Please explain to me: those who died, what were they vaping?

[bombastinator]

While it is possible there are separate problems going on, the evidence to date has found vaping something seems to be the only activity or exposure the cases appear to have in common.

still doesn’t make causality. This is the same issue the Corning breast implant lawsuit managed to end run “I did this thing and this happened” sounds like causality, but it isn’t. How many people who DONT vape THC have these issues? It will be more than zero. There’s all sorts of different things that call BS on a single cause here. Time of onset, clustering, symptoms, all sorts of stuff.

In all cases, other medical causes to explain their illness have been essentially eliminated.

which illness? Part of my suspicion in this is It was maentioned somewhere that the symptoms often aren’t similar with each other. Some are lipid pneumonia, some are things that look like various chemical poisonings, some look like particulate damage.

There have been no reports made public of any cases of otherwise healthy young adults falling ill with an acute respiratory illness of this magnitude of unknown origin.

but it happens. Remember “unknown origin” is questionable here. The problem is someone said “vaping!!” How many of these things happen due to things that aren’t vaping? How often?

Given the degree of attention this has received, and the dramatic presentation of the illness,

assuming there’s only one

I would expect reports to exist if this were not related to some inhalation injury

exactly

related to a vaping product.

why? If we picked a different one like blonde haired people or people identified as witches by their neighbors? the victims would be different because The base criteria would be differentiate but would it be just as compelling?

As to the possibility there may be more than one substance as the cause, that cannot be ruled out from what has been made public. But it seems unlikely two separate agents are causing the same types of illnesses described. Maybe if there were two different syndromes being reported then they could be attributable to different agents, but that does not appear to be the case here.

I get the impression there is more than 2. People with lipid pneumonia aren’t even a majority. I could be wrong about this. My information is limited and this whole thing is based on the concept that there are different lung symptoms. “Lung problem” is not a single problem.

 

[englishmick]

Remember “unknown origin” is questionable here. The problem is someone said “VAPING!!” How many of these things happen due to things that aren’t vaping? How often?

We really know hardly anything for sure. A large % of the victims used THC carts, it's possible the rest were just not admitting to it because it's a crime. Who knows, maybe all those THC vapers were also using the stuff in some other form like smoking or dabbing or whatever which was making them sick. That might explain why there were only 1000 victims out of all the THC cart users. We don't know anything about how much vaping was involved. Were the victims major heavy users who were vaping multiple carts a day, or did some of them only vape a single cart one time? Some of the stories I've seen suggested that the problem came on rapidly after the first use of a cart. Like you said, all we know is "VAPING".

I get the impression there is more than 2. People with lipid pneumonia aren’t even a majority. I could be wrong about this. My information is limited and this whole thing is based on the concept that there are different lung symptoms. “Lung problem” is not a single problem.

From what I remember the chemical poisoning diag came from the Mayo clinic. They said they saw damage that resembled chemical burning. They saw that in all their cases. But nobody else saw it, to my knowledge. They are smart people. Maybe they were using a different or better test and the other investigators just missed it. Or maybe Mayo got it wrong, one doctor said Mayo used a sample prep method which would have washed away any lipids that were present. Seems unlikely that Mayo would have made a mistake that dumb though.

Every bit of information I see makes me more confused. We aren't going to figure it out by nibbling away at the scraps of information that leak out. Hopefully someone will get an answer. In the meantime we will go ahead and abolish the least likely culprit. Because we've got to do something, right?

 

[bombastinator]

We really know hardly anything for sure. A large % of the victims used THC carts, it's possible the rest were just not admitting to it because it's a crime. Who knows, maybe all those THC vapers were also using the stuff in some other form like smoking or dabbing or whatever which was making them sick.

Maybe not even something they did. Remember breathing happens. All they’d have to do is stand near something outgassing or be in a dusty area

That might explain why there were only 1000 victims out of all the THC cart users. We don't know anything about how much vaping was involved. Were the victims major heavy users who were vaping multiple carts a day, or did some of them only vape a single cart one time? Some of the stories I've seen suggested that the problem came on rapidly after the first use of a cart. Like you said, all we know is "VAPING".



From what I remember the chemical poisoning diag came from the Mayo clinic. They said they saw damage that resembled chemical burning. They saw that in all their cases. But nobody else saw it, to my knowledge. They are smart people. Maybe they were using a different or better test and the other investigators just missed it. Or maybe Mayo got it wrong, one doctor said Mayo used a sample prep method which would have washed away any lipids that were present. Seems unlikely that Mayo would have made a mistake that dumb though.

Every bit of information I see makes me more confused. We aren't going to figure it out by nibbling away at the scraps of information that leak out. Hopefully someone will get an answer. In the meantime we will go ahead and abolish the least likely culprit. Because we've got to do something, right?

 

[Ravenscroft]

How about if the concentrated pesticides and whatever chemicals were held in the lungs for a longer time than usual by the vit E residue and cannot be expelled as is often usual for chemicals that invade the aveoli.

Just a thought but sort of makes a bit of sense to me even though it is just a bit of conjecture by me having studied body sciences for a long time.

Just wondering about it all as I am sort of fascinated and perplexed by it all.

 

[KurtVD]

You aren't going to get 100% cases explained. Period. It almost never happens in any outbreak. Dr. Siegel (1) gives the example of 2017 Salmonella outbreak in 7 states plus one province: 19 cases overall, of which 12 (63%)

But that’s different: in your example, 100% of the cases were explained, in that they were sure it was Salmonella. Tracing it back to its source is another story, I agree that is not always possible. So the cause was known, but maybe not the source, whereas in our case, we’re not even sure what the cause is.

 

[United States]

Good question in the title.

Seems there is no one answer though. It does seem an overwhelming majority were vaping THC products. And those that were taken ill were likely using pre-packaged cartridges (perhaps fake Juuls) so it seems it boils down to those who use refillable systems with liquids acquired from reliable sources are not being affected.

In other words there does not seem to be a bad batch of nicotine that somehow made it into things like a bottle of Naked100 mountain chill etc.

 

[Vaperer]

This THC vape stick has damaged my brother's lung seriously. I keep telling him it's the THC vape that he's using but he don't want to hear it. I have a license but I only buy flower. I don't have any cough or the gags. I did buy a THC vape stick and I cough like there was no tomorrow. I'm not a professional nor am I a doctor but this is common sense. It's all because of the THC vape sticks that we're being punished. I'm not a chemist either but there's something in thc vape that's killing people. We have nothing to do with that. I wonder how much money Philip Morris and RJ Reynolds and all the big tobacco have lobbied to get rid of e-cigarettes for their filthy profits. If I Could Turn Back the clock 40 years I would have never smoked. But I don't like being punished for other people's misdeeds. Now I feel better
Just ranting

 

[AngeNZ]

This is from the CDC Updated October 17, 2019 at 3:00 PM ET

• As of October 15, 2019, 1,479* lung injury cases associated with the use of e-cigarette, or vaping, products have been reported to CDC from 49 states (all except Alaska), the District of Columbia, and 1 U.S. territory.
• Thirty-three deaths have been confirmed in 24 states.
• All patients have reported a history of using e-cigarette, or vaping, products.
• We do know that THC is present in most of the samples tested by FDA to date, and most patients report a history of using THC-containing products.
• The latest national and state findings suggest products containing THC, particularly those obtained off the street or from other informal sources (e.g. friends, family members, illicit dealers), are linked to most of the cases and play a major role in the outbreak.
• As such, we recommend that you should not use e-cigarette, or vaping, products that contain THC.

And the annoying bit:

• Since the specific causes or causes of lung injury are not yet known, the only way to assure that you are not at risk while the investigation continues is to consider refraining from use of all e-cigarette, or vaping, products
• The use of e-cigarettes, or vaping, products is unsafe for all ages, including youth and young adults. Nicotine is highly addictive and can harm adolescent brain development, which continues into the early to mid-20s.

 

[bombastinator]

This is from the CDC Updated October 17, 2019 at 3:00 PM ET



And the annoying bit:

still pretending the deeming doesn’t exist I see.

Also that statement about adolescent brain development isn’t as sure as they make it sound. There have only been mouse studies on that one and they’re derivative determinations at that. They’re probably the best we’ll ever be able to get though.

 

[Nermal]

How about if the concentrated pesticides and whatever chemicals were held in the lungs for a longer time than usual by the vit E residue and cannot be expelled as is often usual for chemicals that invade the aveoli.

Just a thought but sort of makes a bit of sense to me even though it is just a bit of conjecture by me having studied body sciences for a long time.

Just wondering about it all as I am sort of fascinated and perplexed by it all.

Interesting hypothesis. You could be right.

 

[Blitzdonlife]

This is what I understand happened based on my limited understanding of things.

People smoked cannabis for many years. Cannabis became illegal due to some b.s. socioeconomic reasons. People in disadvantaged social classes continued smoking cannabis anyway, risking jail time.

Cannabis gained popularity in less disadvantaged social classes. It became more accepted. Some states saw the advantage to legalization of cannabis. Decriminalization was put in place to protect the less disadvantaged.

Vaping cannabis was already an established practice at the time, in the minority of cannabis users.

Bam, ecigarettes came on the scene. They were kinda weak, but the technology began.

Tobacco master settlement agreements were enacted, paying states for every cigarette sold. States borrowed on what they thought was a sure source of income. After a few very slow years, new devices started popularizing nicotine vaping.

The popularity of nicotine vaping grew exponentially among former smokers. What was once a hobby, became a trend. Small ecigarette businesses boomed, big tobacco sales plummetted.

THC distillates soared in popularity. Demand far exceeded supply. There was a crop shortage in cheap marijuana, increasing the costs, and decreasing the available supply of base materials.

States had loans that were harder to pay, and BT was breathing down their necks. Favors were called in, and the pressure to find a solution became incredibly intense. Someone (or a group) designed a master plan to destroy the small business industry of nicotine vaping.

Misinformation was spread about contamination of THC distillates, probably toting safety, and no harm, with increased profits. THC carts were contaminated, probably unknowingly, then distributed. Vaping disease outbreak happens.

Conflation of THC vaping with Nicotine vaping was then instituted, based on similarity of appearances in the delivery devices used. Certain details were omitted, and drug testing is delayed long enough for a media smear campaign to be effective in causing a moral panic.

Youth vaping thrown into the same catagory as deaths and illnesses, in a concerted effort to cast vaping in a negative light. State bans are enacted, businesses closed, and nicotine vapings public reputation has been destroyed.

End result, where we are today.

 

[mgordon1100]

Yep. That. Exactly.

A very different statement in content than was made earlier yet appears as only as a change in the website. The only way to know it even happened is to read and reread the site as it is updated, which few people have time for.

Yeah, they created the public outcrie and damage before releasing that. It's too late now.

 

[bombastinator]

This is what I understand happened based on my limited understanding of things.

People smoked cannabis for many years. Cannabis became illegal due to some b.s. socioeconomic reasons. People in disadvantaged social classes continued smoking cannabis anyway, risking jail time.

Cannabis gained popularity in less disadvantaged social classes. It became more accepted. Some states saw the advantage to legalization of cannabis. Decriminalization was put in place to protect the less disadvantaged.

Vaping cannabis was already an established practice at the time, in the minority of cannabis users.

Bam, ecigarettes came on the scene. They were kinda weak, but the technology began.

Tobacco master settlement agreements were enacted, paying states for every cigarette sold. States borrowed on what they thought was a sure source of income. After a few very slow years, new devices started popularizing nicotine vaping.

The popularity of nicotine vaping grew exponentially among former smokers. What was once a hobby, became a trend. Small ecigarette businesses boomed, big tobacco sales plummetted.

THC distillates soared in popularity. Demand far exceeded supply. There was a crop shortage in cheap marijuana, increasing the costs, and decreasing the available supply of base materials.

States had loans that were harder to pay, and BT was breathing down their necks. Favors were called in, and the pressure to find a solution became incredibly intense. Someone (or a group) designed a master plan to destroy the small business industry of nicotine vaping.

Misinformation was spread about contamination of THC distillates, probably toting safety, and no harm, with increased profits. THC carts were contaminated, probably unknowingly, then distributed. Vaping disease outbreak happens.

Conflation of THC vaping with Nicotine vaping was then instituted, based on similarity of appearances in the delivery devices used. Certain details were omitted, and drug testing is delayed long enough for a media smear campaign to be effective in causing a moral panic.

Youth vaping thrown into the same catagory as deaths and illnesses, in a concerted effort to cast vaping in a negative light. State bans are enacted, businesses closed, and nicotine vapings public reputation has been destroyed.

End result, where we are today.

Only one modification I can think of off hand. During That 100+ year period you speak of cannibis was a cultured crop, and like all crops over that same period it’s nature changed radically. Humans bend plants to suit their purposes and the change can be radical.

There are paintings around of old style watermelons. They look like completely different plants. Mostly white with large seeds and huge voids. Humans like the seedless pink bits best though and now watermelons are seedless and pink the whole way through.

what humans liked in cannabis is THC. Cannabis has LOTS more THC now. Orders of magnitude more. It’s not the same thing Abraham Lincoln smoked.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Only one modification I can think of off hand. During That 100+ year period you speak of cannibis was a cultured crop, and like all crops over that same period it’s nature changed radically. Humans bend plants to suit their purposes and the change can be radical.

There are paintings around of old style watermelons. They look like completely different plants. Mostly white with large seeds and huge voids. Humans like the seedless pink bits best though and now watermelons are seedless and pink the whole way through.

what humans liked in cannabis is THC. Cannabis has LOTS more THC now. Orders of magnitude more. It’s not the same thing Abraham Lincoln smoked.

Watermelons have evolved from generations of selective breeding. Someone was wise enough to take the best looking watermelon of African descent, post a profile on Ashley Madison, and match it up with the sweetest watermelons of Southern America. Ensure there was enough wine and Berry White playing in the background to strike the right mood, and we now have our current watermelon.

Cannabis is much the same and different strains have been bred together…. Even without the aid of romantic music and consenting adult web sites. But improvements in cultivation and hydroponics also yields a higher THC level.

 

[Egzoset]

Salutations KurtVD,

...doesn’t seem to make sense

Indeed, what's the link between nicotine, e-Liquid, vitamin-E acetate & similar filling agents, Pest Control Products, oil(s), devices/materials on top of a delivery method if not intense conduction heat from a typical sub-Ohm coil heater??

We know from experience that vaping PG/VG based juices are safe to vape, so I don’t wanna talk about that.

Although i agree the e-Liquid ain't no trigger point many months ago a sudden rise of contaminants in response to more restrictive standards as in California appeared to cause "laboratory shoping" in the case of THC/CBD products, in order to make them pass testing while failed batches later re-apeared in the "illicit" market.

Overall i'd point an accusating finger at the combination of intense conduction heat + chemical compounds in a context where monster clouds would be prefered to metered dosing, provided the later feature even existed at all.

Do we have an explanation for these cases that actually makes sense?

M'well, if vaporizers don't kill and neither smoking nor dabbing then i'd say the whole "vaping" concept urgently needs to be revisited. Keep the heater separate from its associated load and switch to convection mode... Then wait patiently to see if that's better, or just watch for serious public health failures with the other consumption methods as well.

IMO it's grotesque to blame THC alone, except if it's part of a more global concept where microscopic airborn droplets vary in size as a function of transformation energy: if too large it stays mechanically trapped on the alveolar side. ... As previously mentioned it just ain't anymore safe to accuse the "illicit" market as this could deceive from a potential danger from "legal" products that wouldn't have passed strict testing by multiple independant peers. One way or another PCP soups are potentially exposed to intense heat promoting secondary reactions yet to be documented as there are secret ingredients in pesticides, for example. In any of those case the lungs/vascular transfer rate/capacity is clearly limited in absence of reasonable dosing, which in itself could explain chronic inflammation.

Briefly put i get the impression each of the factors can be tolerated on an "incidental" basis, individually, yet together these still create some critical synergy in presence of an energy input intense enough to involve repeated heat-driven denaturation via "cooking" near the contact surface of a coil, presumably.

Which of course won't seem popular around here as it suggests a convective mode replacement for e-Cig atomizers is now required to survive greed-induced incidents in a wild/poorly regulated market unprepared to deal with multi-spray soups that juxtapose potential poison "traces" by the dozen. Etc., etc...

So, please resist the temptation of propagating decoys as THC and/or "illicit" since it only buys time for the ultimate prohibitionists obviously gambling on "Harm Reduction" failures anyway.

Good day, have fun!!

 

[zapped]

After speaking at length with a research chemist from the CDC as well as with Jay Taylor who is a vape shop owner and President of the Virginia Smoke Free Association.... in addition to my own research and extensive knowledge of vaping, I feel confident in saying the recent spate of illnesses and deaths are caused by a number of related factors.

These are the known facts of the case:

Thousands of people have been vaping since 2009 with no reported deaths or other illnesses.

87 percent of the illnesses and deaths reported to the CDC have admitted to using THC vaping products. One subject admitted to lying after interviews with his friends, who were also affected, revealed that he had used THC cartridges.

Im guessing that's the case with the other 13 percent as well. They either don't want to get in trouble with their parents or authorities or don't want the stigma attached.

The first culprit is oil.

There is no oil in traditional ejuice or liquid. Every ingredients we use is water soluble. Nicotine in a suspension of PG/VG, alcohol based flavorings, sweetening agents like ethyl maltol Propylene Glycol and Vegetable Glycerine.

The closest thing we have to an oil is vegetable glycerin. But it isn't an oil because its water soluble.

This distinction is important.

One of the most popular easiest and cheapest ways to extract THC is by using oil or butter as a carrier.

THC extracts using this method will not dissolve in regular e-juice or eliquids.

That's why the CDC found high levels of vitamin e acetate and other oils on the lungs of those affected.

Another important distinction to make between traditional e-liquid and the liquid used in these THC cartridges is that our lungs cannot clear these oils.

This is what's causing lipoid pneumonia and in the case of vitamin E acetate, chemical burns to the lungs of the victims. There has also been traces of hydrogen cyanide, likely from pesticides used on the plants, found in these oils

It's helpful to envision these oils as a poultice applied to the lungs. Any chemicals inside are going to have much longer contact with our alveoli and far greater potential for harm than water-based / water soluble liquids.

If you do a Google search on the term "THC vape oil diy" you will find at least a dozen companies offering oils to use as carriers for oil-based THC extracts. Some even have their own proprietary blend.

Not a single one of those products is safe to vape!

This goes for all oil based THC and CBD Vape products.

There are other extraction methods for THC and CBD including steeping in PG/VG and alcohol based tinctures. ...both of which can be used with traditional e-liquids or ejuices.

If you are using a CBD vape product and are unsure contact your local brick and mortar store, your supplier or manufacturer and ask if it's made with an alcohol based tincture.

Those products should be fine provided that the marijuana used is clean and free of pesticides and other chemicals.

And if they don't know, or can't tell you. Don't use their products until you can find out.

 

[bombastinator]

After speaking at length with a research chemist from the CDC well as with Jay Taylor who is a vape shop owner and President of the Virginia Smoke Free Association.... in addition to my own research and extensive knowledge of vaping, I feel confident in saying the recent spate of illnesses and deaths are caused by a number of related factors.

These are the known facts of the case:

Thousands of people have been vaping since 2009 with no reported deaths or other illnesses.

87 percent of the illnesses and deaths reported to the CDC have admitted to using THC vaping products. One subject, admitted to lying after interviews with his friends who were also affected, revealed that he had used THC cartridges.

Im guessing that's the case with the other 13 percent as well. They either don't want to get in trouble with their parents or authorities or don't want the stigma attached.

The first culprit is oil.

There is no oil in traditional ejuice or liquid. Every ingredients we use is water soluble. Nicotine in a suspension of PG/VG, alcohol based flavorings, sweetening agents like ethyl maltol Propylene Glycol and Vegetable Glycerine.

The closest thing we have to an oil is vegetable glycerin. But it isn't an oil because its water soluble.

This distinction is important.

One of the most popular easiest and cheapest ways to extract THC is by using oil or butter as a carrier.

THC extracts using this method will not dissolve in regular e-juice or eliquids.

That's why the CDC found high levels of vitamin e acetate and other oils on the lungs of those affected.

Another important distinction to make between traditional e-liquid and the liquid used in these THC cartridges is that our lungs cannot clear these oils.

This is what's causing lipoid pneumonia and in the case of vitamin E acetate, chemical burns to the lungs of the victims. There has also been traces of hydrogen cyanide, likely from pesticides used on the plants, found in these oils

It's helpful to envision these oils as a poultice applied to the lungs. Any chemicals inside are going to have much longer contact with our alveoli and far greater potential for harm than water-based / water soluble liquids.

If you do a Google search on the term "THC vape oil diy" you will find at least a dozen companies offering oils to use as carriers for oil-based THC extracts. Some even have their own proprietary blend.

Not a single one of those products is safe to vape!

This goes for all oil based THC and CBD Vape products.

There are other extraction methods for THC and CBD including steeping in PG/VG and alcohol based tinctures. ...both of which can be used with traditional e-liquids or ejuices.

If you are using a CBD vape product and are unsure contact your local brick and mortar store, your supplier or manufacturer and ask if it's made with an alcohol based tincture.

Those products should be fine provided that the marijuana used is clean and free of pesticides and other chemicals.

WOOT! Data!


So much win! Was he referring to the 87% or the entire group?

sooo many questions I want to ask someone from the CDC

 

[zapped]

WOOT! Data!


So much win! Was he referring to the 87% or the entire group?

sooo many questions I want to ask someone from the CDC

Yes, 87 percent of the entire group.

I'd be willing to bet you that a drug test would reveal 100 percent.

Since a lot of the people affected were minors, I don't see that happening, unfortunately.

 

[bombastinator]

Yes, 87 percent of the entire group.

I'd be willing to bet you that a drug test would reveal 100 percent.

Since a lot of the people affected were minors, I don't see that happening, unfortunately.

Watermelons have evolved from generations of selective breeding. Someone was wise enough to take the best looking watermelon of African descent, post a profile on Ashley Madison, and match it up with the sweetest watermelons of Southern America. Ensure there was enough wine and Berry White playing in the background to strike the right mood, and we now have our current watermelon.

Cannabis is much the same and different strains have been bred together…. Even without the aid of romantic music and consenting adult web sites. But improvements in cultivation and hydroponics also yields a higher THC level.

that would surprise me. Lung ailments happen for lots of reasons. There was a gigantic class action suit against Corning a few years back regarding silicone breast implants. The plaintiffs won and won big. Later they admitted it was a scam. They found anyone with breast implants that had ever gotten sick and used the same argument that is being used now: “I did this and then this happened”. The thing is there are so many people having random problems that that number will never be zero. Do these folks have serious problems? Yes. The question is what is the number of people getting sick compared to the number of people who would have gotten sick anyway?

it’s how many out of 22 million? I don’t know what the actuarial numbers are but it’s not impossible that every one of the remaining 13% could just be statistical backscatter. There could possibly still be that number of people with lung problems and e-cigs has nothing to do with it at all. I don’t know what those numbers are though. This is something that may have already been checked.

silicone breast implants came back by the way.

 

[Zaryk]

After speaking at length with a research chemist from the CDC as well as with Jay Taylor who is a vape shop owner and President of the Virginia Smoke Free Association.... in addition to my own research and extensive knowledge of vaping, I feel confident in saying the recent spate of illnesses and deaths are caused by a number of related factors.

These are the known facts of the case:

Thousands of people have been vaping since 2009 with no reported deaths or other illnesses.

87 percent of the illnesses and deaths reported to the CDC have admitted to using THC vaping products. One subject admitted to lying after interviews with his friends, who were also affected, revealed that he had used THC cartridges.

Im guessing that's the case with the other 13 percent as well. They either don't want to get in trouble with their parents or authorities or don't want the stigma attached.

The first culprit is oil.

There is no oil in traditional ejuice or liquid. Every ingredients we use is water soluble. Nicotine in a suspension of PG/VG, alcohol based flavorings, sweetening agents like ethyl maltol Propylene Glycol and Vegetable Glycerine.

The closest thing we have to an oil is vegetable glycerin. But it isn't an oil because its water soluble.

This distinction is important.

One of the most popular easiest and cheapest ways to extract THC is by using oil or butter as a carrier.

THC extracts using this method will not dissolve in regular e-juice or eliquids.

That's why the CDC found high levels of vitamin e acetate and other oils on the lungs of those affected.

Another important distinction to make between traditional e-liquid and the liquid used in these THC cartridges is that our lungs cannot clear these oils.

This is what's causing lipoid pneumonia and in the case of vitamin E acetate, chemical burns to the lungs of the victims. There has also been traces of hydrogen cyanide, likely from pesticides used on the plants, found in these oils

It's helpful to envision these oils as a poultice applied to the lungs. Any chemicals inside are going to have much longer contact with our alveoli and far greater potential for harm than water-based / water soluble liquids.

If you do a Google search on the term "THC vape oil diy" you will find at least a dozen companies offering oils to use as carriers for oil-based THC extracts. Some even have their own proprietary blend.

Not a single one of those products is safe to vape!

This goes for all oil based THC and CBD Vape products.

There are other extraction methods for THC and CBD including steeping in PG/VG and alcohol based tinctures. ...both of which can be used with traditional e-liquids or ejuices.

If you are using a CBD vape product and are unsure contact your local brick and mortar store, your supplier or manufacturer and ask if it's made with an alcohol based tincture.

Those products should be fine provided that the marijuana used is clean and free of pesticides and other chemicals.

And if they don't know, or can't tell you. Don't use their products until you can find out.

It wasn't oils used in the extraction, but oils used as a thickening agent. This is done to dilute the product and make more profit. Shady production tactics to squeeze every dime out of their stock as humanly possible. This was done mostly by fly by night companies, not the legit labs.

Three Companies Subpoenaed in Weed Vape Illness Investigation