Please remove diacetyl from your liquids!

[JeffTM]

As you may know, diacetyl is an ingredient used in foods to give them a "buttery" flavor. Evidence has shown that some individuals inhaling this chemical on a regular basis (in a work environment) have developed a life threatening and untreatable condition known as Bronchiolitis Obliterans.

Wikipedia - Bronchiolitis Obliterans

Wikipedia - Diacetyl

I was unaware of this potential health hazard until recently. I'm sure that many vapers are unaware of the health risks as well. As a favorite supplier of e-liquids for many vapers, I am very curious to know if you use Diacetyl in any of your liquids. I'm assuming you do since you use FlavourArt, which I believe uses diacetyl. Hopefully I'm wrong.

 

[salemgold]

Hi Jeff. I have just recently stumbled across this info myself. David and Pam are on vacation until Monday but I am sure that they will address your concerns as soon as they return.

I can assure you that they take the utmost care in providing the purest and finest ingredients that are available but I have no idea if they have already taken steps to remove this from the products that they offer.

 

[JeffTM]

Someone quoted a website on an FSUSA e-liquid review forum post and I mistakenly thought the quote was from the FSUSA website when it was in fact from Liberty-Flights. My mistake. I apologize. I would, however, be interested to know if FSUSA also uses diacetyl in their liquids. If they do, then this post applies to them as well.

Update: Edited my original post. Definitely don't want to accuse any supplier of using diacetyl if I don't know the facts.

 

[Chelseafn]

I beleive it does. I cant really remeber for sure but I think all Flavorart has it. Not sure but I thought I read it somewhere. With that said I still dont think with the little bit we are getting is going to do any harm. But Ill wait to see what David says about this. I just ordered Hopscotch too. If its in Flavorart its in Hopscotch. But I love that stuff to much to even worry about it.

 

[Chelseafn]

Want to add its not all the FlavourArt juice just the stuff with the butter flavor and coconut. do a advanced search on this forum there is a lot of info on it. Just type in diacetyl and you will find all kinds of info.

 

[TexasT]

LOL, I should have 90 ml of Butter at the Post Office on Tuesday. I got it to butter up other flavors a little bit.

Well, like I've said before ... at my age I ain't gonna live long enough to die from it anyhow.

Pass the butter please ...

 

[mauisun]

my thoughts on this, like everything else humans consume is, probably everything is bad for us. from the air we breathe to the water we drink. Max, the owner of FlavourART has a phd in biochemistry and is a phenomenol chemist in his own right. He takes the utmost care when creating ingredients for vapers. Actually most of their products do not contain diacetyl. And the ones that do the amounts are trace.
heck vaping in genereal may not be all that excellent for your body but one thing I do know, analog smokes are thousands of times worse for you.

 

[Panini]

my thoughts on this, like everything else humans consume is, probably everything is bad for us. from the air we breathe to the water we drink. Max, the owner of FlavourART has a phd in biochemistry and is a phenomenol chemist in his own right. He takes the utmost care when creating ingredients for vapers. Actually most of their products do not contain diacetyl. And the ones that do the amounts are trace.
heck vaping in genereal may not be all that excellent for your body but one thing I do know, analog smokes are thousands of times worse for you.

While I agree that analog cigarettes are probably worse for us than vaping, I believe diacetyl is something that is worrisome to all of us. The studies I have read state that there is no safe exposure level. I actually emailed you guys to ask what Flavourart flavorings are used in the pre-mixes I like so I could check their website for diacetyl content and was told that none of the ingredients you use contain diacetyl.

I may have been unclear with my question as I know now there are trace amounts in some of the flavors. I still think you guys do a fantastic job. You are one of my favorite suppliers. Is there any chance you would let us know, either here or on your site, which of your pre-mixes or flavor selections contain diacetyl? I realize it is in trace amounts, but since we know it is out there I'd like to have the choice to not inhale it if I don't have to. That doesn't mean I'd stop ordering from you...I just may adjust my selection a bit.

For what it's worth, I think I'd actually order MORE from you if I saw that information made available to us.

 

[jcamacho]

I second this suggestion.

 

[shanagan]

I have to agree with that suggestion, also.

I understand the position that vaping is better than analogs - but if you look at this from a harm reduction standpoint (and many of us do) bronchiolitis obliterans is not an acceptable possible alternative. Seriously, google it. It's no joke. I realize I sound a little alarmist here, but if exposure during the popcorn manufacturing process caused health issues, none of us can say for sure what the safe levels of direct inhalation - and in our case exhalation - of diacetyl might be.

I mean, love y'all's stuff, but I love my lungs and my family more - that's exactly why I do not smoke any longer.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

I understand that everyone has to elvaluate their own choices, but lets not go overboard.(not targeting any specific posts, just generally saying) Lets put this in perspective. We all took our chances when we smoked analogs. But we all were addicted(thanks to the cig companies to assure we would keep coming back) to a very real and unhealthy hazard to ouselves and everyone around us. How many additives do analogs contain--4 to 5 thousand different chemicals? I for one am thrilled to have found not only ecigs, but the companies making the juice.
In the studies that are out there, I don't recall seeing how many workers were actually effected. Are they saying that every worker has become ill? 1 in a thousand? 1 in a million? I did not see it, so if anyone can tell me....
I did look at Flavourart website and read what they had to say about diacetyl. It did not alarm me. Heck, like a previous poster said...we are all going to pass on from something someday...might as well enjoy ourselves. Isn't that one of the justifications we used with analogs? So this is not much different. We are all addicted.
Just my 2pennies.
wv

 

[SimpleSins]

Well, the difference is that we chose to stop smoking in the hopes of improving our health. It seems to me using a chemical that is known to cause even worse pulmonary problems than we may have had to begin with is cause for concern, and something that does deserve merit. Going blind in one eye is better than going blind in both, but that doesn't make a good thing thing. And, frankly, it's that cavalier attitude about the ingredients which gives the FDA the opening they need to step in and protect us since we apparently are unwilling to do it ourselves.

 

[Panini]

Heck, like a previous poster said...we are all going to pass on from something someday...might as well enjoy ourselves. Isn't that one of the justifications we used with analogs? So this is not much different. We are all addicted.
wv

With all due respect, I am only 30 years old. I have a young child and hope to have another. My reason for stopping with the analogs was for my own health and the health of my family. I never used the "something will kill me someday" justification when I smoked. I realized it was a bad habit and that I should probably stop...until I found e-cigs I didn't know how.

When I switched to e-cigs, I swore I would do my research every step of the way. If I hadn't come across the myriad of studies on the low risk presented by the vapor, I would have never felt comfortable enough to try them. As far as flavorings go, I believe diacetyl does pose a serious risk, even in small quantities. If I can choose to inhale it, or not inhale it, I will choose not to inhale it.

Likewise, I don't feel comfortable promoting something to people I care about if it contains an ingredient known to lead to an irreversible, deadly lung condition.

What I want is the choice. Why is that wrong?

 

[Sewnmachine]

Dear God - I just googled it, and it really sounds bad. I agree with a previous poster, I would appreciate having the choice to buy juice that did not include this nasty stuff. And it just figures........ Hopscotch, Caramel, Almond Joy are my total favorites. I would be willing to bet that this ingredient is included in those flavors. Well.......it might be back to the menthols for me.

 

[jcamacho]

Thats it for me also unless I hear otherwise and that ingredient is removed.

 

[GiMante]

I agree, this is scary.....

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Sorry if you think I approached this subject lightly. I am not saying 'don't pay attention to additivies or what you put into your bodies. I do think that ingredents should be listed on all products. I read labels. I am just as concerned as the next person. What I am saying is the cigarettes we all wanted to quit had much more potential to harm us (pick any one of the 5 thousand you want to choose to research). And until ecigs we failed at quitting them. I smoked analogs for 40 years, so maybe the age difference has changed my way of looking at this problem. We all knew the risks but did it anyway.

I think the fda and the tobacco companies have much more of a cavalier attitude than I do. They do everything in their power to keep us right there smoking analogs so they can either get rich or get more taxes. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't need or want anyone to protect me. Its like slapping one in the face while patting you on the back. But that is really another discussion. All I meant to say is that I hope that no one is going off the deep end without proof that a real problem exists. Studies can be doctored to say whatever they want and is subjective. That is why I asked the question of how many people were studied? Did all of the workers at the plant get sick? Is everyone that comes within inhalation of the chemical going to be sick? Don't let the scare mongers color your thinking.

Panini,
None of us "knew how" to get away from the added chemicals the tobacco companies purposely put in the analogs to keep you smoking. But both they and the fda know for a fact that it is there. They just want a way to extort money legally from us. We all know it is true. Everything always come down to the good ole dollar when it comes to big business and govt. I am sorry if you thought I didn't want the ingredients listed on any product we use. Of course there is nothing wrong with having a choice. That is what makes our country different from the rest of the world. The right to choose. Please do your research and make up your mind which companies you want to frequent.
Anyway, I've gotten too much ot and I will apologize in advance for that.

wv

 

[Redbone]

my thoughts on this, like everything else humans consume is, probably everything is bad for us. from the air we breathe to the water we drink. Max, the owner of FlavourART has a phd in biochemistry and is a phenomenol chemist in his own right. He takes the utmost care when creating ingredients for vapers. Actually most of their products do not contain diacetyl. And the ones that do the amounts are trace.
heck vaping in genereal may not be all that excellent for your body but one thing I do know, analog smokes are thousands of times worse for you.

Actually, the 'butter' flavor from FlavourArt has a pretty hefty amount of Diacetyl (1.5%) compared to their other flavors that contain the chemical.

Diacetile - Flavourart. La sartoria degli aromi

According to your website description of 'Butter', it contains "Pure FlavourArt Flavoring".

And, there is also a disclaimer on the FlavorArt site that states:

Disclaimer: We produce and sell FOOD FLAVORS which comply with Italian and EU legislation and EFSA reccomendation. They are safe for FOOD use as they are intended to enter the body by the digestive system, not by lungs.


Does not offer very much confidence.

 

[Whistle_Pig]

I believe diacetyl is something that is worrisome to all of us. The studies I have read state that there is no safe exposure level.

I'm not worried about it. And if there were no safe exposure level, homebrewers would be dropping like flies. Any "study" that says there is no safe exposure level is very likely engaging in hype and bad science. After all, there's a lot more money and publicity involved in that than there is in hard facts.

 

[Jeseryn]

I'm worried about it. I'd love a list of flavors don't include it. Such as butterscotch almond (my fav).