Thanks, Storyspinr. I'll be waiting to hear. I'm also surprised at the new hysteria about nicotine vs. second-hand smoke & carcinogens. Perhaps I'm overly cynical, but the lack of information on their part, IMO, reflects an anti-smoker bigotry rather than simply a sincere concern for everyone's health. Oh well. Thanks again.
Report from Speaker's office on Va. E cig ban
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I should think a court "battle" would be pretty straight forward. Simply take your pv to the courthouse. When they call your case on the docket, show your "e-cig; pv; personal inhaler' or whatever you want to call it to the judge. Also, hand him or her the text of the VA legislation. Any idiot can see your device does not fall under the definition of "cigarette" contained in the ban.
The most you have to lose is a day from work and $25--if the ruling goes against you. A scenario I personally cannot imagine!
The most you have to lose is a day from work and $25--if the ruling goes against you. A scenario I personally cannot imagine!
Pipedream, I guess the problem is that bans don't affect most of them. They don't smoke, so they don't really care. They hear the propaganda on TV, but don't pay close attention and certainly don't do any research. It is amazing the reaction I get from legislators and/or their aides when I present the actual evidence (the studies themselves) on secondhand smoke. Their reaction is always "Why haven't I heard this before?" The answer, of course, is because the media only reports one side of the story. We're seeing some of that with regard to e cigs, when the media is happy to parrot the FDA report without bothering to check the facts themselves. True journalism is becoming nearly extinct.
Oldlady, it may indeed end up in court. It only takes one person who gets a ticket to fight it, and hope the judge rules there was no violation. I remember when the e cig was first getting a lot of attention on local Virginia TV stations, Kaine was asked about them and his response was "It will probably end up in the Virginia Supreme Court". I hope we don't have to go that far, but........
Oldlady, it may indeed end up in court. It only takes one person who gets a ticket to fight it, and hope the judge rules there was no violation. I remember when the e cig was first getting a lot of attention on local Virginia TV stations, Kaine was asked about them and his response was "It will probably end up in the Virginia Supreme Court". I hope we don't have to go that far, but........
there are a few things that really bother about this . . . first is how most all the reports i've seen on tv about e-ciggs make them seem like just a "gimmick". . . second, even now that i am an ex-smoker, is the fact that VIRGINIA actually passed a smoking ban! Smoking analogues isn't for me anymore . . but JC! tobacco is an important part of our history. It's taking away people's freedom of choice (to a certain extent). Third . . just about the same as the first. People hear "smoking alternative" and just pass it off as a joke. I've had so many people ask me "why don't you just quit?" . . and my answer is always the same . . "because i enjoy smoking". tobacco is BAD for you, and maybe with more in-depth study could be shown that e-smoking is also bad for you . . . but even then, it is MY choice. The idea that i could only be left with the choice of analogs is ridiculous.
gsc, you nailed it. If a restaurant allows smoking, nonsmokers can take their business elsewhere. If a restaurant is smokefree, smokers can go elsewhere. It's called the free market.
There was a great deal of resistance in Virginia, which is why there are exemptions for smoking rooms. The "smokefreelyva.com" website (I think that's the name) lists restaurants throughout Virginia with smoking rooms, where no doubt e cigs are also welcomed...until we can hopefully get this mess straightened out.
There was a great deal of resistance in Virginia, which is why there are exemptions for smoking rooms. The "smokefreelyva.com" website (I think that's the name) lists restaurants throughout Virginia with smoking rooms, where no doubt e cigs are also welcomed...until we can hopefully get this mess straightened out.
This.
Makes no sense to me. If I want to open a restaraunt called "Cigars and Steaks" I should be able to. This has even crept into Sin City. The local hookah bars have to advertise themselves as "Herbal" and it forces them to walk on a thin line.
It gives me hope though, that a lot of Bar and Grills have said "Hell with it, people can smoke in here" and I think it makes a stand and proves that it is awful hard to enforce.
Many casinos have made "Smoke Free" sections for slot/poker machine players and it seems to work out really well.
If a business wants to cater to smokers or non-smokers they should be able to, it makes about as much sense as saying "I'm a Vegan, and I'm offended that I can't go to Outback without watching people eat cow flesh"
Wafflestomper, there is hope. According to an article in the New York Times, there is a whole lot of smokin' goin' on in bars throughout NYC - despite the best efforts of Bloomberg. Bad laws get ignored, as was the case with alcohol prohibition in the 1920s.
Virginia's ban has a very low fine ($25 or less), and there are a number of restaurants with a "smoke at your own risk" policy.
As for the e cig, I suspect at some point it will end up in a court somewhere, whether Virginia or elsewhere. If it does, that will set precedent for every other state, so we have to hope when - if - that day comes, things will go our way.
Virginia's ban has a very low fine ($25 or less), and there are a number of restaurants with a "smoke at your own risk" policy.
As for the e cig, I suspect at some point it will end up in a court somewhere, whether Virginia or elsewhere. If it does, that will set precedent for every other state, so we have to hope when - if - that day comes, things will go our way.
Possible response to "why don't you just quit?"
Me: Excuse me? I have quit. I no longer inhale smoke.
Them: But you're still using nicotine. Isn't nicotine bad for you?
Me: NO, nicotine doesn't cause any of the smoking-related diseases. It's the smoke that causes those diseases.
Them: But nicotine is addictive.
Me: So what!
Them: *Gasp* What do you mean? Doesn't it bother you that you are a slave to a chemical?
Me: No. What bothered me was wheezing and coughing, and being borderline hypertensive. Now I have my physical health back. A bonus is that I'm not gaining weight the way people do when they quit by giving up nicotine. By avoiding weight gain I am also avoiding developing high blood pressure and diabetes. Nothing wrong with that!
Them: Um, I have to go now. Good luck with that quitting thing.
Haha
. . well thats how the non-smokers usually walk away from me. All my smoking co-workers, to my surprise, have been intrigued with my PV. As soon as i tell them i went from 1&1/2 packs a day down to 2-3cigs on the first day then to none within a week . . . That "humorous" smile they all had quickly turned into one of those contemplative smirks and the questions came flooding in 
And one thing i want to "make clear", i guess, about my stance on the e-cigs falling into the ban (because its a bit hard to tell exactly what part of it some people here are against). I actually have no problem with PVs being banned anywhere cigarettes are banned. Realistically, it is mimicking smoking.. i don't think we can deny that. My problem is that they are classifying them as cigarettes, and don't acknowledge the difference between PVs and cigarettes and mislead the public. As long as I can walk down the street and vape or they don't actually outlaw them all together, i guess i'm ok.
Do have a question though. How about private "clubs" like Moose lodges? . . couldn't someone have a Vape Lodge, charge membership and get around all this? I had to go to a couple of lodges when i was on the dart team at my bar and we had to order drinks through official members due to some ABC / liquor license thing i wasn't really clear on other than the fact that we couldn't actually pay for it ourselves.
A friend of mine who smokes, but is aware of e-cigs (mostly due to my bf and I using them at poker tournaments) told us of something he heard on the radio.
He said electronic cigarettes are no longer included in the ban according to what he heard.
I emailed the radio station that ran this information and received the following response:
RE: Heard on the radio
Monday, January 11, 2010 9:10 AM
From:
"Doran, Joe (CXR-Richmond)" <Joe.Doran@CoxRadio.com>
To:
"Giles, Sam (CXR-Richmond)" <Sam.Giles@CoxRadio.com>
Yeah, this is running on KLR. The company is No Smoke Virginia and
their website is nosmokeva.com. His brand of E Cigs are cleared to
use/compliant with the smoking ban in Virginia.
Joe Doran
Creative Manager
Cox Radio-Richmond
WKHK WKLR WMXB WDYL
804-327-9639
-----Original Message-----
From: Giles, Sam (CXR-Richmond)
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 4:16 PM
To: Doran, Joe (CXR-Richmond)
Subject: FW: Heard on the radio
I haven't heard the ad. Is this KLR?
I spoke with the owner of nosmokeva and he stated that they have recinded the inclusion of the ecig in the ban and he was contacted by the radio station and informed of this.
The Dept of Health still has not changed their FAQ page regarding e-cigs so I'm still waiting on confirmation.
Have any of you that have been in contact with state officals received this update?
He said electronic cigarettes are no longer included in the ban according to what he heard.
I emailed the radio station that ran this information and received the following response:
RE: Heard on the radio
Monday, January 11, 2010 9:10 AM
From:
"Doran, Joe (CXR-Richmond)" <Joe.Doran@CoxRadio.com>
To:
"Giles, Sam (CXR-Richmond)" <Sam.Giles@CoxRadio.com>
Yeah, this is running on KLR. The company is No Smoke Virginia and
their website is nosmokeva.com. His brand of E Cigs are cleared to
use/compliant with the smoking ban in Virginia.
Joe Doran
Creative Manager
Cox Radio-Richmond
WKHK WKLR WMXB WDYL
804-327-9639
-----Original Message-----
From: Giles, Sam (CXR-Richmond)
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 4:16 PM
To: Doran, Joe (CXR-Richmond)
Subject: FW: Heard on the radio
I haven't heard the ad. Is this KLR?
I spoke with the owner of nosmokeva and he stated that they have recinded the inclusion of the ecig in the ban and he was contacted by the radio station and informed of this.
The Dept of Health still has not changed their FAQ page regarding e-cigs so I'm still waiting on confirmation.
Have any of you that have been in contact with state officals received this update?
Unfortunately, the real answer is because the politicians (and other authority figures, including media) rely on others for their information, rather than doing the research themselves and making conclusions for themselves. They accept what the others say (like the anti's) as fact and don't research to see if it truly is fact, or even if it is the whole story. Media simply no longer does any research - just echos what they are told.
JMHO
-bogie
I just spoke to Gary Hagy with the Virginia Department of Health and the ban on e cigs has NOT been lifted; it is still in effect. I would strongly suggest ALL of you in Virginia call your state Delegates and Senators and complain - we have a few politicians on our side, but we need more.
Basically told him how the electronic cigarette helped me quit smoking, and described my health improvements.
Then I stated that my problem is that Dr. Karen Remley, the State Health Commissioner has taken the position that the product is included in the smoking ban, and summarized her zeroing in on the phrase "cigarette of any kind" and citing the 3rd alternative definition of "smoke" from Webster's. Then I wrote:
Oh, I also faxed a copy of the sgned letter (hard copy) from Dr. Remley to my Delegate, that tells in her own words what I summarized above. If you have read any of Hagy's responses to people's emails, you have pretty much read what Dr. Remley wrote to my Delegate.
Then I stated that my problem is that Dr. Karen Remley, the State Health Commissioner has taken the position that the product is included in the smoking ban, and summarized her zeroing in on the phrase "cigarette of any kind" and citing the 3rd alternative definition of "smoke" from Webster's. Then I wrote:
Oh, I also faxed a copy of the sgned letter (hard copy) from Dr. Remley to my Delegate, that tells in her own words what I summarized above. If you have read any of Hagy's responses to people's emails, you have pretty much read what Dr. Remley wrote to my Delegate.
I asked Hagy if they had spoken to the Attorney General's office, since we know at least one Delegate had already contacted the AG's office (and been told they deferred to the Health Dept.) and my Delegate is supposed to (haven't heard from him). Hagy said they talked to their counsel at the AG's office "three times" and all the counsel did was basically go along with them and thank them for enforcing the ban.
We need to let the politicians know it's not just a few people fighting this, that there are a lot of voters who want to see common sense return to Virginia. They already know the public is pretty fed up with politicians right now, and this is one reason....ridiculous government "interpretations" and politicians who make promises but don't follow through (unless you have a lot of money to contribute to their campaign) or cave to the politically correct.
We need to let the politicians know it's not just a few people fighting this, that there are a lot of voters who want to see common sense return to Virginia. They already know the public is pretty fed up with politicians right now, and this is one reason....ridiculous government "interpretations" and politicians who make promises but don't follow through (unless you have a lot of money to contribute to their campaign) or cave to the politically correct.
I just faxed a followup letter to Governor McDonnel. Right now, he believes he has one constituent who cares about this issue. Can we correct that?
A sample letter that you can fax to the governor's office appears below.
VIA Fax: (804) 371-6351
Office of the Governor
Patrick Henry Building, 3rd Floor
1111 East Broad Street
Richmond, Virginia 23219
Dear Governor McDonnell:
I smoked for __ years. Thanks to an electronic cigarette, I have _______ [e.g., been smoke-free for 10 months, reduced my smoking to 1 cigarette a day ... whatever describes your situation. Also talk about any health improvements you have experienced.]
I depend on regular use of my e-cigarette to ___________ [e.g., remain smoke free, continue in my quest to become totally smoke-free ... whatever describes your situation.}
Please direct State Health Commissioner Dr. Karen Remley to remove "electronic cigarettes" from the VDH FAQ page on the smoking ban. _______ [Former smokers or Those trying to stop smoking] should not be required to subject themselves to second-hand smoke.
[Signature}
Your full name
Your address
City, State Zip
Home Phone:
Daytome Phone:
email address
A sample letter that you can fax to the governor's office appears below.
VIA Fax: (804) 371-6351
Office of the Governor
Patrick Henry Building, 3rd Floor
1111 East Broad Street
Richmond, Virginia 23219
Dear Governor McDonnell:
I smoked for __ years. Thanks to an electronic cigarette, I have _______ [e.g., been smoke-free for 10 months, reduced my smoking to 1 cigarette a day ... whatever describes your situation. Also talk about any health improvements you have experienced.]
I depend on regular use of my e-cigarette to ___________ [e.g., remain smoke free, continue in my quest to become totally smoke-free ... whatever describes your situation.}
Please direct State Health Commissioner Dr. Karen Remley to remove "electronic cigarettes" from the VDH FAQ page on the smoking ban. _______ [Former smokers or Those trying to stop smoking] should not be required to subject themselves to second-hand smoke.
[Signature}
Your full name
Your address
City, State Zip
Home Phone:
Daytome Phone:
email address
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Thanks for the update can we e-mail a copy I can't fax? If so to what address? Thanks
There is an online form you can fill out here: Official Site of the Governor of Virginia
But I also would recommend creating the letter on paper, signing it, and sending it by snail mail if you can't fax it.
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