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Preparing for Regulations?

Discussion in 'DIY E-Liquid' started by reklaw732, Oct 27, 2015.

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  1. reklaw732

    reklaw732 Full Member

    Jul 15, 2014
    So the TVECA has released the guidelines the FDA has for vapor companies to submit their Premarket Tobacco Applications. After reading it we can only imagine the destruction this PMTA and other regulations will have on the vaping industry as we know. Not only will this stunt innovation, but it will also make vapor products much more expensive. This in the end will scare away smokers, which is the worst part of it all. There are still millions of smokers who have not found the quitting cheat code known as vaping.

    But where does this leave DIYer's? The guidelines are quite vague, which makes it easier for the FDA to classify any products that seems like vapor products a tobacco product. But can they classify flavorings suspended in PG/VG as a tobacco product? What about nicotine? Will we be able to have access to it whenever we please? VG? PG? These questions might seem simple to answer, but these incoming regulations (from TVECA) are quite strict and we can see they want to drive the market completely into BT/BP hands. I am getting inundated with tons of emails already from new mixers looking for advice to start. This is worrisome because we already have trouble getting the ingredients we need, I can't imagine how difficult it will be when the entire industry is in a panic.

    I want to know everyone's plans for the worst. Are you doing anything to prepare for an apocalypse? What kind of storage solutions are you using? Are you stocking up on flavorings and nicotine? I just want to know if anyone is worried, or has any plans, for a worst case scenario...which seems like this is what is going to happen.
    • Like Like x 1
  2. KentA

    KentA Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 5, 2015
    Adirondack Mountains
    Obtaining nicotine will be our weakness.
    I'm stocking the freezer.
    It's those smokers that have not switched over that I feel sorry for. These regulations are designed to keep them away from vaping.
    • Like Like x 4
  3. sketchness

    sketchness Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 3, 2014
    Sacramento, CA
    First I am going to join the call to action and make sure my voice is heard.

    Second I am encouraging others to do the same

    Third I will certainly be purchasing a few devices I have been eyeing. An rda or two some mods more kanthal etc.

    Fourth I am not going to panic. I have enough nic on hand to make 32 liters of juice. And would surely buy several more liters if it looks like we will be limited for a while.

    Finally. I am just going to see how it unfolds and try to be the best advocate for vaping that I can be.
    • Like Like x 4
  4. mommabird62

    mommabird62 squonkhead Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 11, 2014
    Same here. I answer all of the calls to action that I receive from CASAA. Have about a 5 year supply of nic in the freezer. Could reduce down from 6mg to 3mg if need be to stretch that out. Plenty of other supplies and gear on hand. I think we would still be able to get flavorings along with PG and VG since they are widely used in other things.

    It's a very good idea for everyone to be proactive and fight for our rights. It's a shame that we should have to fight for a healthier lifestyle to begin with. Watching very closely at how it all unfolds.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk with my paws :)

    • Like Like x 5
  5. Jugband

    Jugband Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 10, 2013
    PA, USA
    Couldn't agree more to what has already been said. I got the email call to action from CASSA, responded immediately.

    As for me though, another liter of nicotine is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow. I have a freezer full already. But I'm also shopping for a mini freezer right now. I plan to be prepared no matter what.

    I'm sure there are many experienced vapors doing the same. I guess we'll be alright. But that's certainly not enough. Every smoker I see is one too many to be left in the weeds because they didn't find out soon enough. I believe in self preservation while fighting for everyone who hasn't been fortunate enough to discover vapeing.
    • Like Like x 4
  6. sketchness

    sketchness Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 3, 2014
    Sacramento, CA
    @Jugband i agree. I PIF lots of juice to others. I can see myself stocking up on some cheaper nic to continue this practice.

    Have a liter of premium nic in the usps jungle right now. My stockpile of nic is pedestrian by ECF standards but increasing. I see most of my new raise being used to stock up on nic. I am not real worried about other ingredients.

    I also have a bunch of faith (perhaps misguided) that whatever happens next in vaping will not be a death sentence.
    • Like Like x 4
  7. Jugband

    Jugband Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 10, 2013
    PA, USA
    You're doing good! Best of luck to you sketchness :thumb:
  8. Eric Auer

    Eric Auer Super Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 14, 2014
    I support all CAASA efforts as much as possible.

    However I doubt Things will be that impossible to get as some people think. I too have faith.

    In the case of NIC being banned, I would just quit at that stage, period.

    By that time I predict pot will be legal all over the U.S. (Oh the Irony)

    • Like Like x 7
  9. JamezC

    JamezC Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 20, 2013
    Like everyone who replied, I answered CASAA's call to action and sent an email, as should everyone else.

    As far as preparing for the worst, well, I already have enough nic to last me upwards of 7 years, so I'm fine there. I don't think flavorings or pg/vg will really be an issue, since they can be used for a variety of purposes outside of vaping. I think that we should do all that we possibly can to get our voice's out there, but it doesn't hurt to prepare for the worst.
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Jugband

    Jugband Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 10, 2013
    PA, USA
    If everyone can allow me a little leeway, I'd like to share my feelings on "The worst case scenario/ vapeing apocalypse"

    As said, I have about a dozen mechs. Also several spare parts. I personally don't purchase any mod I can't fix. Every purchase I make now is about, how does this sustain me for a bleak future? Just MO I stay away from anything regulated. If I can't fix it, I don't spend money on it. I need mechs and spare parts. Also I have a wide variety RDA's

    Nicotine, I have enough to last me for several, several years. But while the getting is good, I continue to get. Now I pay about $40.00 a liter. In the US, that's dirt cheap! Who knows how long we have in the land of the plenty?

    As for me, if they shut us down tomorrow, I'm good! I'll comfortably vape for the rest of my life. But something continues to keep me involved in our right to vape.

    About three years ago, as my money went to Marlboro Smooths, a great friend of mine kept twisting my arm to give vapeing a try. I resisted. I didn't want to suck on a battery, and liquefy nicotine into vaper. Thankfully she persisted and wore me down. If not for her, I'd still be a smoker. Maybe by now, with the popularity, I would have wondered into a vape shop. A newbie, what's this about? Not enough time, not enough info to prepare. A crooked government shutting us down. I'd be to little to late.

    We have to fight for those who are joining us late. So easily you or me. We're the lucky ones, for whatever reason we're here. Let's toss out a lifeline for all those who weren't lucky enough to find vapeing sooner. Someone saved me sooner, let's save those left behind now.
    • Like Like x 13
  11. MouseD

    MouseD Full Member

    Jul 21, 2015
    How long can Nic be kept safely in a freezer?
  12. mhertz

    mhertz Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 7, 2014
    Nic dosen't spoil, but oxidize which impreeds flavor and smell into our mix. Currently, some people have reported no noticable change in 6-8 years, so this suggests many years foreward to be fine... One nic several years ago did oxidize though in the freezer, but the owner suspected it to be because of low quality nic with suspended matter, which we usually don't have these days I believe...

    Both pg and vg nic dosen't freeze in normal freezer temps, but where pg still is relativelly fluid, then vg gets gellatinous and because of these viscosity differences, it has been speculated that nic in vg will probably last longer than nic in pg, provided that it's undilluted, or just very slightly dilluted only. This is because the viscosity makes it harder for the nic and O2 particles to bond and react.

    I personally, like others, only care about the nic, since allthough I don't think it will be impossible to get in the feature, then I highly believe it will be much more expensive, and so stocking up in the freezer is very sensible/economical...

    Everything else, like pg, vg, flavors, kanthal etc. can always be gotten cheaply I believe, and most of us allready have alot of rta/rda's and mods on hand...
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Str8vision

    Str8vision Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2013
    Sallisaw, Oklahoma USA
    I've already bought and stored "decades" worth of 100mg liquid nic. Currently using cobalt blue (opaque), 60ml glass bottles filled to the brim and sealed. The bottles are organized and sealed inside plastic containers, stacked on each other and stored at -10F. Also acquired quite a few new "replacement" mech mods and RBAs (my favorites), even have ample spare parts for them. Not worried about PG, VG, Japanese cotton, Kanthal or 18650 batteries (although I have years worth of each on hand), because they're all readily available through other industries/sources.

    Being an avid NET fan I spent years learning how to extract and mix my own. Easy to do and just $9 worth of premium tobacco makes around 1000ml of the best NET available. I'm all but FDA proof and it feels quite nice, having security and peace of mind while surviving in such a flagrant, obvious Corporatocracy is "priceless".
    • Like Like x 4
  14. reklaw732

    reklaw732 Full Member

    Jul 15, 2014
    I keep bringing up the fact it's the flavorings I'm worried about. We already can't get some of the ingredients we need, imagine how difficult it will be when the entire consumer base is moving to DIY. How will these flavor vendors handle the traffic? They are quite small afterall. Also, pressure on companies like TFA from the government might scare them away from dealing with anything having to do with vaping. TFA has stated to me they do not want to be associated with vaping ever, so if the FDA comes to them and see them dealing with vapers and threatens them to classify them as a tobacco product (which they can under the current language) they might completely pull out. All hypothetical, but I like to stay prepared. I have a father that CANNOT GO BACK TO SMOKING, so I need to make sure he has a vape until he dies.
    • Like Like x 2
  15. 93gc40

    93gc40 Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Oct 5, 2014
    I'm pretty sure they won't be banning GYCERIN, flash light batteries or heating wire. Those are after-all, the ONLY 3 things needed to vape.

    I might stock up on Nicotine.
    But the rest of my supplies???
    I vape on MECHs. and build my coils. So I got that end covered.
    Glycerin and flavorings. Until they ban FOOD, that's doable. Unflavored Juice isn't that bad, anyway.
    I do prefer Tocabcco NETs. I could GROW it in my yard. But since the T Industry is sponsoring the Regs. Tobacco will still be available.

    But simple facts is. I vape to not smoke. It only took 6 months to make the switch...... I also know my nicotine addiction has not been addressed yet. I know I won't go back to the C-stick. I'm pretty sure I could ween myself down and quit the Nic, pretty easily. Now I'm down to just the habit.
  16. Jdurand

    Jdurand Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 16, 2014
    Long Island, NY
    I've just started to DIY my juice, but I have been starting to stock up on nic. That truly will be our only vulnerable point. So far I have been getting the 100MG/ML nic concentrate, but I may up that to save on storage space.
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Firestorm

    Firestorm Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Nov 25, 2012
    Like many, I have a collection of mechanical mods and atomizers that should last a lifetime. Although I have equipment and ingredients to DIY, I haven't made too much and I haven't made anything that I love. I've gotten back into DIY over the past few weeks and I've purchased more flavorings and tried a handful of new recipes. I'm going to continue to perfect my DIY craft with the goals of saving money and becoming more independent if/when restrictions and taxes come down. I have 250ml of 100mg nicotine in my freezer and I'm considering buying more.
  18. JamezC

    JamezC Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 20, 2013
    For consumers, and people who mix primarily for themselves, I don't think it'll be hard at all to get flavorings even if those companies are pressured by the FDA. I mean, how would they know what you plan to use said flavorings for? Now, for e-liquid companies, that could certainly be a different story. I will agree that the traffic of flavoring companies like TFA, CAP, etc could certainly have a huge impact on DIY in general if more people jump on to the DIY bandwagon. If that's the case, I hope these companies increase the stock/availability of their flavorings to meet the rising demand.
    • Like Like x 1
  19. mhertz

    mhertz Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 7, 2014
    It dosen't help either to get overly paranoid imho... Like said allready, it obviously will never happen that we cannot get food flavoring for baking and drinks etc, which is what we're currently using, so worrying about that is futile imho...

    The "worst" that can happen, is that flavoring makers cannot brand there products to be used for eliquids...

    Nic as said, is the only true worry aspect here. If you have some rda's and mech-mods + nic in the frezzer, then you have nothing to worry about as far as i'm concerned at least :)
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Huehugh

    Huehugh Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 7, 2015
    A couple of questions.
    1. People talk of freezing nicotine. I'm interested in buying some liters of 100 mg nicotine in preparing for the inevitable. How long will nicotine keep in the freezer? After you take it out do you just let it thaw and everything will be a ok? When it's not in freezer and I'm using it do I just keep it in the fridge. . How long will it be ok in the fridge?
    2. I notice my e liquid calculator has a space for water. Do most diy liquids contain water or is it just pg vg nic and flavors?

    Thanks. I'm getting started in diy ing this week. Excited! !
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