If a "deal" is reached, I am wondering how this might/would affect all other e-cigs, especially Vapor4Life. Anyone have any news/speculation. Either way, the news doesn't sound good.
Philip Morris Negotiating with Ruyan Group
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Frankly, this might end up being very good for the consumer in the long run. Might be a killer for some of the cottage industry that has sprung up around PV's though.
I am hoping Steve and company would take it underground if need be! I need my stuff!
Agreed Scottbee, in the end Ruyan working with PM sucks, but might give e-cigs the backing needed to prevent undue FDA hassle. I hope the cottage industry as you so well put it survives though.
Well I am not happy about it for several reasons. Suffice to say it will be like giving BT and the FDA what they want...more money. Plus it will be overly regulated to the point nic will probably be cut down and maybe there won't be any flavors. I am not liking this at all. But the signs are there. I wish Judge Leon would just go ahead and release his ruling. At least we would have a better idea of where we stand. I will continue to order from V4L...even if they have to move to the moon..lol
Sucks if you ask me.
They couldn't win over everyone with their strong arm tatics and ban threats so now they'll just toss a bunch a $$$ around and then bend us all over backwards....once again.
Prices would probably go sky high too as they'll just HAVE to make up for all the $$$ they <cough> invested in this wonderfully 'safer' way to smoke.
#endrant
They couldn't win over everyone with their strong arm tatics and ban threats so now they'll just toss a bunch a $$$ around and then bend us all over backwards....once again.
Prices would probably go sky high too as they'll just HAVE to make up for all the $$$ they <cough> invested in this wonderfully 'safer' way to smoke.
#endrant
I'm hoping we're all jumping the gun just a little. But the last thing this industry needs is that big gun.
Maybe I'm just being an optimist, but I don't want the FDA to drop the banhammer on e-cigs. I would hope that having a company with dosh to spare in our corner means that bleak future wouldn't happen. I really don't want to go back to analogs. Ever.
It is Phillip Morris International, and not the US branch, so perhaps not much affect on the US e-cig industry, yet....
My question is: Is this just a distribution deal or a stab at taking over the industry and burying it. Big tobacco has been known to do that and Ruyan does own some patents on the technology. PM could buy them up and then tie up the industry in patent lawsuits for years.
Still can't post links, but if you want the details and some links to info, I just wrote a full story about it at my site.
My question is: Is this just a distribution deal or a stab at taking over the industry and burying it. Big tobacco has been known to do that and Ruyan does own some patents on the technology. PM could buy them up and then tie up the industry in patent lawsuits for years.
Still can't post links, but if you want the details and some links to info, I just wrote a full story about it at my site.
Let's keep in mind that this would be the very same Philip Morris (actually Altria) that pushed for FDA oversight of cigarettes. That oversight recently resulted in huge tax increases on every form of tobacco, not just cigarettes. PM is not your friend.
Theory:
So I'm thinking that by PM going after the original patent holder as they are with these so called "negotiations" that PM might be trying to either buy Ruyan (as they have done with General Foods & Kraft) or become a holding interest in the Company making it easier for Ruyan using PM's help to control the use of their patent on the Ecig basically putting US, Europe, and other China based company's out of business and making the Ruyan/PM E-cig the only one you can buy worldwide.... 'say goodbye to buying E-liquid and say hello to pre-filled carts everyone!'
Questions:
A few extra questions that maybe someone is able to answer for me:
1. E-cig.com claims they hold patents on the Ecig as well. How is this true if Ruyan owns them?
2. Are the Ruyan Patents still in effect? If so... when do they expire?
So I'm thinking that by PM going after the original patent holder as they are with these so called "negotiations" that PM might be trying to either buy Ruyan (as they have done with General Foods & Kraft) or become a holding interest in the Company making it easier for Ruyan using PM's help to control the use of their patent on the Ecig basically putting US, Europe, and other China based company's out of business and making the Ruyan/PM E-cig the only one you can buy worldwide.... 'say goodbye to buying E-liquid and say hello to pre-filled carts everyone!'
Questions:
A few extra questions that maybe someone is able to answer for me:
1. E-cig.com claims they hold patents on the Ecig as well. How is this true if Ruyan owns them?
2. Are the Ruyan Patents still in effect? If so... when do they expire?
OK so if we're looking to invest it would be with Ruyan? Or is there another publicly traded company that we should be looking into?
An analogy to what your supposition is would be that GM has a patent on cars so nobody could build a car.
What they have is a patent on a specific process or design. In the case of e-cig.com the PVs they sell are somewhat unique. They could license that technology/design/process to another manufacturer/distributor/retailer if they elected to do so. This assumes someone would want to do that.
In other words, control of Ruyan has little to do with control of all the other designs or processes used for E-Cigs.
There are so may types of devices on the market that your premise is not valid.
Pretty much the same goes for the liquid. Nobody could patent nicotine or PG or VG or the flavorings and probably not the mixing percentages. I don't see any problem there either.
As Far As I can see doing info lookup on the Net.... is that Ruyan is currently going after all manufactures of E-cigs in China do to the fact that
So Basically Ruyan Owns the Original Patent on the Atomizer Technology.
See what this means for E-cig users is that if PM prevails Ruyan will have a larger company fighting for their Patent Rights on the Technology and anything that may be similiar to it i.e. 510, 801, 901, VaporKing. Ruyan will be able to put every other China based business out of business thus putting American and European Suppliers out of business because they are using similar atomizing technology. Making PM/Ruyan the only E-cig supplier in the world (at least until the Patents is over).
US & European Suppliers get ready for viscous lawsuits from PM/Ruyan for being in the Ecig Business... AND
Anyone want to see a Marlboro Branded Ecig on every convenient store shelf around the country? Well I see it happening not to much further in the future if PM and Ruyan Strike this Deal.
Just like PM bought out General Foods and Kraft they may be doing the same thing to the E-cig Industry.
No They have the Patent on the Atomization technology itself! "Which means anything that is similar in operation to theirs i.e. any atomizing device that vaporizes liquid." Check out Ruyans International Website and check out their headlines please.
Ruyan is currently winning all their Patent Lawsuits on this stipulation & putting other CHina based Ecig businesses out of business. I don't see it going the way you do I'm sorry leeshor.
OK, let me go one step further. Intel has a CPU patent. So does AMD, VIA, nVidia etc.
A patent must be specific to a process or design. If the patent is overly broad to the point that it would exclude electronic cigarettes in general it would likely not pass muster in court.
Even the patent for an atomizer or the method for atomizing liquid can be circumvented in may courts if the process differs. That's like someone getting a patent for the internal combustion engine.
Exactly which manufacturers have they put out of business.
A patent must be specific to a process or design. If the patent is overly broad to the point that it would exclude electronic cigarettes in general it would likely not pass muster in court.
Even the patent for an atomizer or the method for atomizing liquid can be circumvented in may courts if the process differs. That's like someone getting a patent for the internal combustion engine.
Exactly which manufacturers have they put out of business.
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Answer:
They Own the Patent on the Invention of the Atomizer. There is no If and or Butts about it! They can take down any manufacture of the Ecig. Go read all the articles on their case rullings.
Opened a global trading account at ETRADE. Once Ruyan trading resumes I am in! Hopefully they do resume at some point
I still have serious doubts about the assertion that they can control atomizers to the extent that you and they claim. At least outside China. If China were to honor patents of companies outside of China the same as they are fighting on behalf of Ruyan that would be something.
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