Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

[MacTechVpr]

If I can build it myself, I can make it better!

Just an initial opinion until I pick one up!! And I WILL!!!

vape On My Friends! GO KANGER TECH. !!!!!

PS: It's sad where the technology has to come from! At least someone listens!

Here, here crg! Good fer ya.

I have no doubt they're listening crg, intently. Weren't they listening last summer to the minute REO's community and learned that micro's were migrating out of that vaping microcosm into the general population? Didn't we then find ourselves deluged with drippers by Xmas. Oh yeah, they're listening.

I guess it's time to finish building out the Kay's, Aqua's, genny's and various sundry…so I can have something for comparison beyond the typical clearo. The sub's gonna have to have a good wiring harness to do laps with the monster I gotta tell ya. And probably a harder time vs. some of the high tech tensioned spaced and contact winds some of the folks on this thread put out. But ya never know there could be somethin' magical in there somewhere to be had. I guess my protest is one of lack of interest for lack of real innovation. For the incessant copying of others and of us. The ever increasing demand to spend more and more money on even pricier consumables. And this serves us how?

Don't get me wrong I like the part about easier access for rebuild (if it's true). Now if their competitors got the message I might be tempted to rebuild an Aspire Kay clone I have to pay double for. You know, just for kicks.

Insofar as innovation. It is happening here. We do have authentic efforts by some in our community. It's largely ignored. But that's a story for another day. And perhaps I'll be bringing it here and elsewhere on this forum because it's a story that deserves to be told.

Good luck all.

 

[crg31953]

We Will be here for a long time my Friend!!

Someone has to motivate the FUTURE of Vaping!

From A Galaxy Far Away
Using Tapatalk Pro

 

[clnire]

I'm sorry. I don't even own or want a Kayfun. Ok so I am old and old school. What I have works for me, I rebuild better each time, and it costs me pennies. Right now I just don't need 100 watts (8 is about the highest I go), the latest and greatest (that is going to change tomorrow), so I take everything I am learning to be cost effective and self sufficient and that's my story and I'm sticking to it (for now...)

 

[crg31953]

I'm sorry. I don't even own or want a Kayfun. Ok so I am old and old school. What I have works for me, I rebuild better each time, and it costs me pennies. Right now I just don't need 100 watts (8 is about the highest I go), the latest and greatest (that is going to change tomorrow), so I take everything I am learning to be cost effective and self sufficient and that's my story and I'm sticking to it (for now...)

I can't argue with you on that!

Right, Wrong or Otherwise, I seem to base my other devices on the flavor and vapor of my KPT's!!

Vape On My Friends!

From A Galaxy Far Away
Using Tapatalk Pro

 

[MacTechVpr]

I can't argue with you on that!

Right, Wrong or Otherwise, I seem to base my other devices on the flavor and vapor of my KPT's!!

Vape On My Friends!

From A Galaxy Far Away
Using Tapatalk Pro

Funny you said that. Whether's it's the monster or the standard 29 over we espouse here on this thread it's the go to stick when I just want to sit down and relax. Catch something more than 20 mins of the news. When I research and study or seriously write. When I need that darn 20 min chain to go reliably….that's what I go to. Something that just works.

And I usually have at least one tank lying around that's filled with a fresh batt.

(Let's not be forgetting that now. It's the physical universe after all. Not magic or wishful thinking.)

Nah, you gotta have a plan. And I'm with ya C, we'll hang out a bit.

Take care all and good luck.



p.s. The first flight on the Mega turned out pretty good as Kanger's go. The predictable limit hit early on the 2nd coil getting scorch by the end of the 1st day. Kept it going another day before dropping a monster build on it. That went sour very quickly! Which had me baffled an entire day as I struggled with horrible flooding. I finally reduced it to the impossible. Bad Nextel wick. A badly handled sample I apparently mis-bagged/ labeled at some point on some outside call.

 

[Monotremata]

I'm sorry. I don't even own or want a Kayfun. Ok so I am old and old school. What I have works for me, I rebuild better each time, and it costs me pennies. Right now I just don't need 100 watts (8 is about the highest I go), the latest and greatest (that is going to change tomorrow), so I take everything I am learning to be cost effective and self sufficient and that's my story and I'm sticking to it (for now...)

I'm a total rba convert now haha. But yeah, 20, 30, 50 and now even 150 watts?? What the hell is that even for?? More than 8-8.5 in my big PT2, and more than 10 in my KFL+ and its nasty burnt juice time.. I take my amplifiers in 50 or 100 watt flavors, and I've seen what that can do the untrained tech who forgets to discharge the caps. I don't need it in my vape that close to my face!

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[MacTechVpr]

I'm a total rba convert now haha. But yeah, 20, 30, 50 and now even 150 watts?? What the hell is that even for?? More than 8-8.5 in my big PT2, and more than 10 in my KFL+ and its nasty burnt juice time.. I take my amplifiers in 50 or 100 watt flavors, and I've seen what that can do the untrained tech who forgets to discharge the caps. I don't need it in my vape that close to my face!

Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk

Congrats mono. You're doing fine. I rarely went over 7.5W first six months I was vaping, except to test higher power builds on Kangers. Never felt a need to. Even now having all kinds of variables I seldom need to exceed 12-13 in a closed tank. But for drippers i'm solid on that fresh batt at .3Ω and 60W density experience. Not for every juice mind you. Just the spectacular ones that scale well on nic when diluted (don't lose flavor). It's a different kind of richness when you're not diffusing the vape with shorts. And it's cool in that context on a t.m.c. There's a lot to be had and enjoyed on the technology being discussed here. I've tried to remain comfortable vaping on all kinds of devices at all power levels. Even enjoy some carto's under 10W on an eVic. And I can even handle 18mg nic if I need to for a test (for a short time b4 the buzz and throat hit kill it). I enjoy the options. You'll find yours too. It's not all about micros, or tension or anything but a good vape.

Good luck.

 

[Monotremata]

Hmm I still haven't tried a dripper yet but I may soon since i m cutting my nic level from 18mg to 10/12.. I had ordered 5 15mls in 18 the same day I ordered the KFL and only my PTs give out flavor with it.. I had some diy juices forum member Sando7 sent me between 10-12 I tried and finally the Kayfun keeps up!

I actually made a "good old regular" spaced coil for fun the other day but I still haven't tried it yet hah! I think I still have like one stock Kanger head left, I should go put some practice in.. Building the PT2 is actually EASIER in some respects.. All these pics on here make attys look nice and easy. Then you get your first and go "jeez those screw posts are tiiiiiiny!!!!"

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[MacTechVpr]

Hmm I still haven't tried a dripper yet but I may soon since i m cutting my nic level from 18mg to 10/12.. I had ordered 5 15mls in 18 the same day I ordered the KFL and only my PTs give out flavor with it.. I had some diy juices forum member Sando7 sent me between 10-12 I tried and finally the Kayfun keeps up!

I actually made a "good old regular" spaced coil for fun the other day but I still haven't tried it yet hah! I think I still have like one stock Kanger head left, I should go put some practice in.. Building the PT2 is actually EASIER in some respects.. All these pics on here make attys look nice and easy. Then you get your first and go "jeez those screw posts are tiiiiiiny!!!!"

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Something we all go through and a good thing. You may try blending the two for a half-way step. Makes the migration smoother and may help avert a kick back which sometimes happens when we rush to drop that nic level. Happened to me and I ended up much higher than when I started.

Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

...p.s. The first flight on the Mega turned out pretty good as Kanger's go. The predictable limit hit early on the 2nd coil getting scorch by the end of the 1st day. Kept it going another day before dropping a monster build on it. That went sour very quickly! Which had me baffled an entire day as I struggled with horrible flooding. I finally reduced it to the impossible. Bad Nextel wick. A badly handled sample I apparently mis-bagged/ labeled at some point on some outside call.

I don't know why exactly this wretched excess as my focus here has been perfecting the broad center of performance. However, there does seem to be such an enormous emphasis on power of late that it seemed unavoidable. Nothing more necessitated this than rayon I might add as I've found it to require a lot of power to keep up. Just sayin'. It got me going down this road. For what it's worth it got me to expand producing several iterations of esoteric tensioned winds including the best behaved of them which I deemed the monster. And yes, contrarian that I am, I was imprudent enough to drop one of these into a Protank proving a stabilization technique I was skeptical about actually worked from a dripper to a Protank...

The outcome astonishingly has been superlative on a PT2 with both the v1/2 bases (it does req at least the 3 x 1/16" airways). And it develops so much flow at 12W that one must be diligent to blow and dry out the tank. That said, the production and durability is the best I've experienced on any clearomizer on any straight, twisted, parallel or ribbon wire with cotton or Nextel in a Kanger. It's not an easy build even as I haven't had a failed build in the dozen or so I've done. The center post positive wind does serve to anchor the coil marvelously with impressive impact on the stability of resistance. Translation — consistency.

On that note, I experienced a blip with the 2nd monster I'm currently running on a Mega per my above p.s. [Not so] quickly I discovered I used a bad kiln sample I'd received for evaluation and solved the problem. Admittedly, I only needed to swap out the top wick to address the flooding issue (a subtle hint for you guys). Since then this combo has been running magnificently.

As I've mentioned elsewhere regarding non-Kanger t.m.c. winds, this is the cleanest build I've yet achieved. Particularly with Nextel which responds with predictable exuberance to the substantial power capacity of this wind (~20W, 14W single). As I routinely run doubles (quads) of this coil at 60W+ on drippers I'm quite certain though that it could likely handle far more in a Protank with the right power source (assuming airflow provisions, now running 15W easily on ZNA30). And the Mega would seem to be the logical choice for such high-power tests as it seals to the base far better than its predecessors. Coupled with something from the expanding variety of box mods in the 50W range. I believe there is where we'll see a happy human scale center for both the Protank and the marketplace with regards to power. There aren't too many of us that will pay upwards of 500$ for a box regardless of quality or output. Or for philosophical design principles that aren't ready for prime time be they touchy-feely buttons that misfire or illusions of cooking by temperature.

Not sure guys what all else other than that Kanger intends to give us some sophisticated tanks I believe. And yes we will be able to fashion simpler and more effective rebuild alternatives…Of that I'm certain.

So, where do we go from here? The answer, efficiency.

If...they do indeed extend the access that now seems so promising (should we start thanking Rip yet?).

We shall see.

Good luck.

 

[Monotremata]

That thing fit in the PT2 head???

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[MacTechVpr]

That thing fit in the PT2 head???

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Don't believe your lyin' eyes.



Tension is as tension does.

 

[Monotremata]

DAAAAAANG!! Man I'm stuck with 32ga or I'd try that!! A coil that big hits close to 3 ohms hehe!! I'm FINALLY ordering all my diy nic supplies next week so I think I'll grab a spool of 29ga too. Same resistance as 28 but heats quicker and not much more than 30ga!!!

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[crg31953]

I don't know why exactly this wretched excess as my focus here has been perfecting the broad center of performance. However, there does seem to be such an enormous emphasis on power of late that it seemed unavoidable. Nothing more necessitated this than rayon I might add as I've found it to require a lot of power to keep up. Just sayin'. It got me going down this road. For what it's worth it got me to expand producing several iterations of esoteric tensioned winds including the best behaved of them which I deemed the monster. And yes, contrarian that I am, I was imprudent enough to drop one of these into a Protank proving a stabilization technique I was skeptical about actually worked from a dripper to a Protank...

The outcome astonishingly has been superlative on a PT2 with both the v1/2 bases (it does req at least the 3 x 1/16" airways). And it develops so much flow at 12W that one must be diligent to blow and dry out the tank. That said, the production and durability is the best I've experienced on any clearomizer on any straight, twisted, parallel or ribbon wire with cotton or Nextel in a Kanger. It's not an easy build even as I haven't had a failed build in the dozen or so I've done. The center post positive wind does serve to anchor the coil marvelously with impressive impact on the stability of resistance. Translation — consistency.

On that note, I experienced a blip with the 2nd monster I'm currently running on a Mega per my above p.s. Quickly I discovered I used a bad kiln sample I'd received for evaluation and solved the problem. Admittedly, I only needed to swap out the top wick to address the flooding issue (a subtle hint for you guys). Since then this combo has been running magnificently.

As I've mentioned elsewhere regarding non-Kanger t.m.c. winds, this is the cleanest build I've yet achieved. Particularly with Nextel which responds with predictable exuberance to the substantial power capacity of this wind (~20W, 14W single). As I routinely run doubles (quads) of this coil at 60W+ on drippers I'm quite certain though that it could likely handle far more in a Protank with the right power source (assuming airflow provisions, now running 15W easily on ZNA30). And the Mega would seem to be the logical choice for such high-power tests as it seals to the base far better than its predecessors. Coupled with something from the expanding variety of box mods in the 50W range. I believe there is where we'll see a happy human scale center for both the Protank and the marketplace with regards to power. There aren't too many of us that will pay upwards of 500$ for a box regardless of quality or output. Or for philosophical design principles that aren't ready for prime time be they touchy-feely buttons that misfire or illusions of cooking by temperature.

Not sure guys what all else other than that Kanger intends to give us some sophisticated tanks I believe. And yes we will be able to fashion simpler and more effective rebuild alternatives…Of that I'm certain.

So, where do we go from here? The answer, efficiency.

If...they do indeed extend the access that now seems so promising (should we start thanking Rip yet?).

We shall see.

Good luck.

That is one H..L of a coil you have there Mac!! I'll have to give that a try one of these days.

Right now I am still playing with my RxW. I have it in my KFL, 1.2 ohm coil, 2.5mm I.D. with 3mm RxW wick. It is working extremely well in that device!

I am tempted to build an odd ball configuration to try the 2mm RxW in one of my KPT2's. I know it isn't according to our normal TMC but I'm looking at building an oblong micro and pulling two pieces of wick through it.

Opinions??

Vape On My Friends!

 

[MacTechVpr]

DAAAAAANG!! Man I'm stuck with 32ga or I'd try that!! A coil that big hits close to 3 ohms hehe!! I'm FINALLY ordering all my diy nic supplies next week so I think I'll grab a spool of 29ga too. Same resistance as 28 but heats quicker and not much more than 30ga!!!

Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk

Well that should be the case if it were a single…but then it wouldn't derive the efficiency I was after (stabilization). It actually runs just shy of 1.5Ω and about the best vape experience I've achieved with dense tobacco on a Protank. Remarkable for a unified tensioned dual, the firing on my ZNA at 15W is practically instant. The DNA reads it transparently and it just pops! That was my great surprise as I started testing these this past Summer. And that's kinda what I was looking for a higher (flow) power solution for the high-capacity Protank running on VV/VW.

The design goal here was and has always been to put as much usable wire coverage on Nextel as practicable whether for a simple wind a beginner can score or the more advanced user.

It fits the bill for the latter nicely. I've got four Protanks running in front of me right now with the identical eliq blend, two are Nextel t.m.c.'s and two the silica standard Kanger dual-coil and a second a little known vendor option, a Smoktech ribbon 1.7Ω for the KPT. The silica heads predictably went sour with regular scorch periods starting in the first 24-hours abated only by the need to scale back power from the starting point of 12W (yeah they all taste great BIG VAPOR>>>at the vapeshop). The t.m.c. is holding it's own producing vapor on the scale approaching the monster output but the density and flavor of the big guy are just phenomenal.

There is fairly NO comparison between what we can do with a proper electrical coil on this thread and what factory is.

And why I've seriously undertaken looking at this solution now that high variable power has entered the mix. There are a lot of us that enjoy the clouds sure 'nough but were after the richly textured juices and their flavor potential in the end. If the good results continue that may lead to further exploration on this thread or perhaps a spin-off.

If you undertake this mission mono we will disavow any knowledge of our suggestion. You are in the experimental zone on your own.



(Getting that tension wrap down on singles is essential. Shorts at high-power on a PT are no fun.)

You were warned.

Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

That is one H..L of a coil you have there Mac!! I'll have to give that a try one of these days.

Right now I am still playing with my RxW. I have it in my KFL, 1.2 ohm coil, 2.5mm I.D. with 3mm RxW wick. It is working extremely well in that device!

I am tempted to build an odd ball configuration to try the 2mm RxW in one of my KPT2's. I know it isn't according to our normal TMC but I'm looking at building an oblong micro and pulling two pieces of wick through it.

Opinions??

Vape On My Friends!

Thanks for noticing. Catch my above post.

Seek efficiency. Oblongs tend to distort and harder to attain uniform adhesion b4 pulsing (been there done that). Let us know if you do, they're purdy.

For the time being I'll be sharing the mechanical techniques and they're particular for creating these on a first come first serve basis subject to time availability. It'll take up too much real estate on this thread and I'm swamped with projects. PM me if you're interested in a trial of this wind. It is a bit tricky but super stable which you'll need at higher wattage.

Good luck.



p.s. Glad to hear of your success with ceramic. I have it in the majority of my devices or I just couldn't keep up. It's a Godsend.

 

[MacTechVpr]

---

Anyone know of any good YouTube videos showing wrapping a tension coil with a pin vise?
I'm assuming the side of the wire spool provides tension
I have a Gizmo and a coil jig

Thanks for asking tob. I wholeheartedly endorse both methods. There are simply days I can't wind. Motor control issues at times have me applying too much or too little strength. And the most important aspect of tension winding is creating with strain after all. However, I feel that the precise ability of our brains to sense a fish nibbling at a line 35 feet away with the slightest touch of a finger tip is the amazing thing we capitalize on with a hand wind. Unfortunately, I haven't made a video. I'd like to encourage lots of folks make one. There's probably a gazillion handhold styles that work and perhaps many better than my own. And I use several to account for thickness of the wire for example.

The basic idea is to hold the coil upright in one hand resting on a flat surface and turning the vise grips consistently while it lays on the edge of the spool. Setting it on the edge provides an incredible lock of stability between the point of wire originating at the spool and the point where it's being strained onto the bit. A relatively slight pull in the direction away from the spool with the winding hand using the thumb to support the pin vise is usually all that's needed to stretch the wire. It is that short section of wire between bit and spool over which you are imparting the exact control of tension. Sort of like stretching a rubber band. And as you twist the vise it's that level of strain that's being recorded in the metal's state, a sort of memory if you will of it's own geometry as it was wound. It will always want to remain that coil. Is is this which nature is allowing us a mastery of, the closest proximity of objects. And it's tension (strain) which gets us there.

If you follow my above explanation then you may understand why simply taking a needle nose and pulling a wind closer and tight is not the same thing. You apply tension to do it, yes; but, the tension at each turn is not uniformly imparted. It is forming and not strain. We know this empirically, by direct observation. Such a wind will want to return to it's originally formed state and will spread. To get to a microcoil formed coils will require further force, torching, etc. The memory of it's state must be imparted into the wire and not externally. There are lots of ways to do this such as torquing the wire. There's one fellow with a youtube out there who didn't realize the difference. And such methods lack the consistency that our brains can apply to a simple hand wind.

Many think that just tight makes a microcoil. Unfortunately that's not the case. Following super_X_drifter's imaginative conceptualization of the contact coil few realized that microgaps remained in their wind. These effectively leave the result a close contact coil which is not quite yet the continuous short that we're trying to achieve. To the extent of these imperfections you have the same propensity for actual shorts (hot segments) as with an eccentric conventional coil. The better the tension applied the less this is so. And the close contact wind lacks the performance efficiency of enhanced thermal transfer that is evident once we've gotten the coil "sticky". Just many were not realizing this and still don't. The optimal effect of a contact coil occurs when the wire is in it's closest proximity and actually begins to stretch. Oxidizing the coil optimally is then possible. That's what tension accomplishes. Getting us there.

Good luck tob and all you here.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I posted a summary of all manner of winding tools and accessories on this thread post…

A pin vise is han-dy...

Hope helpful.

Good luck.

 

[crg31953]

Thanks Mac, you're always helpful!

Only kidding, Mac is the Guru of coils!

Vape On My Friends!

PS: No offense cig!

PSS: Looks like you've been using that tool as a prydriver!

 

[MacTechVpr]

PSS: Looks like you've been using that tool as a prydriver!

No, I don't always use tools for their intended purpose. How do you think I got in this mess?!!!







Good luck.