Potential Kentucky Ban - Help with an E-mail.

Status
Not open for further replies.

sherid

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
May 25, 2008
2,266
493
USA
It is always about the money, and the money trail always goes back to the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation and the link to drug companies. It is that way with ASH, and it is also true of Ellen Hahn, the Kentucky nanny.
Hahn was awarded a fellowship from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation Developing Leadership in Reducing Substance Abuse Program (2000-2003). The fellowship was used to enhance her tobacco policy research skills. Hahn and colleagues have studied Kentucky legislators’ views on tobacco (American Journal of Preventive Medicine, February 1999; tobacco Control, Summer 1999); the fit between public opinion and legislators’ views on tobacco (Journal of the Kentucky Medical Association, February 2000); regional differences in legislators' views on tobacco policy (Southern Medical Journal, 2002); and predictors of voting on tobacco control legislation in Kentucky. Hahn is the program evaluator for the Kentucky Tobacco Use Prevention and Cessation Program funded by the Centers for Disease Control. In collaboration with the state program, she also has completed a study of smoking cessation in drug treatment facilities in Kentucky (Journal of Addictive Diseases, December 1999).
Faculty Profile: Ellen Hahn
Note, especially "Hahn was awarded a fellowship from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation"
 

sherid

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
May 25, 2008
2,266
493
USA
Rooks -

Sherid's suggestion is a good one. IMHO, send them your information. Hahn has made her decision and will most likely not change her position. However, The Bluegrass Institute will be more likely to hear what you have to say.

Every eSmoker in KY should probably start writing letters to this group. Not only do they have the willingness to listen, but they have the ability (money) to get the eSmokers message out.

Here is a video from their website of which this is about: The freedom of choice for Americans ie Consumers.

YouTube - The Bluegrass Institute

EDIT for SheriD - Is there a group like this in California?
I will look, but CA is less likely than KY because of its regressive (not progressive since the word is Newspeak in the anti-smoking world of 1984) policies against pleasure. Also, KY is a tobacco state, while CA is a nanny state.
 

LaceyUnderall

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Dec 4, 2008
2,568
5
USA and Canada
I will look, but CA is less likely than KY because of its regressive (not progressive since the word is Newspeak in the anti-smoking world of 1984) policies against pleasure. Also, KY is a tobacco state, while CA is a nanny state.

what about Mission, Vision & Values ?

Sorry to take this thread off topic to California and maybe SheriD, we can meet up in the CA thread and discuss if you find anything worth noting?!?
 

sherid

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
May 25, 2008
2,266
493
USA
Sheri -

I started this thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/campaigning/36757-organizations-ability-listen.html

Would you mind posting your finds there? Also, I noted the Buckeye organization that you might know more about... About the Buckeye Institute - The Buckeye Institute

Here is their stance of smoking bans, "Meanwhile, the conservative Buckeye Institute is suing the state, saying Ohio is too strictly enforcing the statewide smoking ban that voters approved in 2006."

So, yes, they would definitely be a great group to back this. As some of us have said for a long time now, you cannot distance yourself from the smokers because the issue is exactly the same. I am disgusted every time I hear someone on here resort to the language of the anti-smokers when they refer to smoking and smokers. Ironically, nearly everyone who posts this garbage was himself a smoker a week or couple of months ago. Anyone writing to any of these groups should not write at all if they are going to use a sense of superiority over smokers. These groups back freedom from bans. They see any ban as encroaching.
 

RooksGambit

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Aug 13, 2009
123
2
Lexington, Kentucky
Allright, I'm glad I haven't sent anything yet. You guys are seriously helping me make this a comprehensive statement more than a personal plea to someone who likely won't listen. Nole1028 and I are going to try and attend Citizen's Night Out here in Lexington and bend the ear of our Mayor.

I plan on bringing as much documentation as possible. Seriously folks, it's really nice to come in asking for a little help and discover an entire support network! You guys are all awesome, never let anyone tell you otherwise.

-Rook
 

RooksGambit

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Aug 13, 2009
123
2
Lexington, Kentucky
Guys, wow!

You all have been so very helpful. Here is my final draft before sending to Prof. Ellen Hahn. Is there anything I should omit, anything I should add? Have I made it a little too emotional, or aggressive? Any and all opinions welcome. I want to come across effectively, so that any response she gives is going to have to be thorough in its justifications. Here goes: [Edit: I have revised it a little bit more]

"Hello Professor Hahn,

I am writing to you in regards to a news piece that I read in which you stated you had some serious concerns about the electronic cigarette, and intended to pursue the banning of the sale of the devices in Kentucky, much as Oregon has. I am not a supplier, a manufacturer or distributor of these products. I'm just a guy that lives here in Lexington, I'm a server at a local restaurant, and I was a smoker for 14 years. I'm only 28. Until recently that scared me. I knew it was killing me. Then I found these products. I am not someone who easily has the wool pulled over their eyes. When I discovered these products, I researched them for several weeks. I saw the FDA report, but I am also not someone who takes one side of a story for truth, even if it is a trusted Government organization. There are always three sides to a story. What "he" said, what "she" said and what really happened.

After my research, I finally decided to purchase one of these devices. I initially bought it so that I could sneak a bit of nicotine at work without needing to go outside, and potentially missing the needs of a customer and losing a tip. To my surprise, I left an unopened pack of cigarettes on my coffee table for over a week, because I really just didn't need one. I haven't smoked tobacco in 25 days now. I breath better, my lungs do not rasp when I lay down to go to sleep. My sense of taste and smell are improving. I can smell my co-workers when they come in from smoking, and I realized that used to be me. I tried to smoke an "analog" (the humorous term "vapers", or electronic cigarette users coined for traditional tobacco cigarettes), and I found it to be downright disgusting.

If this product is taken off the market, I and several others whom have been turned on to "vaping" will be practically forced back to tobacco cigarettes. Since the FDA found trace amounts of DEG in one cartridge out of the 18 they tested, several suppliers of "e-liquid" (the nicotine, propylene glycol, water and flavoring solution used in personal vaporizers/ e-cigarettes), most notably Johnson's Creek, have taken it upon themselves to have their products tested for purity. The FDA also failed to release in any statements that no traces of DEG were found in the resultant vapor produced by these devices. If I am not mistaken, the vaporization of DEG occurs at around 90 degrees (f), while the typical atomizer found in these devices only reach temperatures of 45-60 degrees (f).

As to the Nicotine Specific Nitrosamines which were found, they are of similar quantities of those found in FDA approved Nicotine Replacement Therapies (NRT's) such as nicotine gums, patches, and inhalers. I have noticed of late that since this has been pointed out the "copy and paste" press releases talking about the FDA research have neglected to mention these nitrosamines. These are the only two concerns that are brought up as regards the "dangers" of electronic cigarettes, and a minute amount of research quickly brings one to the realization that the FDA was either 1) negligent in their duties, or 2) deliberately disingenuous with their testinig. Neither of these prospects is comforting to me.

Of course, the FDA does receive a large portion of its funding from Pfizer, another piece of information that is rather easy to come by should you bother to poke around enough. And with news items like this this article quoting from an Associated Press release in which FDA scientists were coerced and intimidated to push through approval of medical devices which had questionable use, it would not surprise me in the least to find that they had purposefully done lack luster work on the electronic cigarette under duress from one of their financial supporters.

I would like to provide you with some links to other information I have found through research and extensive help from other "vapers".

Johnson's Creek Smoke Juice - One of the companies which has hired an independent research and analysis firm to test their liquids.

Johnson's Creek "Smoke Juice" testing by Alliance Technologies - The results of the analysis of Johnson's Creek "Smoke Juice"

The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary - A blog by Michael Siegel, a physician who works in the Social and Behavioral Sciences Department at the Boston University School of Public Health.

FDA Smoke Screen on E-cigarettes - A Washington Times article by Dr. Elizabeth Whelan, President of the American Council on Science and Health

Three Professors of Medicine speak out against ASH claims - An article about the disingenuous nature of the organization Action on Smoking and Health (ASH), the loudest proponent on the banning of electronic cigarettes.

Letter from the AAPHP to the FDA director - This letter urges the FDA to divulge all of its information regarding the data in they testing of e-cigarettes, and proposes a sensible way for the products to be regulated.

University of Auckland Study on the Effects of E-cigarettes on Cravings and Withdrawal - This study finds that e-cigarettes have legitimate potential as cessation aids.

Professor Hahn, I do not wish to deluge you with an over-abundance of information, but I feel that having the information easily available to you will cause you to be more likely to look into it. I do not believe that with your pursuit of the banning of e-cigarettes that you are being deliberately obtuse. I sincerely believe you are just being taken in by the propaganda of persons, organizations and corporations who's pocket-books are threatened by a reduction in the use of tobacco, and therefore: tobacco tax revenue.

You are supposed to be someone who looks out for the public when it comes to issues of health, and to reduce the harm done by tobacco products. From the information that is available online and from many health organizations and medical professionals, not to mention my own personal experience, you are moving opposite to that directive. Myself, my brother, my father, several friend and co-workers, have all significantly reduced or halted the use of tobacco products all together because of these literally life-saving devices. That is only within my own personal circle of aquaintances. How many others say the same? As far as I can tell? Possibly 100,000 in the US alone. 100,000 lives Professor Hahn. And this is a new and not well known product.

If these devices were taken off the market, myself, my friends and my family would have no choice but to go back to tobacco products, or attempt, once again to use an "approved" NRT, all of which have abysmal success rates for quitting. They also fail to address the physiological and behavioral conditioning of being a smoker. My family and friends have all tried them, and they have either not worked, or have led to extremely short-lived success. The failure rate of the available NRT's is readily available to a quick online search. Take a look at Chantix, the most "successful" of the approved NRT's. It has been involved in 70+ deaths, 28 of which are suicides. Is a drug that could potentially change my psychological underpinnings to the point of voluntarily killing myself really a better alternative? Would you really recommend that I stick with traditional tobacco, which the same health professionals who are decrying the personal vaporizer have already proven to be highly deadly? The electronic cigarettes worked. The first day, at least for myself and those I know. Plain and simple. I don't want to be a smoker again, nor do those that I care about. I am pleading with you to not help in forcing us back into that life-threatening habbit.

Sincerely,
Sean Howard - average guy in Lexington."



The links are, of course, active in the email, and are collected from the sources all of you provided. I will be sending something similar, though in a different tone, to Jim Waters and his people in hopes that it's a cause they would be willing to take up.

Thanks guys!
-Rook
 
Last edited:

yvilla

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 18, 2008
2,063
575
Rochester, NY
Rook, very nice, but I do have one suggestion. I'm pretty sure your atomizer temperatures (and maybe the DEG vaporization too) are way off. Maybe it would be better to leave that sentence out altogether, or at least make sure of your facts so you are not presenting something that can easily be debunked.
 

RooksGambit

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Aug 13, 2009
123
2
Lexington, Kentucky
Rook, very nice, but I do have one suggestion. I'm pretty sure your atomizer temperatures (and maybe the DEG vaporization too) are way off. Maybe it would be better to leave that sentence out altogether, or at least make sure of your facts so you are not presenting something that can easily be debunked.

On another read through, that's a good point. I'm also being a bit on the confrontational side. If there's any possibility that she might actually be swayed, or that my correspondance might come be scrutinized by other parties, I don't want to be overly aggressive. I'm going to take the advice of a new poster going by skoster. He makes a lot of sense.

-Rook
 
On another read through, that's a good point. I'm also being a bit on the confrontational side. If there's any possibility that she might actually be swayed, or that my correspondance might come be scrutinized by other parties, I don't want to be overly aggressive. I'm going to take the advice of a new poster going by skoster. He makes a lot of sense.

-Rook

Great job Rook! Even Saul was able to be persuaded otherwise.
I am also sending e-mails to friends at the Lexington Herald and local Fox network. I am hoping for even a small amount of air time on this issue locally.
We'll see how it goes.
 

LaceyUnderall

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Dec 4, 2008
2,568
5
USA and Canada
Great job Rook! Even Saul was able to be persuaded otherwise.
I am also sending e-mails to friends at the Lexington Herald and local Fox network. I am hoping for even a small amount of air time on this issue locally.
We'll see how it goes.

Nole - Did you see the group Reclaiming Liberty! :: Bluegrass Institute for Public Policy Solutions They would be excellent to contact and maybe you and Rooks could work together on a presentation for them.

THEY are perfect to carry your voice to a higher level. I started a thread in the campaigning section: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/organizations-ability-listen/36767-kentucky.html Please feel free to use it for discussion if you two decide to move forward on that. It MIGHT bring other fellow Kentuckians into your midst and help you get a real campaign started there.
 

Vocalek

CASAA Activist
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
I posted the abstract here http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/campaigning/36756-campaigning.html

for "Estimating the health consequences of replacing cigarettes with nicotine inhalers" published in the journal Tobacco Control in 2003.


"CONCLUSIONS: Clean nicotine inhalers might improve public health as much as any feasible tobacco control effort. Although the relevant risk estimates are somewhat uncertain, partial nicotine deregulation deserves consideration as part of a broad tobacco control policy."
 

RooksGambit

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Aug 13, 2009
123
2
Lexington, Kentucky
Did some final editing, and cut out the confrontational tone from the e-mail, and sent it out seconds ago. Here's what I finally ended up sending:

Hello Professor Hahn,

I am writing to you in regards to a news piece that I read in which you stated you had some serious concerns about the electronic cigarette, and intended to pursue the banning of the sale of the devices in Kentucky, much as Oregon has. I am not a supplier, a manufacturer or distributor of these products. I'm just a guy that lives here in Lexington, I'm a server at a local restaurant, and I was a smoker for 14 years. I'm only 28. Until recently that scared me. I knew it was killing me. Then I found these products. I am not someone who easily has the wool pulled over their eyes. When I discovered these products, I researched them for several weeks. I saw the FDA report, but I am also not someone who takes one side of a story for truth, even if it is a trusted Government organization. There are always three sides to a story. What "he" said, what "she" said and what really happened.

After my research, I finally decided to purchase one of these devices. I initially bought it so that I could sneak a bit of nicotine at work without needing to go outside, and potentially missing the needs of a customer and losing a tip. To my surprise, I left an unopened pack of cigarettes on my coffee table for over a week, because I really just didn't need one. I haven't smoked tobacco in 25 days now. I breath better, my lungs do not rasp when I lay down to go to sleep. My sense of taste and smell are improving. I can smell my co-workers when they come in from smoking, and I realized that used to be me. I tried to smoke an "analog" (the humorous term "vapers", or electronic cigarette users coined for traditional tobacco cigarettes), and I found it to be downright disgusting.

If this product is taken off the market, I and several others whom have been turned on to "vaping" will be practically forced back to tobacco cigarettes. Since the FDA found trace amounts of DEG in one cartridge out of the 18 they tested, several suppliers of "e-liquid" (the nicotine, propylene glycol, water and flavoring solution used in personal vaporizers/ e-cigarettes), most notably Johnson's Creek, have taken it upon themselves to have their products tested for purity. The FDA also failed to release in any statements that no traces of DEG were found in the resultant vapor produced by these devices.

As to the Nicotine Specific Nitrosamines which were found, they are of similar quantities of those found in FDA approved Nicotine Replacement Therapies (NRT's) such as nicotine gums, patches, and inhalers. I have noticed of late that since this has been pointed out the "copy and paste" press releases talking about the FDA research have neglected to mention these nitrosamines. These are the only two concerns that are brought up as regards the "dangers" of electronic cigarettes, and a minute amount of research quickly brings one to the realization that the FDA was either 1) negligent in their duties, or 2) deliberately disingenuous with their testinig. Neither of these prospects is comforting to me.

Of course, the FDA does receive a large portion of its funding from Pfizer, another piece of information that is rather easy to come by should you bother to poke around enough. And with news items like this this article quoting from an Associated Press release in which FDA scientists were coerced and intimidated to push through approval of medical devices which had questionable use, it would not surprise me in the least to find that they had purposefully done lack luster work on the electronic cigarette under duress from one of their financial supporters.

I would like to provide you with some links to other information I have found through research and extensive help from other "vapers".

Johnson's Creek Smoke Juice - One of the companies which has hired an independent research and analysis firm to test their liquids.

Johnson's Creek "Smoke Juice" testing by Alliance Technologies - The results of the analysis of Johnson's Creek "Smoke Juice"

The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary - A blog by Michael Siegel, a physician who works in the Social and Behavioral Sciences Department at the Boston University School of Public Health.

FDA Smoke Screen on E-cigarettes - A Washington Times article by Dr. Elizabeth Whelan, President of the American Council on Science and Health

Three Professors of Medicine speak out against ASH claims - An article about the disingenuous nature of the organization Action on Smoking and Health (ASH), the loudest proponent on the banning of electronic cigarettes.

Letter from the AAPHP to the FDA director - This letter urges the FDA to divulge all of its information regarding the data in they testing of e-cigarettes, and proposes a sensible way for the products to be regulated.

University of Auckland Study on the Effects of E-cigarettes on Cravings and Withdrawal - This study finds that e-cigarettes have legitimate potential as cessation aids.

Professor Hahn, I do not wish to deluge you with an over-abundance of information, but I feel that having the information easily available to you will cause you to be more likely to look into it. I believe that with your pursuit of the banning of e-cigarettes that you have the best interests of the public at heart. I sincerely believe you are just being taken in by the propaganda of persons, organizations and corporations who's pocket-books are threatened by a reduction in the use of tobacco, and therefore: tobacco tax revenue. As well as companies who spent a lot of money to bring their NRT's to the market, most of which do not work, statistically speaking.

An article published in the Journal of Tobacco Control suggests that an effective nicotine inhalation device might be promising in tobacco harm reduction.

"Tob Control. 2003 Jun;12(2):124-32.

Estimating the health consequences of replacing cigarettes with nicotine inhalers.Sumner W 2nd.
Department of Medicine, Division of General Medical Sciences, Box 8005, 660 South Euclid Avenue, St Louis, MO 63110, USA. wsumner@im.wustl.edu

BACKGROUND: A fast acting, clean nicotine delivery system might substantially displace cigarettes. Public health consequences would depend on the subsequent prevalence of nicotine use, hazards of delivery systems, and intrinsic hazards of nicotine. METHODS: A spreadsheet program, DEMANDS, estimates differences in expected mortality, adjusted for nicotine delivery system features and prevalence of nicotine use, by extending the data and methods of the SAMMEC 3 software from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The user estimates disease risks attributable to nicotine, other smoke components, and risk factors that coexist with smoking. The public health consequences of a widely used clean nicotine inhaler replacing cigarettes were compared to historical observations and public health goals, using four different risk attribution scenarios and nicotine use prevalence from 0-100%.

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Changes in years of potential life before age 85 (YPL85). RESULTS: If nicotine accounts for less than a third of smokers' excess risk of SAMMEC diseases, as it most likely does, then even with very widespread use of clean nicotine DEMANDS predicts public health gains, relative to current tobacco use. Public health benefits accruing from a widely used clean nicotine inhaler probably equal or exceed the benefits of achieving Healthy People 2010 goals.

CONCLUSIONS: Clean nicotine inhalers might improve public health as much as any feasible tobacco control effort. Although the relevant risk estimates are somewhat uncertain, partial nicotine deregulation deserves consideration as part of a broad tobacco control policy."

Your stated purpose is to look out for the public when it comes to issues of health, and to reduce the harm done by tobacco products. From the information that is available online and from many health organizations and medical professionals, not to mention my own personal experience, it appears that you may be moving opposite to that directive. Myself, my brother, my father, several friend and co-workers, have all significantly reduced or halted the use of tobacco products all together because of these literally life-saving devices. That is only within my own personal circle of aquaintances. There have supposedly been one million e-cigarette kits sold in the US. Taking into account replacement part and repeat purchases, a very conservative estimate based on those sales of those who have started using personal vaporizers to reduce or supplant their tobacco habit could be 100,000 or more in the US alone. 100,000 lives Professor Hahn, possibly greatly extended because of this new and little-known product!

If these devices were taken off the market, myself, my friends and my family would have no choice but to go back to tobacco products, or attempt, once again to use an "approved" NRT, all of which have abysmal success rates for quitting. They also fail to address the physiological and behavioral conditioning of being a smoker. Many of my family and friends have all tried them, and they have either not worked, or have led to extremely short-lived success. The high failure rate of the available NRTs is readily available to a quick online search.

Some apparently do work, but not without their dangers. Chantix, the most "successful" of the approved NRT's, has been involved in 70+ deaths, 28 of which are suicides. I would rather take my chances with the extremely minute amounts of tobacco specific nitrosamines than with a drug that could potentially change my psychological underpinnings to the point that intentionally killing myself becomes a good idea. What scares me, and my circle of friends and family, is that the removal of these products from the market will force us back into being tobacco dependent. I do not want to be a smoker again, it was killing me.

I recognize that you are a public health professional, so I am presenting to you what I, a regular citizen have found in my research as regards electronic cigarettes/personal vaporizers. I am willing to listen to good reasoning as to why these products are not a good or effective alternative to smoking for me and many others. Not a cessation product, but an alternative to tobacco. Is there something I am missing? All the data I can find suggests they are far less damaging (if at all) to my body than smoking tobacco, which is the alternative I will be left with if these devices are taken off the market. Would I be better off sticking with the tobacco, which is a better known quantity? I'm a bit confused and concerned about the whole issue, and really looking for guidance here. I look forward to your response, Professor. Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,
Sean Howard - average guy in Lexington."

I did my best to leave the ball in her court, and gave an opportunity to legitimately explain and justify her position. That's all I can do. I really can't wait for a response, I hope I get one.

-Rook
 

yvilla

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 18, 2008
2,063
575
Rochester, NY
On another read through, that's a good point. I'm also being a bit on the confrontational side. If there's any possibility that she might actually be swayed, or that my correspondance might come be scrutinized by other parties, I don't want to be overly aggressive. I'm going to take the advice of a new poster going by skoster. He makes a lot of sense.

-Rook

Oh, please don't go too far with the changes! I didn't think you were being too confrontational, especially in light of the individual you are dealing with. :)

Edit: Did not see your second posting before writing this, sorry. It looks great to me.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread