Almost 30 years close enough to really see how it works in government, I'll second your observations. And append that with they will be getting a lot of assistance from the rest of the political machine in doing so.
Preparing For "Civil Disobedience".
- Thread starter Scott2Quit
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
Almost 30 years close enough to really see how it works in government, I'll second your observations. And append that with they will be getting a lot of assistance from the rest of the political machine in doing so.
THIS !!!
I have no idea how these 'people' dream that they can actually ban something that can be easily be made in your garage, if you have some skills and some resources (Unfortunately, I lack both, but that's another story...
). Something that people are WILLING to make themselves as some last resort, to spare their own health! The very thing 'people' with responsability over others, with ruling power, did NOT do!!So, hardware problem solved. The next problem would be getting nicotine base for our DIY liquids. But, we have seen many people in this forum who have gradually reached non-nicotine liquid. Almost effortlessly, it seems. So, maybe stockpiling some e-liquid, and/or resorting to Pharma NRT's, only for a short time, and backing that up with non-nic liquid for the behavioral side, would get us nicotine free, WITHOUT resorting to smoking again.
Once nic-free, what are they going to ban next? PG, VG, purified water, that we can buy at a pharmacy? Flavourings that are sold legally, for OTHER purposes besides vaping? Good luck with that, indeed...!
Civil disobedience (NOT buying tobacco again to line their pockets, as they wish, but rather find 'ways' to keep vaping, AS WE KNOW IT, available) is, in this case, a RIGHT we have. The right of SELF-PRESERVATION, because it is our HEALTH that is at stake here. This insane TPD was NEVER about 'health'. It's just that without it, it would be much difficult for those 'people' to go on getting their hands in our pockets. Neverming that by doing so, those 'people' are actually trampling our health in the process. They just don't care, so, civil desobedience is exactly what they deserve.
Govt's have yet to realize that they cannot rule forever AGAINST their people. Sooner or later, people put an end to it.
I have no idea how these 'people' dream that they can actually ban something that can be easily be made in your garage, if you have some skills and some resources (Unfortunately, I lack both, but that's another story...
It's trivially easy to make a PV. The basic principle is 18th century technology. You could conceivably make a functional mod you can vape off of with an old pen, a battery, some steel wool, a piece of cloth, some wire and glycerin within an hour in your kitchen. All the niceties you find in commercial mods and tanks are just that - niceties.
I'm thinking of putting together a document to describe how to make a functional (and if possible, nice) PV using household items, in case vapers ever have to go truly underground. That's how angry I am with our powers that be. If someone more versed in chemistry than I am would create a recipe to make a reasonably safe nicotine base liquid out of ordinary tobacco that a Joe Blow like me with very little equipment could follow, we'd be self-sufficient and legislation-proof, at least as far as basic vaping requirements are concerned. Who wants to join the effort?
I could sacrifice a toaster or hair dryer for the resistance wire.
Since all the actions anti vaping started, I must admit that I've invested in hefty stocks of nicotine, flavoring, different battery holders, devices all rebuildable for vaping my DIY juices, and the knowledge necessary to be a juice DIYer and in coil making.
I could be a "self sufficient vaper" for quite a few years, and have no qualms about doing so illegally.
I've been afraid that it will come to this eventually, but I still keep signing, writing etc. And Europe is relatively civilized, for the moment, about the subject, in comparison to the USA, and the Pacific 'Australia etc.).
But I'm afraid it won't stay that way forever. My attitude is to stock pile the maximum possible, in the basic necessities for vaping, those that risk to be out of stock, or illegal, if vaping is ever banned or very strictly controlled.
I could NEVER get used to using bought, ready made juice again, and I have a hatred too strong of cartomisers with filling in, which are the principal threats to my every day anti smoking life, in the sense of being ruled as the "safe" method of vaping, by our European Parliament.
Why the diverse organisms concerned would want me to smoke is beyond me, as far as health considerations go.
As for financial considerations, it's sadly too easy to understand.
As an after thought, if you have bio tobacco, and of course vape tobacco flavors, you can make a very pleasant tobacco juice, with VG (or PG if you prefer) and nicotine. As, the basic glitch, almost no nicotine is extracted in this manner, from your tobacco. Although there are without doubt, methods, but a bit dodgy if you aren't a chemist
I could be a "self sufficient vaper" for quite a few years, and have no qualms about doing so illegally.
I've been afraid that it will come to this eventually, but I still keep signing, writing etc. And Europe is relatively civilized, for the moment, about the subject, in comparison to the USA, and the Pacific 'Australia etc.).
But I'm afraid it won't stay that way forever. My attitude is to stock pile the maximum possible, in the basic necessities for vaping, those that risk to be out of stock, or illegal, if vaping is ever banned or very strictly controlled.
I could NEVER get used to using bought, ready made juice again, and I have a hatred too strong of cartomisers with filling in, which are the principal threats to my every day anti smoking life, in the sense of being ruled as the "safe" method of vaping, by our European Parliament.
Why the diverse organisms concerned would want me to smoke is beyond me, as far as health considerations go.
As for financial considerations, it's sadly too easy to understand.
As an after thought, if you have bio tobacco, and of course vape tobacco flavors, you can make a very pleasant tobacco juice, with VG (or PG if you prefer) and nicotine. As, the basic glitch, almost no nicotine is extracted in this manner, from your tobacco. Although there are without doubt, methods, but a bit dodgy if you aren't a chemist
Last edited:
The thing that gets me is the insistance in today's society on applying the precautionary principle: vaping may be dangerous, we don't have enough data, so let's ban it before/if it does harm, maybe - is what the authorities are saying. Good thing scientists and health autorities - such as they were - weren't so skittish in the past, else we'd never have aspirine, penicilin or vaccines: if these things were discovered today, they'd be banned outright before their effects are even fully understood.
Well, I say if you don't have enough data, let us find out whether vaping is dangerous for you: if we die, you'll know it was a bad idea. If we don't and smoking drops dramatically, you'll have discovered something useful. But don't pass laws on us without knowing jack squat, just because it might be harmful for crying out loud!
Well, I say if you don't have enough data, let us find out whether vaping is dangerous for you: if we die, you'll know it was a bad idea. If we don't and smoking drops dramatically, you'll have discovered something useful. But don't pass laws on us without knowing jack squat, just because it might be harmful for crying out loud!
ALA has the donated money. They have the strive to improve lung health mission statement. They lack the will to research vaping harm reduction potential. Disgusting.
The thing that is being discovered is that if smoking drops drastically, so does tax revenue.
Caution: The use of electronic cigarettes has proven to be deadly to government coffers.
Last edited:
I think that....
In the beginning, it was Big Pharma that was all about destroying electronic cigarettes.
But the latest statistics show that a very real drop in cigarette sales is now happening, which is getting the politicos up in arms.
Taxes are starting to take a real hit.
The more successful electronic cigarettes become, the more people who line up to smash them.
The only thing we have is our stories of health and success.
And hopefully, our desire to fight for what we have gained financially, physically, and socially.
If we don't fight, we will be crushed into nothing.
That's actually a GREAT idea! I do not know about other people, but, for the last five years, I was actually quite satisfied with the eGo...
Eventually, I COULD have moved on to mods, RBA's, etc... the ONLY reason that made spend around 700 Eur in the last three months, in mech mods, kicks, rebuidable attys, cotton and wire, is that I was FORCED to do it NOW, by our shady Govt's who are much more worried about their pockets, than about the health of people who also VOTE!!
So, I guess those mods and attys that I'm stockpiling right now won't last forever... some kind of 'tutorial' on how to replace those items with something that we could make ourselves would surelly be very welcome !!
Well, unfortunately, there is very objective data today, on just how HARMFUL the e-cigarette is. To their pockets, that is!!
This was even before the first attempt at a de-facto ban: the 'medicalization' route:
Written question - Tax revenue from electronic cigarettes - E-004672/2013
You can bet this was the 'data' they used to ban the e-cig in Europe!!
Well, unfortunately, there is very objective data today, on just how HARMFUL the e-cigarette is. To their pockets, that is!!
This was even before the first attempt at a de-facto ban: the 'medicalization' route:
Written question - Tax revenue from electronic cigarettes - E-004672/2013
You can bet this was the 'data' they used to ban the e-cig in Europe!!
And as we all know, decreasing tax revenue is doubleplusungood "For The Children!!!!!!!"
I don't want to aid the already over rich Big P or Big T to get any richer by paying them so that I don't need their toxic products to get me unhooked from Big T's tobacco, freely and openly distributed, even at the school gate when I was 12 or so. They should pay me, as they've done in the USA in certain cases. No one told me, when they sold single cigarettes to the kids like me, that I'd get hooked and that it'd give me various pathologies, often incurable and fatal. Pathologies that in their turn enrich Big P, who have no interest in people vaping, as it causes, as far as we know up to date, no "useful" pathologies, to fill their pockets even more.
It'd really be the last straw if I paid these Killer salesmen for the right to vape. I'm gradually stocking up nicotine to avoid this ever being my only solution!
I'm also collecting rebuildables...tanks, glassomizers, etc, and have, apart from a few electronic battery tubes, quite a few mechanical ones.
Frankly, I can't imagine, being an electronics fan, resistive wire ever being hard to find, nor cotton, nor SS mesh. Even electronic circuits will not be hard to get hold of.
Tobacco flavor, now that's NOT a food additive, so I'm hoping that Tobacco Extract and Tobacco Absolute are long duration products...Any one know the best way to keep these flavors fresh ?
The most valuable "product" is in fact KNOWLEDGE. How to keep the useables, such as TE and TA fresh, as for nicotine conservation, too, and other flavors that might become rare or controlled.
So share our INFORMATION on keeping the products consumable as fresh as possible, for the maximum time, PLEASE, fellow vapers who want to ride out the storm
Yes. I was thinking about the new tax Italy is charging for vaping: a 58% tax, I believe. Now, that's quite arbitrary: to heavily tax something despite the fact that there is NO evidence of harm (quite the contrary, in fact). Smokers already pay way too much in 'sin-taxes': one could think they were meant to cover for treatment expenses, but in fact Govt's get a huge PROFIT from that tax. An now, we have an example of another undercover 'sin-tax', that is ACTUALLY a 'bribe-tax': "For now, you will pay 58% so that we let you freely choose an healthier alternative to tobacco. That does NOT mean we will not ban vaping in the future: tobacco 'sin-tax' is much higher than the miserable 58% we are asking from you right now"
Vaping should in fact lead to a net increase in state revenues: tax incomes on tobacco drop, but so do health insurance expenses due to tobacco-related illnesses - at least in Europe. However, the problems are:
1/ Taxes on tobacco products are a "dense" source of revenue (i.e. one product, one tax, beaucoup bucks) while health-related savings are diffuse and hard to measure (fewer cancers, but also happier, more active, more productive people who work better/harder... that sort of thing).
2/ The drop in cancers and associated savings will kick in 10 to 20 years from now, while politicians never plan for the future past the next election.
1/ Taxes on tobacco products are a "dense" source of revenue (i.e. one product, one tax, beaucoup bucks) while health-related savings are diffuse and hard to measure (fewer cancers, but also happier, more active, more productive people who work better/harder... that sort of thing).
2/ The drop in cancers and associated savings will kick in 10 to 20 years from now, while politicians never plan for the future past the next election.
Replying to myself here...
I've gone beyond the thinking-about-it stage and I designed a mod entirely made of parts from hardware, electronics, and RC models stores. I've got all the parts here, just waiting for my local electronics store to receive the silica rope and resistance wire I've ordered. Yes, I could have ordered online, but the point of the exercize is to make a mod with no specialized parts.
It'll be a VV (well, PWM actually), 12V mod that can be either a bottom feeder or a wicker. It'll be bomb-proof, to last a long time. The atomizer coil will be visible in its glass enclosure, which I expect to look cool
I've designed the thing so that any handyman with a few tools and basic skills in metalworking and putting together simple electronic circuits on a perfboard, and virtually no access to traditional vaping gear, can make it.So, stay tuned as I make the first - hopefully functional - prototype.
Giraut - not sure if you are aware of this forum here: Modding Forum
You may find some useful information there to help with this project.
You may find some useful information there to help with this project.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
