Please DO vap where you can't smoke!!!

[Shel]

Moving on to the actual content of the OP:
When you are vaping in places where smoking is NOT allowed, you have someone come up to you to question what you are doing. GREAT, you have an created an opportunity to inform another person about these devices. And perhaps that person will recommend that a loved one try these, or even try it themselves!

But what about the other 6 people that walked by during your conversation. All they saw was that some a$$hole was smoking in a place where they werent suposed to be. They'll go around grumbling and mumbling rather than approach you and ask questions. Trust me, they are more prone to go to a manager and complain about you smoking than they are to ask you to stop... Let alone provide you with the chance to educate them on PV's.

It must be tough going through life, scared of everyone, hiding under your blanket, huh?

Nowhere did I say to be obnoxious, or did I say that if I was asked by a manager, or even another person to quit vaping, that I would not quit or take it somewhere else. I will NOT SMOKE... in a NO SMOKING area. I will not VAP... in a NO VAPING area. However, I will NOT lay down like a scared, whipped puppy, with his tail between his legs, and NOT VAP if it is not forbidden!

You say..."But what about the other 6 people that walked by during your conversation. All they saw was that some a$$hole was smoking in a place where they werent suposed to be."

Well, then I guess they'll think some SMOKER was being unthoughtful, and it would have NO effect on vaping, huh?

CuriousJan put it best (and I hope he/she doesn't mind my quoting them...)

If we don't work to overcome the smoking stigma that the FDA and the like are trying to tie into vaping as well, the FDA/BT/BP will win.

I will not lie down quietly while the government spreads myths and outright falsehoods on the way to stealing away my personal choice and my right to defend and protect my health.

 

[teabagger]

I started vaping because i saw someone vaping inside a bar. I vape unto others as i would vape unto myself... i dont vape around kids(mine or others). i dont vape in restaurants, cause i think its rude while people eat. i dont vape around non smokers in confined areas.

 

[Willriker]

It must be tough going through life, scared of everyone, hiding under your blanket, huh?

Nowhere did I say to be obnoxious, or did I say that if I was asked by a manager, or even another person to quit vaping, that I would not quit or take it somewhere else. I will NOT SMOKE... in a NO SMOKING area. I will not VAP... in a NO VAPING area. However, I will NOT lay down like a scared, whipped puppy, with his tail between his legs, and NOT VAP if it is not forbidden!

You say..."But what about the other 6 people that walked by during your conversation. All they saw was that some a$$hole was smoking in a place where they werent suposed to be."

Well, then I guess they'll think some SMOKER was being unthoughtful, and it would have NO effect on vaping, huh?

CuriousJan put it best (and I hope he/she doesn't mind my quoting them...)

If we don't work to overcome the smoking stigma that the FDA and the like are trying to tie into vaping as well, the FDA/BT/BP will win.

I will not lie down quietly while the government spreads myths and outright falsehoods on the way to stealing away my personal choice and my right to defend and protect my health.

You honestly believe that?

Besdes, id rather go out and vape next to smeone that would actually ask me about this thing. I have personally gotten 7 people from the smoking area to order one of these. Im willing to bet that the positive impressions for PV's generated by even just one of these peoples friends, family, and coworkers outweighs any good feelings you generated convincing a manager to speak with some old biddy so you can use yur PV in the restaurant... or where ever.

LOL if you want to say thats living under a rock or w/e thats fine by me... i guess

 

[Scottitude]

^+5 for the "Head Desk" ^

While you may not have implicitly advised the vaping community to "be obnoxious", the attitude and behavior (even after acknowledging your hyperbolic vape-in-church "humor") your post suggested would indeed BE obnoxious.

If you truly believe exercising common courtesy to fellow human beings is laying down "like a scared, whipped puppy, with his tail between his legs" it's a testament to how pathetically sad this world and its temporary inhabitants have become.

Clearly some of us share some evolutinary differences so let's just agree to disagree.

Thank ya fer your caaaaall (in my best Tradio voice)

 

[Shel]

If you truly believe exercising common courtesy to fellow human beings is laying down "like a scared, whipped puppy, with his tail between his legs" it's a testament to how pathetically sad this world and its temporary inhabitants have become.

Sorry if reading isn't your forte...

I CLEARLY stated, that if I was asked to not smoke in a restaurant, by a manager or even another customer, I'd take it outside.

This is NOT the same thing as simply never vaping where smoking isn't allowed.

Is that concept THAT hard for you to understand???

Our "evolutinary" differences may just stem from reading comprehension.

 

[Shel]

I agree with this one. vape where you want. I am in the army....

Thanks for your service, Happy!

 

[Scottitude]

Sorry if reading isn't your forte...

I CLEARLY stated, that if I was asked to not smoke in a restaurant, by a manager or even another customer, I'd take it outside.

This is NOT the same thing as simply never vaping where smoking isn't allowed.

Is that concept THAT hard for you to understand???

Our "evolutionary" differences may just stem from reading comprehension.

So wait... are we talking about vaping or smoking? See, even you can't keep your details straight. And you question others' comprehension. Tsk-tsk.

Like I said, let's just agree to disagree. I have nothing against you; I don't know you. I'm just not on board with advocating in-your-face vaping.

You say tomato, I say obnoxious.

 

[Shel]

So wait... are we talking about vaping or smoking? See, even you can't keep your details straight. And you question others' comprehension. Tsk-tsk.

You're righ! I'm lame! Guilty as charged....

Like I said, let's just agree to disagree. I have nothing against you; I don't know you. I'm just not on board with advocating in-your-face vaping.

You say tomato, I say obnoxious.

Hey, I don't want to get into being obnoxious, and if I have in this thread, let me appologize.

Just voicing my opinion, and wanting to see vaping and eCigs have a long life, and NOT be killed by the FDA, big Tobbaco Industry, the Gov.t, etc.

If I came across as obnoxious, let me appologize again...

 

[Vapenstein]

One: It is not cool to just vape wherever you feel like it, for obvious reasons.
Two: You are not going to evangelize vaping to non-smokers, and they don't get that you aren't smoking.
Three: You can evangelize to smokers, so go vape in a smoking area, like you're supposed to.
Four: Please do not vape next to me in a restaurant or theater, because you and I will be having words. I really don't care to smell your bananas foster juice all night.

Not following the same etiquette with vaping you would with smoking is incredibly impolite and will simply alienate people instead of winning them over.

 

[curiousJan]

One: It is not cool to just vape wherever you feel like it, for obvious reasons.
Two: You are not going to evangelize vaping to non-smokers, and they don't get that you aren't smoking.
Three: You can evangelize to smokers, so go vape in a smoking area, like you're supposed to.
Four: Please do not vape next to me in a restaurant or theater, because you and I will be having words. I really don't care to smell your bananas foster juice all night.

Not following the same etiquette with vaping you would with smoking is incredibly impolite and will simply alienate people instead of winning them over.

This is all just opinion ... "cool" - subjective, "they don't get.." - while that may be true of some, of others it is not therefore situation specific and subjective, "like you're supposed to" - Hello, unless you're Johnny Law you've got absolutely no business telling me what I'm supposed or supposed not to do as long as I'm within the law (which I am in the state in which I live), as for Four - completely your opinion which you have every right to and every right to request that I stop vaping or to speak to a manager regarding it in case I've already gotten permission to vape on premise.

And no matter how strongly any of us feel it is highly unlikely that any at the poles of this matter will change their position, so we'll just have to agree to disagree (and I for one am able to do that without the name calling and personal intelligence attacks -- which is a comment directed at some of the other posters not the poster who is quoted.)

Jan

 

[curiousJan]

CuriousJan put it best (and I hope he/she doesn't mind my quoting them...)

If we don't work to overcome the smoking stigma that the FDA and the like are trying to tie into vaping as well, the FDA/BT/BP will win.

I will not lie down quietly while the government spreads myths and outright falsehoods on the way to stealing away my personal choice and my right to defend and protect my health.

Thanks, don't mind a bit!
Jan

 

[Vapenstein]

I would say that every single one of us is an evangelist for vaping while it's in its infancy. First impressions are hard to overcome. Don't you think it's extremely important how we tread until the mainstream understands what vaping is? Good manners are the glue that holds society together. No sense alienating people. If you want to fight, fight anti-vaping legislation. Fighting the mainstream is just shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[The Rebel]

I would say that every single one of us is an evangelist for vaping while it's in its infancy. First impressions are hard to overcome. Don't you think it's extremely important how we tread until the mainstream understands what vaping is? Good manners are the glue that holds society together. No sense alienating people. If you want to fight, fight anti-vaping legislation. Fighting the mainstream is just shooting yourself in the foot.

Good points. But treading undercover does nothing to obtaining acceptance. Now treading with good manners will certainly get you further in the the acceptance of PVs. I haven't been shot down yet when using my PV in a public place. Want to know why? Because of good manners. I have vaped in bars, restaurants, wedding receptions, sporting events, etc. And the only reason I've vaped at all these places? I ASK BEFORE I VAPE! I kindly explain about vaping and the PV I am using. I don't tell them that what I exhale is only "water vapor" because until some lab does a study to confirm it, I'm not quite sure what I exhale. But I always ask permission first. Polite is the way to go and will do more to help PVs gain acceptance than a "in your face" approach.

Example:

Me: "Excuse me, do you allow the use of personal vaporizers?"

Waitress: "Personal Vapor?"

Me: "Yes, I use it as a nicotine transfer system, much like the patch or gum." "It uses flavored liquid that has nicotine in it and it creates a vapor that I inhale." "There is no smoke, or burning tobacco, and no ash or cigarette butts."

Waitress: "Is that like an electronic cigarette?"

Me: "Sort of, except what I use looks nothing like a cigarette because I'm using it to help keep me off of cigarettes and I wouldn't want one that looks like one to remind me."

Waitress: "Cool, you can use it as long as you tell me where you got it."

Me: "Here's a website address with all the information you'll ever need." www.e-cigarette-forum.com

Works every time. Try the polite approach first, if you're turned down, head outside with the smokers, or stealth vape in the bathroom.

Vape on!

 

[Kevin Freeheart]

Me: "Excuse me, do you allow the use of personal vaporizers?"

Waitress: "Personal Vapor?"

Me: "Yes, I use it as a nicotine transfer system, much like the patch or gum." "It uses flavored liquid that has nicotine in it and it creates a vapor that I inhale." "There is no smoke, or burning tobacco, and no ash or cigarette butts."

(*This is not directed at the author of the above quote, that quote just kind of triggered a rant...*)

I was thinking, as an aside on another thread, that vapers aren't always entirely conscious of signals we're sending. As a political activist, a lot of time I have to think about the assumptions my words use.

For instance, when I say "cigarette" on this forum, people think 'analog'. If I say it to a non-smoker, they think of a stinky Marlboro, likely (including the negative connotation). Yet when I say "tobacco cigarette", it's generally shocking enough to make people think about the term and then ask "What other kinds of cigarettes are there"... Useful when pitching legalization of other drugs.

Likewise, MANY (but indeed, not all!) of the people on this forum use personal vaporizers as nicotine delivery systems in place of cigarettes. But that's not what personal vaporizers are, that's what WE THINK OF THEM AS.

Indeed, a personal vaporizer could also be a replacement for a candy habit. It allows you to take in flavors or your choosing without the negative side effect (tongue stain, sugar, artifical sweetener, you pick) of the thing you're trying to avoid.

When I think about what I'm doing in reality (versus my motivations for doing it), vaping becomes a lot more acceptable. If you were not a smoker and had been introduced to vaping as the aforementioned "candy replacement", would you even THINK to ask if it was okay to vape a berry-flavored juice (recall, it's a candy replacement... adding nicotine to candy for a non-smoker is just silly!) in public?

I think the underlying assumption, that vaping is a replacement for smoking, is both wrong given the stories some people have posted on this very forum and harmful because of the way it unconsciously shifts the way we describe and explain them.

If you think of vaping as a replacement for smoking, you're likely subconsciously defending vaping as if it's under attack for the same reasons smoking would be. And if you're doing that, as someone who is vaping, you're not sending confidant "vaping is okay" signals all the time.

 

[Willriker]

im not trying to pick a fight, i really am not.

But, i would like to point out that getting permission to use your PV in a certain location is a very differant animal from having your PV be socially aceptable in a certain location. Sometimes this line get blurred durig themany conversations that happen about this topic. While it is fantastic that the waitress you are refering to responded that way, i think we all agree that we would like to get to a point where that entire conversation would not be needed.

In order for that to happen, people ned to view the PV in a positive light. So, everything that is done, needs to be done in a way that fosters a positive attitude towards PV's. This is where the dissagreement comes in. Some say the best way is to vape where smoking is not allowed. If you deal with the fallout in a certian way, the net result is a positive one. Others say that you will get far more good will towards PVs by converting smokers to the PV. The argument is that youll get much more good will towards these units for getting someone to quit smoking (from their friends, family, coworkers) than you ever will by vaping where smoking isnt allowed.

I agree with the latter arguement. I think the ratio of good will:bad will is not even close. For every one person that i successfully get to switch over to the PV from tobacco, means many many people will see someont one using this to get off of analogs. And even if it does not work for that person, these units are still viewed in a positive light. They are viewed as an alternative to smoking by everyone else. I much prefer this approach as apposed to that feeling like i need to explain myself to some antismoking zealot or store manager fielding complaints.

The goal is to not have people complain, so why would you set up a situation where someone would feel the need to complain? Your just taking one step back in an attempt to take 2 steps forward.

Dont getme wrong, sometime n the future, this would be the appropriate way to approach the issue. But, we arent there yet. Lets not jump the gun and force no-vaping bans... after all that has been the result of this tactic in some states.

 

[curiousJan]

I would say that every single one of us is an evangelist for vaping while it's in its infancy. First impressions are hard to overcome. Don't you think it's extremely important how we tread until the mainstream understands what vaping is? Good manners are the glue that holds society together. No sense alienating people. If you want to fight, fight anti-vaping legislation. Fighting the mainstream is just shooting yourself in the foot.

You are making an assumption that I am alienating people ... I am not. I am polite, I am courteous, I am unobtrusive unless I _have_ gotten permission. If questioned I provide information, and I will most certainly stop if requested. Also as stated, I probably won't patronize that business again. Their business, their choice; my money, my choice. Simple as that.

Why do you assume that I'm being an ...... about it? There are those that take that approach; I am not one. Those that do take that approach are doing us all a disservice, with that I agree. But hiding does us no good either ... just my opinion.

Jan

 

[Kevin Freeheart]

Good manners are the glue that holds society together. No sense alienating people.

Maybe a tangent, but I think there are some times when alienating people and making them feel uncomfortable is productive. It's generally my reaction when someone makes a racist or sexist remark. I tell them I don't like it and that it makes them look like an uneducated bigot and that I dont' want to associate with people of that nature.

Most people feel alienated by that reaction, and I think they SHOULD be.

Likewise, if someone thinks for a minute that what I put into my body without affecting other people is THEIR business, they should be made to feel alienated and uncomfortable.

I WILL vape where I want. If some business or person has a problem with it, I don't want to be there.

 

[Vapenstein]

Why do you assume that I'm being an ...... about it?
Jan

Wow, where in my post would you possibly derive that impression from??? This reply makes you look like you're spoiling for a fight. Not interested.

I politely stated my opinion and said nothing directed at any specific forum member.

 

[hairball]

I vape in a bunch of none smoking places. I also agree that vaping should mostly be done around other smokers to get the word out. However, since quitting analogs, the smoke about kills my lungs and nostrils (I smoked 3 packs a day so you think this wouldn't bother me). I don't know about you all but I can't believe that I ever smoked those stinking things. I love having my sense of smell back but on the other hand, I can smell a smoker at 20 feet. Yuck!

 

[Vapenstein]

I WILL vape where I want. If some business or person has a problem with it, I don't want to be there.

Don't you think that is overdoing it? I mean, if I can't vape at my favorite Korean grill, I am still going to eat at my favorite Korean grill. (I couldn't smoke there either) I don't expect to be able to walk into a public place and vape. I couldn't walk into that place and smoke. Even if you can prove that exhaled vapor has zero second hand risk of any kind, you still might be expelling an odor that someone would find offensive. I don't want you walking around with half a bottle of whatever cologne or perfume you like oozing out of every pore, why would I want to smell your vapor, unless I am somewhere that I would expect to smell it, ie a designated tobacco area, park, sidewalk, etc.

Is the e-cigarette lobby about shoving our vaping down everyone else's throats? 'Cause if it is I think we aren't going to be very successful making our point.