Please DO vap where you can't smoke!!!

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wv2win

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Totally agree. Reminds me of a time a very close friend of mine called. Her child had just started walking, and she tells me, "So it's time for you to baby-proof your house so I can bring him over." And she was serious!! "Uhhhh, NO," I told her. "It's time for you to house-proof your kid!"

My home is certainly not the only unsafe environment the children of the world are going to be exposed to, so if I were to totally rearrange my life to obliterate every imaginable hazard, what's that gonna teach a child? Same goes for my vaping in public.

I feel the same way about perceived "dangerous" or "unacceptable" behaviors. Like it or not, at some point children will be exposed to them in one way or another. Such is life. You, as a parent, just use those unexpected exposures as a good opportunity to talk to your child about the realities of the world and try to impress upon them your outlook when it comes to such behavior.

All of us are examples to children; some of us just serve as the bad examples.

That's my :2c:

+1 Good perspective.
 
Totally agree. Reminds me of a time a very close friend of mine called. Her child had just started walking, and she tells me, "So it's time for you to baby-proof your house so I can bring him over." And she was serious!! "Uhhhh, NO," I told her. "It's time for you to house-proof your kid!"

My home is certainly not the only unsafe environment the children of the world are going to be exposed to, so if I were to totally rearrange my life to obliterate every imaginable hazard, what's that gonna teach a child? Same goes for my vaping in public.

I feel the same way about perceived "dangerous" or "unacceptable" behaviors. Like it or not, at some point children will be exposed to them in one way or another. Such is life. You, as a parent, just use those unexpected exposures as a good opportunity to talk to your child about the realities of the world and try to impress upon them your outlook when it comes to such behavior.

All of us are examples to children; some of us just serve as the bad examples.

That's my :2c:

+2 i agree with both sides of the argument... but i think the most positive way will be through converting smokers into vapers their whole family and friends will notice it as a positive thing
 

smokingRN

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I'm a nurse and work in a hospice. I started vaping 3 weeks ago and showed my 510 to the people I work with including a doctor. Afew people tried it. I vape at work on breaks and when I'm charting at the computer. Smoking is not allowed on the property. 4 people have been converted so far. That is why I inform others about it. Dying of lung disease is not pleasant. I watch it everyday and still couldn't quit til now.
 

Big Hitter

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I'm a nurse and work in a hospice. I started vaping 3 weeks ago and showed my 510 to the people I work with including a doctor. Afew people tried it. I vape at work on breaks and when I'm charting at the computer. Smoking is not allowed on the property. 4 people have been converted so far. That is why I inform others about it. Dying of lung disease is not pleasant. I watch it everyday and still couldn't quit til now.

My wife is a RN on an oncology floor and I was the Unit Secretary for our Oncology / Hospice unit.
Thats what convince me to quit. I did a lot of aid duties if I wasn't busy and because I am 6'1" and 200 pounds I got "asked" to help wrap almost all the poor souls that moved on. I saw too many young people suffer far more than any person should.

I have retired, but my wife has been spreading the word of my vaping success at work. She gives out my email and I answer questions, give suggestions, and of course direct folks here.
 

sam12six

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I have such incredibly mixed feelings on this subject. I think some of you are fooling yourselves about educating nonsmokers and antis. Regardless of what you tell them, they don't see you as someone who quit smoking, they see you as a smoker who found a technicality to get around the bans.

That said, I also try and educate businesses. There are a couple of small bars here locally where I've converted the owners because they were also ...... about the smoking bans (since they own the building but weren't allowed to smoke or allow smoking themselves). They're on my side because they see vaping as a big FU to the people telling them they can't smoke in a bar. Once again, they're smoking as far as they're concerned.

In other words, outside this forum the vast majority of people who see you vaping (regardless of what you tell them) will consider you smokers still. For me, the only place I absolutely wouldn't consider smoking is a restaurant (but then, I'm touchy about what people do when others are eating - I've nearly come to blows because the person sitting 3 feet from blew his nose about 6 times while I was trying to eat).

Like it or not, there's no long term studies on the safety of vaping. Since it's a relatively new thing, there won't be any such studies for a good 15 years. Anyone who sees you vaping clouds of some substance into their air space has a right to wonder if it's safe. In the absence of the long term studies I just mentioned, there's nothing (short of a pull-it-out-your-... opinion to combat their concern). Basically, unless and until there's evidence that says they should do otherwise, it's inevitable that the powers that be are going to treat vaping like smoking. Smoking in places where cigarettes are banned is a matter of us being ahead of the curve legally. It won't last.

PS

The child example thing:

It tickles me that someone would expect a total stranger to change their lifestyle to set a good example to their kids. I've been smoking (and drinking beer) while fishing and had a family show up to have a picnic and the father come over and ask me to put out my cigarette and hide my beer because he doesn't want his kids to think smoking and drinking are cool. I politely explained that 1) I was here first. 2) I'm doing nothing illegal. and 3) That the way we're heading, we run the risk of giving them the impression that beating their daddy half to death is cool. The father, convinced by my logic went back and had a nice picnic with his family.
 

Zeroi

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I agreed with you.
In Singapore, No Smoking sign is everywhere in such a small Country. But u can smoke other places like 10m away from the Entrance so long there a Smoking corner or where there is no Smoking sign but u can't smoke where children playground or garden. I have to Vape around the smoking corners there sometime when i feel like i wanted to blow out the Vapour like a Dragon. i can't do the Dragon thing in the Mall or where there is no smokers as i feel wierd. But when i vape in the Smokers Corners, i feel like i am the alien from another world. The Eyes they look at me, look like i from Mars etc. no doubt some are so interested and they kept asking question, i am all out to help them to get one. so by spreading the word! By gaining in numbers eventually this ban of e-cig thing will be different. I wish that Singapore will change the Ban of Certain e-Cig rather than to ban such a general term e-cig.

Seriously i hate the smoke which Smokers giving out, when i stand 3-10 metres away, i can still get my shirt stink by the Tobacco Smoke. I really hate that.


I have such incredibly mixed feelings on this subject. I think some of you are fooling yourselves about educating nonsmokers and antis. Regardless of what you tell them, they don't see you as someone who quit smoking, they see you as a smoker who found a technicality to get around the bans.

That said, I also try and educate businesses. There are a couple of small bars here locally where I've converted the owners because they were also ...... about the smoking bans (since they own the building but weren't allowed to smoke or allow smoking themselves). They're on my side because they see vaping as a big FU to the people telling them they can't smoke in a bar. Once again, they're smoking as far as they're concerned.

In other words, outside this forum the vast majority of people who see you vaping (regardless of what you tell them) will consider you smokers still. For me, the only place I absolutely wouldn't consider smoking is a restaurant (but then, I'm touchy about what people do when others are eating - I've nearly come to blows because the person sitting 3 feet from blew his nose about 6 times while I was trying to eat).

Like it or not, there's no long term studies on the safety of vaping. Since it's a relatively new thing, there won't be any such studies for a good 15 years. Anyone who sees you vaping clouds of some substance into their air space has a right to wonder if it's safe. In the absence of the long term studies I just mentioned, there's nothing (short of a pull-it-out-your-... opinion to combat their concern). Basically, unless and until there's evidence that says they should do otherwise, it's inevitable that the powers that be are going to treat vaping like smoking. Smoking in places where cigarettes are banned is a matter of us being ahead of the curve legally. It won't last.

PS

The child example thing:

It tickles me that someone would expect a total stranger to change their lifestyle to set a good example to their kids. I've been smoking (and drinking beer) while fishing and had a family show up to have a picnic and the father come over and ask me to put out my cigarette and hide my beer because he doesn't want his kids to think smoking and drinking are cool. I politely explained that 1) I was here first. 2) I'm doing nothing illegal. and 3) That the way we're heading, we run the risk of giving them the impression that beating their daddy half to death is cool. The father, convinced by my logic went back and had a nice picnic with his family.
 

kristin

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I have such incredibly mixed feelings on this subject. I think some of you are fooling yourselves about educating nonsmokers and antis. Regardless of what you tell them, they don't see you as someone who quit smoking, they see you as a smoker who found a technicality to get around the bans.

How am I fooling myself when I've seen it first hand? Non-smokers who have the opportunity to smell the vapor, see how it doesn't fill a room like smoke and find out that it's the same stuff they are exposed to in a nightclub or theater have no reason to demand that it be done outside like smoking. That first-hand experience shows them how illogical it is to ban them indoors. I've told non-smokers (after ademo) how they are trying to ban e-cigs and ALL of them thought it was stupid to ban them.


If you explain it to non-smokers as a way around bans, they will see e-cigs that way an be offended. If you explain to them that it a way to avoid cigarette smoke and improve your health, they see it in a different light and support it. If non-smokers are educated and don't demand it, legislators have no public pressure to ban e-cigarettes indoors. The pressure will come from uneducated or public health-duped non-smokers, not from smokers - that is why it's still prudent to at least TRY to win them over.
 
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WarsawNan

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If non-smokers are educated and don't demand it, legislators have no public pressure to ban e-cigarettes indoors. The pressure will come from uneducated or public health-duped non-smokers, not from smokers - that is why it's still prudent to at least TRY to win them over.

Actually the pressure is coming from the cigarette manufacturers and the drug companies, and regardless of what we do or don't do in public, they are the ones who are gonna kill it for us.... the guys with the big bucks.
 

my2heartboys

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Good for you smokingRN. Recently I had to spend a bit of the morning with my son at the dentist office. Knowing that I would have to assist in keeping his hands occupied (only his third visit in his whole life.....long story), I had grabbed my coffee flavored ejuice and took it with me. While waiting I would take a few puffs here and there. Staff did not seem to mind and not surprised at all. I, of course, made a point of blowing the left over vapor down to the floor, did not vape while they were actually working on him and certainly did not turn the treatment room into a London fog type environment.

I would very much have the right to vape in public places, but I also believe in showing some respect as well.
 

my2heartboys

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sam12six, we have not used technology to get around the ban but, rather, have used technology to get the addictive substance that we crave without getting the millions of other multiple other substances that are consumed and produced by smoking an actual cigarette. Not to mention that we are using it to get around the normal odor associated with smoking.
 

sam12six

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How am I fooling myself when I've seen it first hand? Non-smokers who have the opportunity to smell the vapor, see how it doesn't fill a room like smoke and find out that it's the same stuff they are exposed to in a nightclub or theater have no reason to demand that it be done outside like smoking. That first-hand experience shows them how illogical it is to ban them indoors. I've told non-smokers (after ademo) how they are trying to ban e-cigs and ALL of them thought it was stupid to ban them.


If you explain it to non-smokers as a way around bans, they will see e-cigs that way an be offended. If you explain to them that it a way to avoid cigarette smoke and improve your health, they see it in a different light and support it. If non-smokers are educated and don't demand it, legislators have no public pressure to ban e-cigarettes indoors. The pressure will come from uneducated or public health-duped non-smokers, not from smokers - that is why it's still prudent to at least TRY to win them over.

I didn't say ALL of you are fooling yourselves.

I'm saying that shoving something down someone's throat and telling them to like it won't do your "cause" much good.

You're right, if you explain that the PV is the only thing that's been able to help you stop smoking cigarettes and frame the concept as the PV being your defense against big tobacco, they'll see it in a better light generally.

That said, no one can say inhaling ejuice vapor is safe. Sure, we believe it's at least safer because most of us have personally felt how not smoking cigarettes has benefited us health-wise. However, just because we have a personal feeling on the matter, doesn't give us long-term studies on the safety of the habit.

Remember, they used to advertise cigarettes as more than safe. They advertised that they were good for you (clear your respiratory system, etc.)

This was because they didn't have long-term evidence to the contrary. Until there are case studies of people who vaped daily for 20 years, there's no definitive way to say that PV are not a health hazard. That being the case, lawmakers are going to err on the side of caution (if they err at all) and add PVs to the cigarette ban.

I personally think it's irresponsible to tell someone, "Look, it does no harm.", and blow vapor in their face when we don't know that for sure. Asbestos did nothing but discourage building fires too (until they did studies on people who worked with it daily for a couple of decades).

To paraphrase something I saw Mistress Nomad post (with my own brand of charm):
Logically, inhaling PG and VG vapor with nicotine and flavoring added is less harmful than inhaling the burnt tobacco, paper, and added chemicals of a cigarette. Also logically, only an idiot would believe that inhaling fresh, vapor-free air isn't less harmful still.

The whole smoking ban thing is predicated on the concept that smoking is harmful to the people around you (regardless of any exaggerations in the interpretation of the study data). Telling someone that blowing out clouds of vapor into the air they're breathing won't do them any harm is lying. Even if time proves that you're right, it's lying now because we just don't know that to be true.

Personally, I'm a firm believer in the PV as a better alternative to cigarettes. Every time I walk a half mile to the corner store, my lungs thank me for switching (my pride too, since I never have to stop halfway and pretend something's caught my interest to let myself catch my breath).

I believe people should have the right to use a PV. Of course, I also believe people should be able to smoke cigarettes, ride motorcycles without helmets, or drive without a seatbelt. Before I ever heard of a PV, I constantly railed against the injustice of blanket cigarette bans. I believe an adult should have the right to do anything that he or she wants as long as it doesn't hurt someone else. I also believe that a property owner (renter really) should have the right to allow adults to participate in any activity that's not illegal.

I've said before, complaining that vaping is treated the same as smoking is as naive as complaining that you were arrested for pulling a cap gun on a bank teller. Ecigarettes were designed to mimic cigarettes - they create "smoke" that we inhale and blow back out. To the world at large (and even to some of us who vape), we're still smoking. We've just chosen what we feel is a less harmful way of doing so. Keeping that in mind, again it's inevitable that as soon as they can make it happen, the powers that be are going to ensure that the less harmful smokers are going to be standing next to the more harmful smokers.
 

Shel

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I didn't say ALL of you are fooling yourselves.

I'm saying that shoving something down someone's throat and telling them to like it won't do your "cause" much good.

I agree.

However, I, as the OP, have NEVER said that I would/do shove it down someone's throat, and tell them to like it!

I've said that where I am located, in So. Calif., NOBODY CARES when I vap in public, in no smoking areas... is this that hard to understand? Or perhaps, in Georgia, everyone gets upset if you or others vap in no smoking areas. From the posts I've read in this and other threads, most non-smokers and non-vapers do not have a problem with vaping! Why do some vapers seem to continue to have an issue with it?

Talk about "Shoving something down someone's throat!

If people I come in contact with, when vaping (and I've vaped a LOT in public, not obnoxiously, I blow the vap away from others, sit near the outdoors when possible, etc. etc) don't have any problem with it, but people on these boards seem to want to insist that I and others should "go outside with the smokers" when we vap... who's trying to "Shove something down someone's throat"???

Hey, if people in Georgia or where YOU happen to live are intolerant, ignorant or just plan hostile, by all means... GO OUTSIDE, and join the smokers! No skin off my back! I do feel, though, that people who live in more enlightened regions can spread the word more effectively, by vaping WHERE IT IS LEGALLY ALLOWED!
I've said before, complaining that vaping is treated the same as smoking is as naive as complaining that you were arrested for pulling a cap gun on a bank teller.

HUH???

WHY would anyone "pull a cap gun on a bank teller"???

What a ridiculous example!

I don't VAP in public to prove anything, although, I do feel it will help gain acceptance. However, I vap in public for the same reasons I vap in the privacy of my own home, I LIKE TO VAP!

I DO NOT like to pull cap guns on bank tellers, I have no reason to pull a cap gun on a teller, and this is the most idiotic comparison to vaping in public that I believe I've read so far!!!

People... DO WHAT YOU WANT as far as VAPING.

BUT... when the tobacco industry, the Gov't, comes and outlaws it, and there is NO OBJECTION from the majority of the public, don't wonder why that is!!!

And please... don't go blaming those who DO vap in public, and find that they are NOT coming in contact with "hostile smoke nazis", but are, instead, coming across people interested in learning more about vaping, and passing it along to their family and friends.

Don' take my word for it, read the previous threads... and see for yourself the type of response the vast majority of vapers are recieving when they vap in public. It is a response of positive vibs and feedback!
 

BCB

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I live in a remote "hick" area of Idaho, in the woods, near Canada. Sparsely populated. I vape all over the place with never a thought that I'm doing anything wrong, because I'm not. Since I began with PV's, I noticed the lady who sells me eggs is using one, some young 20-somethings are, the postmistress is wanting to learn, my 70 year old neighbor with COPD is vaping again since her last hospital visit. None of the vaping I've witnessed is either IN YOUR FACE or stealth. It's just vaping. It's not against the law. I think it's strange that people are so worried that we're "offending" someone. Nothing's offensive that I can figure out.
 

sam12six

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I agree.

However, I, as the OP, have NEVER said that I would/do shove it down someone's throat, and tell them to like it!

I've said that where I am located, in So. Calif., NOBODY CARES when I vap in public, in no smoking areas... is this that hard to understand? Or perhaps, in Georgia, everyone gets upset if you or others vap in no smoking areas. From the posts I've read in this and other threads, most non-smokers and non-vapers do not have a problem with vaping! Why do some vapers seem to continue to have an issue with it?

Talk about "Shoving something down someone's throat!

If people I come in contact with, when vaping (and I've vaped a LOT in public, not obnoxiously, I blow the vap away from others, sit near the outdoors when possible, etc. etc) don't have any problem with it, but people on these boards seem to want to insist that I and others should "go outside with the smokers" when we vap... who's trying to "Shove something down someone's throat"???

Hey, if people in Georgia or where YOU happen to live are intolerant, ignorant or just plan hostile, by all means... GO OUTSIDE, and join the smokers! No skin off my back! I do feel, though, that people who live in more enlightened regions can spread the word more effectively, by vaping WHERE IT IS LEGALLY ALLOWED!

Shoving it down someone's throat is talking about the attitude that keeps popping up concerning the activity where people say things like, "Please DO vap where you can't smoke!!!".

Vaping in a building with permission from the owner is a different issue from vaping everywhere because you think you've got a legal right to do so. I mentioned before that I vape in a couple of places subject to a legal cigarette ban but the owners are on board with vaping.

If I walked into a place and just pulled out my Ego without explaining ahead of time that it's not a cigarette and they won't get a ticket for it I would be a jerk. If I sat in a restaurant blowing vapor around and people were concerned that that vapor could cause them some harm (which we can't say for a fact won't happen), I'd be a jerk. I would indeed be shoving my habit down people's throats.

And what makes someone wanting you not to vape in their air space ignorant?

Have you done long-term studies on the health ramifications of vaping? No. No one has.

Ignorant is blowing a substance into people's faces and insisting they accept that it's harmless on nothing but your gut feeling (as I said before, I have the same gut feeling but I'm not arrogant enough to believe the world should accept my blowing vapor everywhere I want to because my gut feeling is the same as fact).

HUH???

WHY would anyone "pull a cap gun on a bank teller"???

What a ridiculous example!

I don't VAP in public to prove anything, although, I do feel it will help gain acceptance. However, I vap in public for the same reasons I vap in the privacy of my own home, I LIKE TO VAP!

I DO NOT like to pull cap guns on bank tellers, I have no reason to pull a cap gun on a teller, and this is the most idiotic comparison to vaping in public that I believe I've read so far!!!

People... DO WHAT YOU WANT as far as VAPING.

BUT... when the tobacco industry, the Gov't, comes and outlaws it, and there is NO OBJECTION from the majority of the public, don't wonder why that is!!!

And please... don't go blaming those who DO vap in public, and find that they are NOT coming in contact with "hostile smoke nazis", but are, instead, coming across people interested in learning more about vaping, and passing it along to their family and friends.

Don' take my word for it, read the previous threads... and see for yourself the type of response the vast majority of vapers are recieving when they vap in public. It is a response of positive vibs and feedback!

Firstly, it's only an idiotic example to someone too idiotic to understand it. I'll make it clearer for those people:

Should I pull a cap gun on a bank teller, when I'm arrested, the defense that it's not a real gun and does not shoot a projectile won't fly because it is something that was DELIBERATELY designed to look like a real gun. Just like pulling a real gun on a bank teller would be illegal, brandishing a fake gun would get you the same consequences.

Should I vape in a place where smoking is not allowed, if someone has a problem with it, the defense is that there's no actual burning tobacco and that I don't believe the vapor can hurt anyone. For now, that defense will fly because laws haven't yet universally expanded to classify electronic cigarettes in the same way as cigarettes. Once that changes (and as I said before, I think it's inevitable), the consequences are going to be vaping will be only allowed in smoking areas.

If anyone feels that they're on a legal crusade, they should be devoting their energy to getting bogus smoking laws struck from the records because they're wrong, not because you feel like you're now better than a smoker with your healthier, cleaner habit that emulates smoking.

I live in a remote "hick" area of Idaho, in the woods, near Canada. Sparsely populated. I vape all over the place with never a thought that I'm doing anything wrong, because I'm not. Since I began with PV's, I noticed the lady who sells me eggs is using one, some young 20-somethings are, the postmistress is wanting to learn, my 70 year old neighbor with COPD is vaping again since her last hospital visit. None of the vaping I've witnessed is either IN YOUR FACE or stealth. It's just vaping. It's not against the law. I think it's strange that people are so worried that we're "offending" someone. Nothing's offensive that I can figure out.

It's not about being offensive. It's about being sympathetic to people's legitimate health concerns. Again, I also believe that using a PV is much better for your health than cigarettes. I also wouldn't hesitate to explain to any smoker that I've felt better than I have in years since I switched and recommend they give it a try.

On the other hand, vaping as a replacement for smoking is a very new thing. If we all vape daily for 15 solid years, there's nothing to say that one day later we all won't turn into werewolves (I suspect we won't :laugh:). You are not doing anything wrong vaping, but you may be doing something wrong if you're subjecting other people to it (and you're definitely doing something wrong if you're telling people it can't cause any harm because we just don't know that yet).
 

Liv2Ski

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I vape in public and while not stealth I do try to keep it low key. Today I brought my kids to a Six Flags theme park for Frightfest in Lake George NY. I was not Vaping near people, was standing off to the side waiting for my kids to get off a coaster and BAM two Anti Smoking Nazi's (six flags security) roll up on me. Barked there is No Smoking in the park. I stated politely that I am not smoking and before I could finish one chimed in that includes "electronic cigs".

OK fuse blows at that point since I have a low tolerance for STUPID. So I ask do you know what an electronic cig is? They respond "no but you can not use them." I asked them to go get me a copy of their policy and they looked like fish out of water. Next I told them that unless they turn off the hundred or so fog machines in the park that are putting out 1000 times more vapor than I am they really do not have any basis for their objection. Now I know this is private property but people are walking around with open beer that they sell and if it is wholesome image they are trying to project in a family park what the hell is that????

I smoked for 28 years and lived through the ever increasing draconian rules that relegated us to second class citizens and in some cases criminals. I will be damned if I will stand around and let some plastic badge, mall cop want to be dictate where I can vape.

There I feel a little better now and I did continue to vape for the rest of the day at the park!
 
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Liv2Ski

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Loved the rant, Live2ski. I agree wholeheartedly.

Thanks BCB. I was really trying to be nice and explain to them but when they pulled the attitude I could not believe how angry I got. Maybe it was all those years of sneaking around trying to find a "smoking" section and feeling like I was an outcast for being a smoker.
 
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