professional companies vs. basement operations (liquid)

[MikeMannZ]

Hi all,

So I'm a newbie, but an oldie (age) and after being here for a couple of weeks and reading several hundred posts and following about the same number of links, I have a few questions.

Johnson creek seems to have a very professional operation. Nice lab, good customer service, great website, and videos of there company floor. Are there any other juice companies that let you in (so to speak), in the same manor?

Since there are no govt. regulations at this point, what sets the bar for these operations?

I'm just getting out of the smoking game, but don't want to fill my lungs with teenage experiments. So I guess the question is....How are companies kept to a certain level of cleanliness and purity.

Thanks much and happy tgiving day,

Mike

 

[wonner]

Since there are no govt. regulations at this point, what sets the bar for these operations?

Welcome to the forum.

To answer your question, there is no bar, no regulation, no oversight.

Do your research and choose accordingly.

 

[Caridwen]

Long time, happy customers?

Lots of highly successful vendors got their start here as regular members that perfected great recipes or had a knack for mixing.

 

[Dakota Jim]

Welcome to the forum.

To answer your question, there is no bar, no regulation, no oversight.

Do your research and choose accordingly.

Wonner is exactly right - the only bar is the eliquid manufacturers personal responsibility to do the right thing

I personally DIY all my own eliquid and would never think of selling it in the conditions I make it in now (no stainless steel counters, no air exchangers etc. - example - I used to reload shotgun shells while I was smoking. So yes, yes I am irresponsible)

Now if I do get sick from some bad eliquid I make I will SUE myself for every cent I have!!! I WILL!!! I live in America and it is my right, NO, my responsibility to tie up the courts with frivolous lawsuits based on my own refusal to be responsible for my own actions. I would win too!!! I don't have a warning label on it telling me NOT to inject it straight into my brain.

ok, sorry, gotta go take a bath and iron some clothes while I am in the tub. It's called multitasking.

 

[wonner]

Hey Jim,

There for a minute you had me a little worried.

It's all good.

 

[devauto]

Hi all,

So I'm a newbie, but an oldie (age) and after being here for a couple of weeks and reading several hundred posts and following about the same number of links, I have a few questions.

Johnson creek seems to have a very professional operation. Nice lab, good customer service, great website, and videos of there company floor. Are there any other juice companies that let you in (so to speak), in the same manor?

Since there are no govt. regulations at this point, what sets the bar for these operations?

I'm just getting out of the smoking game, but don't want to fill my lungs with teenage experiments. So I guess the question is....How are companies kept to a certain level of cleanliness and purity.

Thanks much and happy tgiving day,

Mike

Hi Mike, welcome to ECF.

Okay, as already mentioned, there are no regulations (currently), or oversight. However, what works for me, is to read the Spinfuel reviews, and choose vendors from their reviews. Spinfuel tries to ensure that the juices they review come from legitimate organizations, and part of their criteria is to validate that the company has laboratory conditions and procedures for mixing and handling ingredients and juice.

There is always a chance that something gets passed them, but at least they make an effort. So far, I have not had a problem with any of the companies I have selected from their lists. In fact, I have actually been to one of them and seen the "lab" where the juice is mixed. As a result, I am very comfortable with Spinfuel and their efforts to validate companies and review their juices.

So the bottom line is that, in lieu of any regulatory body, I have at least some modicum of faith that Spinfuel has made an effort to validate the companies they review. As always ... YMMV!

HTH!

 

[Vapoor eyes er]

There is the AEMSA | American E-Liquid Manufacturing Standards Association which does set certain standards for it's members in regards to the mixing, sourcing, sanitation, etc of E-Liquid.

 

[iBigChill]

The majority of my job is regulatory work. I appreciate the reasons for the majority of regulatory paperwork that keeps me chained to a desk and far away from my Snap-On tools that I miss being able to use all day long. SOPs, MOCs, PSSRs, and PSI are not nearly as much fun as overhauling a compound reciprocating ammonia compressor. With that said, I am scared of government regulation with concern to vaping right now. I would like to see more public and government acceptance before regulation comes about. At that point I would like to see regulation to set standards similar to Food Safety Audits.

 

[stevegmu]

I go by reputation, price and the looks of their websites. If they have a good reputation, like Halo, Alice In Vapeland or ProVape, have professional web sites and aren't bottom dollar vendors, they are all right for me. Also not using made in China ingredients is a major consideration for me.

 

[RedNBlack]

Welcome MMZ to the ECF neighborhood,

Right now........not much regulation.....no Big Brother yet.

Most that are listed in the Forum Suppliers,
are there because they have proven to be part of the ECF "neighborhood".
More concerned with their neighbors.....
Besides word of mouth..........travels, quick here.

As an example Mt Baker had a concern for their customers,
pulled a certain flavor until they had info
that their customers would in fact be ok.........

 

[elfy]

Also not using made in China ingredients is a major consideration for me.

Oh yes. +1 to that. Im kinda picky about my vendors too, only used 5 so far. One I wont use again, mostly because I just didnt like their flavors.

Others I've used and would buy from again mostly because I get the vibe from them that they take what they are doing quite seriously and also have been mentioned many times in threads here and the overall opinions are positive.

I want to DIY some juice, but Im new to this whole vaping thing so one step at a time; first was to get some gear, second was to find decent juice suppliers, third was figuring out I could indeed rebuild my coils/heads and fourth...vape? Yah, vape. A lot!

I guess next is some VG/PG supply, maybe not a gallon of each just yet, but...more than just a 3oz. bottle. A quart? Maybe.

Ive been looking at some suppliers, I keep seeing VG but I am not sure exactly about the sources for it, Id like GMO free stuff if thats possible. I still have a lot to learn about it, I guess.

 

[wonner]

...no Big Brother yet....

Big brother -- the one everyone likes to throw out there -- is not the only answer. Many industries have prevented government intrusion by implementing real auditable oversite and inspection -- not to be confused with voluntary self-regulation (AEMSA).

The industry needs to step it up or big brother will be the only option if ecigs are to survive.

 

[p.opus]

I must admit, I like the juice from Vapor 4 Life, but I am pretty sure they import their juice from China. I asked them about it and someone sent me a video of the lab they use. I don't consider that conclusive evidence. However Vapor 4 Life has been around since when KR808D's were the vape of choice and I have never heard of any issues with their juice.

Plus, I am simply addicted to their Wowboy flavor.

I've also ordered from Alien Visions as almost everyone here seems to have Boba's Bounty sitting somewhere.

I just recently ordered from ECBlend. They are supposed to have an apple that tastes like sour apple. I'm interested on seeing how it works out. ECBlend seems to have an iffy reputation. We'll see. I was interested in them only for the green apple, as Wowboy is my all day vape.

 

[stevegmu]

Big brother -- the one everyone likes to throw out there -- is not the only answer. Many industries have prevented government intrusion by implementing real auditable oversite and inspection -- not to be confused with voluntary self-regulation (AEMSA).

The industry needs to step it up or big brother will be the only option if ecigs are to survive.

Self regulation, or not, there will be regulation. How it has taken so long is what is surprising. Everything one commercially produces and legally sells that is consumed is regulated in the US.

 

[stylezuk]

Not smoking China juice would knock out DK & Hangsen 2 major providers, to which I'd trust more than my local D.I.Y mixing shop, I agree with others read reviews and trust out lets that are used by others and look like they are respectable it's the same with buying most things check out before buying.

If it's just regualtion are far as they need to provide what is in the liquid on bottle and know that they may be checked that'd be a normal food come product, but to try and make them Medical use like in the UK it's a joke.

 

[WillyZee]

I'm not too worried about small home based vendors ... this Industry is full of good caring people

however ... I don't worry about eating at the neighbour's BBQ either

Now, the guy down at the corner variety store who is mixing because he thinks he can make a quick buck ... no thanks

 

[MikeMannZ]

Hi Mike, welcome to ECF.

Okay, as already mentioned, there are no regulations (currently), or oversight. However, what works for me, is to read the Spinfuel reviews, and choose vendors from their reviews. Spinfuel tries to ensure that the juices they review come from legitimate organizations, and part of their criteria is to validate that the company has laboratory conditions and procedures for mixing and handling ingredients and juice.

There is always a chance that something gets passed them, but at least they make an effort. So far, I have not had a problem with any of the companies I have selected from their lists. In fact, I have actually been to one of them and seen the "lab" where the juice is mixed. As a result, I am very comfortable with Spinfuel and their efforts to validate companies and review their juices.

So the bottom line is that, in lieu of any regulatory body, I have at least some modicum of faith that Spinfuel has made an effort to validate the companies they review. As always ... YMMV!

HTH!

Hi devauto,

Thanks so much for the response and the website. Lot's of good reading there for sure. NicQuid seems like they really have their act together as well. Companies that have SO Class 6 / FED STD 209E Class 1000 Clean Rooms are going to be still in existence when the govt. steps in and has their say. I'm not trying to be a downer, but it's gonna happen. I'm a pyrotechnician and all I do is answer to the man, so I can say from experience regulations are just around the corner. It's both good and bad because it challenges our rights, but it can protect the common user from purchasing bad ingredients or even possibly poison. They will never stop DIY er's and that's a good thing because we should all have a right to produce anything for ourselves... hell that's actually how I got started as a pyro and in the end that's what freedom in American really widdles down to.





Mike

 

[klynnn]

I make my own but have never used the bathtub or the basement. Eliquid is quite easy to make, you don't need to be a rocket scientist. Just have to have lots of patience.

 

[PLANofMAN]

Welcome to the forum.

To answer your question, there is no bar, no regulation, no oversight.

Do your research and choose accordingly.

Not entirely true. There are a handful of USA e-liquid manufacturers that have an FDA registered facility as a tobacco manufacturer and food manufacturer. They have to pass FDA inspections that make AEMSA's certification standards look like a joke.

Johnson Creek is one. Aroma EJuice is another. There might be others.

 

[djsvapour]

Interesting.

I vape a fair bit of Hangsen and Dekang (tobacco flavours) and have no worries about it. Some people (vendors) have visited these factories and unless they have another operation in some dodgy back street mixing 3rd grade e-liquid, I am happy to trust it.

In regard to small "niche" sellers. It is a worry. I am concerned about the rise of cheap liquid, yes.
Mostly, I buy from 4 or 5 specialist makers, three of which I have met - all are medium-big operations now.
The worry is less about the ingredients, more the "labs"...but I do inherently trust them.

I wouldn't trust mass-imported "no brand" liquid badged up with "made in the UK" when it comes from anywhere. As far as I a concerned, this is the sort of product we need to get rid of ASAP.