-filled cartos. Costs less than a carton of smokes. If you're too stupid to use a kit that simple, you're already brain damaged from smoking and it's too late for you anyway. And I don't want to hear this "gotta look like a cigarette" nonsense. That's a myth Blu and the slick marketers have embedded in peoples' minds to sell their junk. It's like saying motorcycles have to look like bicycles or no new motorcyclist will try one.

 

[dying2breatheagain]

If you throw away $5-10 on a disposable just to see what the whole things all about, eh...why not?. But even that's kind of silly because none of them give you a realistic idea of how any decent PV works. You'd be just as likely to get the wrong impression and abandon the whole idea. Then what good did you do yourself? Kinda' like trying a McRib sandwich to see if you like BBQ ribs. Kinda like someone forming an opinion on whether they like wine by buying a bottle of MD 20/20.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say something like, "Oh, an e-cigarette. I tried them and they suck" or, "they're a scam", or "they don't work". Every single time I've pressed for details, it was the same story. They tried some bogus disposable or gas station starter kit. Those people will be 10X less likely to ever permanently quit smoking with a PV than someone who started out with a decent kit. They've been led to believe they "tried" an e-cig already.

There are plenty of good kits that can be had for less than the cost of a carton of cigarettes. At least if you try one of those and don't like it, you've given yourself a chance. There are few reason to pay $10 for a disposable when you can get a proper kit for so little money, only convenience and a lack of awareness.

There should be a disclaimer on the cheapo disposables. "Warning. This device is not a typical representation of what an electronic cigarette really is. Unless it causes projectile vomiting or renders you comatose, we suggest you find and try a proper model for good results."

Love the disclaimer! Had it been on the ones I bought, I would have saved myself a lot of money from the get go.

 

[jdrewry]

Quite honestly, the best e-cig is the one you tried, that got you away from analogs in the first place. It may only be good for a day, a week, etc.--long enough for the newcomer to come here, and take a "chance" on a recommended starter kit from a vet. The newcomer will get at least one more starter kit, after they've gotten comfortable with the "e-cig lingo", and know what they're really looking for. If the newcomer is lucky, they may have a friend or two who are already vaping, that can steer them a bit down the path.

IMO, after reading a number of newcomer threads, it's not uncommon for the newcomer to spend around $100-$200 dollars trying to nail down the right kit. Sounds like a lot of money, true, but figure out how much you spent on smokes last month, and you're not really doing too bad.

 

[andyman97]

I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say something like, "Oh, an e-cigarette. I tried them and they suck" or, "they're a scam", or "they don't work". Every single time I've pressed for details, it was the same story. They tried some bogus disposable or gas station starter kit. Those people will be 10X less likely to ever permanently quit smoking with a PV than someone who started out with a decent kit. They've been led to believe they "tried" an e-cig already.

If someone is content in their smoking habit and don't really want to quit, they won't quit until they were ready. Someone that I am friends with has tried my provari with several different flavors. She loved the taste. She loved the hit. There was nothing negative she had to say about it and seemed genuinely interested in picking up a kit for herself. At her request, I emailed her a few links to try them out and that was months ago. Today, she told me she wasn't really interested in quitting. I wasn't angry or upset. I feel for her for health's sake, but she's just as free to smoke cigarettes as I was when I didn't want to quit.

Bottom line, she knows smoking is bad for her. She knows this is much better for her. She knows she can trust my experience to help her make an informed decision. She is choosing not to do it because she simply doesn't want to put the effort that goes into it.

 

[theWayISshut]

This "there's a better way" talk is all well and good but noobs don't even read these things or take time to learn things. First thing they do is look for the smallest or most cig-looking device out there. When they found one, all the focus will be on that one and anticipate positive reviews. They'll even filter the negatives, and believe me, I can't blame them. The positives far outnumber the negatives until they're ready to buy. They then discover ECF and post not to ask for advise but to hear validation of their decision. A pat on the back, sense of entitlement, they should be commended just for trying to quit smoking. It's like those veteran vapers who now want to vape in restaurants because what they're doing is fantastic. They're not polluting the air. Even though they never smoked in restaurants all their lives. Hehe...

 

[Bradder]

Good idea andyman 97 - my recommendation, though it may be a little more work, is that instead of creating one 15 minute video you might break it up into a series (similar to what mistressnomad did). Not sure i could have sat through 15 minutes and swimming in so much information. Shorter 4-5 minute vids might be useful. Either way - looking forward to them.