PIF Needs(will be closing soon)

[Drozd]

I think its being changed because alot of people dont understand the simple difference between a WANT and a NEED.The new thread will kind of put that into perspective for them.If its not a dire EMERGENCY then it is a want and can be handled that way.I think sometimes you have to make things self explanatory or people just dont seem to understand.I think alot of people feel that PIF is being taken advantage of and would prefer that it stop.We dont ask for anything in return or ask for cash for shipping if you want something.We do have a right to define a need.Its fun to share and trade,thats different.A need is something you must have right now in order to keep vaping.I think the new thread makes that pretty clear,and I dont think this has anything at all to do with past drama or any other PIF problem.Its just a way to make things clear and simple to understand.

OK....lets examine that....
it's a DIRE need....I need it right now... not in 3-4-5 days from now...they ARE at the whim of those that are going to choose to help...their ability to get to the PO... the speed of the PO at all.... in that reguard I'd submit that we aren't capable of covering DIRE needs by the very definition...needs sure because they AREN'T dire....
then it's just semantics...

there's a diffenence between "I need a LR510 atty.." (really a want)
I need a 510 atty because my last one is about to die and I dont get paid for 15 more days..." (need)
and I need an atty my very last one died 5 minutes ago and I can't buy anything for 2 weeks til I get my next unemployment check" (dire)
and we're not equipped to really deal with dire

 

[bluedove3]

Blue . . . tell us why. Has anyone given you a hard time? Offers are being added to, people are replacing offers when they know the giver is having lean times. Some people 'stalk the thread' which does make it difficult to share 'the good stuff' but those people know who they are and are being encouraged to give others a chance.

I shouldn't feel threatening.

Ok, I will try and explain. And hopefully, it won't come off as whining... cause I really don't want to do that, lol!

Here are the issues with the PIF thread as I see them:
1) The wonderful people of PIF, have kind of "raised the bar" on themselves. While the occasional offer of a kit or mod should be a wonderful and generous act, it has had the unintentional side effect of making lesser offers look like chopped liver. Now people seem to actively watch and wait for smaller offers to be added to before claiming.

2) The first come, first served protocol encourages a predatory response. People start lying in wait and stalking the threads, waiting for that elusive and highly sought after "BIG game".
Not only does this lead to a more competitive and "goal oriented" attitude in the thread, it also encourages unhealthy behavior IRL. It is very possible to become addicted to this "hunt" and end up spending way to much time staring at a screen, refreshing over and over again.
Also, people with better tech (smart phones with browsing and email, etc) and more time on their hands will be at an advantage.

So my big stumbling blocks are A) I'm not willing to do what is necessary to compete, thus I generally end up seeing offers I would have liked to claim, but never had a shot at because it was snapped up in 10 mins of posting. And B) My offers will be "chopped liver" and I get to despair while they go for hours without a sniff until some wonderful PIFer comes to my rescue and adds on.

I'm not sure I know how to fix these issues. I would like to propose a "grace period" of an hour so that more people have a chance to at least SEE an offer before it is claimed. I don't know how people will feel about that, it's just my suggestion to curb the "feeding frenzy" activity.

I still really like the idea of the PIF thread, I just don't like the "vibes" I get from it, does that make sense? Hopefully I haven't stepped on any toes here, not my intention at all!

 

[Drozd]

The closing of this thread and the opening of a new one is to clarify the above statement. "Only ask for things that you absolutely have to have to keep you vaping until your next check comes in"
To many folks dont understand "Need" vs "want" way to much of what is in here is a "want"....when you are demanding a specific item, turning down help, and seem to have "constant" Needs...obviously the message of what makes a need isnt clear enough.

If anyone can come up with a better solution to fix this issue, be happy to hear it.

Can't we just take some of the wonderful examples that we defined as the difference between need and want just a few pages back and edit/quote them into post #1... and leave the thread...with it's title intact...and police it ourselves...or have posts that don't conform edited, moved, or the poster suggested a more approprite place to put it...
maintaing the stability without making sudden and drastic changes?

 

[UntamedRose]

Cant we just calm down and not be an alarmist. It's a thread thats all it is.

 

[Lorizgal]

You are correct it is only a thread.......but why change something when it ain't broke?
I just think the two should be defined as one thread again and not split it again. One thread that says Wants/Needs and to keep the Needs from standing by itself and looking like anything you want "NEED" you will get on this thread. I don't remember so many people taking advantage of PIF when the threads were together, because we were able to see both wants and needs asking by the same person going as far back as we wanted to see. Now we have to stalk both threads and attempt to figure out whether that same person "has gone to far?"
I see your point Untamed Rose, about it only being a thread. I also know that people will think a want is also a really needed emergency. It won't matter what you put on the thread title. the people you are concerned about are going to think that their Need is an Emergency! It's the way they percieve their situation.
Some Needs are emergencies and Some are not. What do we do with those needs? The needs that are more than wants but don't fall into life changing emergencies?
Answer me this please!

 

[Dudeman]

thanks for listening...
I'm going to expand on it just a bit more...

do you remember the ugliness of May...
the closing of threads...the censorship... the movement toward a gestapo state?...
for me the closing of this thread and reopening it with a more specific point...is just too reminiscent of that...
after we reafirmed the concept of what a need actually is here in this thread...it settled down...
why is an upheaval of stability necessary?

for me here we go again....
Jules leaves...
and threads start to get closed....
really?.... are we going to go through all that again?.....
what's next?.... what's the next shoe to drop?...

You've hit exactly how I feel about all this. The wants and needs threads are where I spend most of my time in PIF. Behind the scenes, so to speak. I stepped away from the PIF thread a LONG time ago when it became more of a "swap" thread where it was always the same people all the time. I was one of the people who almost gave up on this group back in May. I'm REALLY hoping it doesn't go that way again.

Changing a thread title isn't going to stop anything for the long haul. There will always be "questionable" posts of people who "need" something to continue vaping. It's up to the people who can fill these needs to decide if the post is an actual need or not. No need to create drama about it, you either choose to help, or you choose not to.

 

[UntamedRose]

The open doors, thing with PIF is ALL subforums right now. It changed when they upgraded ECF. No one needs to be a member to post in any of the subforums at this time.
There isnt anything we can do about this, except wait been told that they are working on that.

 

[keyzygirl]

Its a thread.
Starting a new one that is more explanatory shouldnt be a problem.It will benefit new members and they will understand what the thread is about.Why is that a problem?

 

[Drozd]

Cant we just calm down and not be an alarmist. It's a thread thats all it is.

yeah it's a thread....and just needs a reminder of the rules...maybe some monitoring...

the problem is....yes closing it and changing it removes some stability and yes to some it's reminicent of things and the way they went down in the past...

redifining it as "emergency" well thats different than need...as I've already droned about...and wel;l we're not really equipped to deal with that...
if I have an emergency nobody...even a vendor is going to be able to get me something NOW...or between now and my next nic fit... (well maybe save for one meber who lives maybe 10 minutes away)

 

[WhatAClumsyGirl]

I think the idea is pretty simple and in the right direction.

If you have a vaping emergency and absolutely do not have something that is going to keep you vaping then having this in the emergency thread will make it easier for people to see and address the situation. If it's not an emergency, it can go into the wants thread and people can take care of that as they can.

Makes perfect sense to me.

Vape On.

 

[pm2006]

Ok, I will try and explain. And hopefully, it won't come off as whining... cause I really don't want to do that, lol!

Here are the issues with the PIF thread as I see them:
1) The wonderful people of PIF, have kind of "raised the bar" on themselves. While the occasional offer of a kit or mod should be a wonderful and generous act, it has had the unintentional side effect of making lesser offers look like chopped liver. Now people seem to actively watch and wait for smaller offers to be added to before claiming.

2) The first come, first served protocol encourages a predatory response. People start lying in wait and stalking the threads, waiting for that elusive and highly sought after "BIG game".
Not only does this lead to a more competitive and "goal oriented" attitude in the thread, it also encourages unhealthy behavior IRL. It is very possible to become addicted to this "hunt" and end up spending way to much time staring at a screen, refreshing over and over again.
Also, people with better tech (smart phones with browsing and email, etc) and more time on their hands will be at an advantage.

So my big stumbling blocks are A) I'm not willing to do what is necessary to compete, thus I generally end up seeing offers I would have liked to claim, but never had a shot at because it was snapped up in 10 mins of posting. And B) My offers will be "chopped liver" and I get to despair while they go for hours without a sniff until some wonderful PIFer comes to my rescue and adds on.

I'm not sure I know how to fix these issues. I would like to propose a "grace period" of an hour so that more people have a chance to at least SEE an offer before it is claimed. I don't know how people will feel about that, it's just my suggestion to curb the "feeding frenzy" activity.

I still really like the idea of the PIF thread, I just don't like the "vibes" I get from it, does that make sense? Hopefully I haven't stepped on any toes here, not my intention at all!

I understand why you might be feeling that way but . . . . .don't. This sounds more like about how YOU feel rather than what has happened to the thread. Your offers are fine and if yours or mine or others sit there for a bit, it's no biggie. Really . . . it isn't.

I just wanted to add . . . We all see the stalkers and I agree that they should be reminded to let others have a chance to take what they need too. Maybe we need to go a step further with PIF and put it out there that someone taking repeated generous offers will be asked to take time off. (just a suggestion)

The open doors, thing with PIF is ALL subforums right now. It changed when they upgraded ECF. No one needs to be a member to post in any of the subforums at this time.
There isnt anything we can do about this, except wait been told that they are working on that.

Well that completely explains it for me! When a thread like 'what do you need' shows up in the general thread for anyone to just click on, then we are going to have to expect that any of the hundreds (thousands) of members of ecf could show up here at one time or another!

I think we DEFINATELY need an 'emergency need' thread!! At least until we can go back to the less public way of doing things.

 

[the_larch]

The way I see it (and maybe I don't really have much of a say seeing as how I have only been a member of PIF all of 3 weeks or so) is that by shutting down this thread and opening up a newer one we are eliminating the clutter that is this thread! Too often in the past week or so I have noticed a lack of actual needs posting and instead back and forth banter which should really be relegated to the chit chat thread. Closing this thread and opening the Emergency thread will (at least in my eyes) lessen the social aspect that has overrun this particular thread and open it back up for true emergency needs.

Put another way: this is currently page 51. How many pages must I go back to even see a need here? On top of that, each need that is posted is surrounded by chatter which is, from what I can gather, often off-topic and often banal. I'm not saying that threads shouldn't be fun but it seems to me that the needs thread should truly be devoid of anything other than actual needs.

I completely support the new thread.

 

[Drozd]

Its a thread.
Starting a new one that is more explanatory shouldnt be a problem.It will benefit new members and they will understand what the thread is about.Why is that a problem?

note that if/when the same statement is made about the PIF thread itself people get up in arms

 

[UntamedRose]

I disagree, we have had and dealt with several Real emergency/needs here in PIF. Sorry you missed them


The new thread is simply a clarification of the difference between the two and cleaning house.

 

[keyzygirl]

The PIF thread isnt being discussed,it seems to be working fine.There are a few small issues but I feel they are being handled as well as can be expected.

 

[markfm]

I agree with Larch's and Paula's comments. Actually not all that surprising, with the recent ECF upgrade. Sometimes things need (oops, bad word) a kill and restart, particularly if a thread like this has opened to the world at large. In other forums I've seen threads that are actually multi-threads -- same topic, same intro, but it'll get a periodic close and restart (Needs 1, Needs 2,...) to keep things manageable, as time goes on. It's not even that the intro/topic needs to be changed, just that you hit a period of flux (in this case a bunch of new people and/or old-timers have sidetracked in off-topic conversation). Let old copies of the thread slide off of stickeys, down into the archive zone, just keep the current active one as a stickey.

(This opinion, plus a buck, will get you a cup of coffee.)

 

[Drozd]

I agree with Larch's and Paula's comments. Actually not all that surprising, with the recent ECF upgrade. Sometimes things need (oops, bad word) a kill and restart, particularly if a thread like this has opened to the world at large. In other forums I've seen threads that are actually multi-threads -- same topic, same intro, but it'll get a periodic close and restart (Needs 1, Needs 2,...) to keep things manageable, as time goes on. It's not even that the intro/topic needs to be changed, just that you hit a period of flux (in this case a bunch of new people and/or old-timers have sidetracked in off-topic conversation). Let old copies of the thread slide off of stickeys, down into the archive zone, just keep the current active one as a stickey.

(This opinion, plus a buck, will get you a cup of coffee.)

then why not wait til the issue with the board is resolved to do it then?...

 

[UntamedRose]

then why not wait til the issue with the board is resolved to do it then?...

B/C we have no idea when that glitch will be fixed, might be tommorrow, next week, three months from now.
We need a solution to this problem now.

 

[Pharaoh]

Here is my very first ECF post. It was a emergency needs post I was trying to find someone in my area that had juice right then. I really needed someone close to get juice right then. I already had juice ordered so someone mailing me juice really would not have helped me. It was emergency! It had nothing to do with me not having money I needed serious juice help and someone close!

Grrr..I see I need 5 posts.. I tried to post on the emergency want/need thread but it will not let me. LOL Sucks very bad as I'm 100% out of e-juice and trying to find someone in my area that has some. Got email that juice I ordered last week was shipped today. Have a large China order on its way ..but will be in??
So I'm going to be ok.....I think? Picked me up some 0 nic flavor juice at smoke shop (all they have other than carts that will not fit my 401) and 3 packs of analog. BAHhh analogs about to kill me now NEED JUICE (1 pack down already)! Posted on craigs last night looking for someone close .. and nothing Anyone in Ponca City? I feel so pethetic sitting here sticking on all my old carts tring to get a few good puffs more out each of them.

I think there should be a emergency thread. The needs thread so full of chit chat (I'm doing it now) it's hard to find someone with a emergency. I also feel a very large % of the needs are in fact wants. I know some exceptions but most people here need to eat everyday also and they find a way. If they need to vape that bad they will also find a way I know I would go with out food and order me some juice LOL

 

[WhatAClumsyGirl]

I think Rose, Toni and Bianca are doing a great job in "tweeking" these group threads.

I really appreciate everything you all are doing for the PIF group.

Hugs to all of you