Thanks for the ack D.
Posted an answer here...We are so marvelously prepared to craft our own vape...
Good luck all.
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Thanks for the ack D.
Posted an answer here...We are so marvelously prepared to craft our own vape...
Good luck all.
Thanks Mac! Now, I have to ask about the slotted pins: what exactly do you mean? I have a few different versions of the assemblies, and the pins are all slotted. The main coherence being some are slightly tapered at the bottom where others are flat - hopefully this picture illustrates that.
As for airflow I've been meaning to drill out and enlarge the holes on the base of the PT mini and the EVODs slightly; I use carbide drill bits for destroying hard drives for work which should be fine. Can the pin holes also be drilled out?
Pardon my sleep-typing.
EVOD, that's what you got. No, I was talkin about the "notched" pins that come with the PT3 heads (I believe). Just lookin' at your pic though, there does seem to be a slight diff in dia between your two samples. If so, dare I state the obvious here. And yes, you can definitely try drilling out to a 16th. Meantime test the max carefully of the cotton your wind will take. Whatever that is is not going to be enough for what a t.m.c. can deliver. So more cotton is better. This will allow you to apply more power and vaporize more completely. To thin the wick for the power and you'll dry out in close proximity to the wire even if you have good flow. Some may end up seeping as viscosity is reduced. That's why you can see gurgling from too much and too little power. Too much or too little wick.
For the EVOD tho I'd try to get it stable at a slightly higher res above 1.5Ω until I got the balance right. CoilToy and Steam-Engine are your friends. You can always get the temp you like with a bit more power (less amps tho, good thing).
Given all the flooding, prolly don't need to say, but keep the base dry as you test. Once I got t.m.c.'s runnin' best I always refilled at half tank and inspect/dry out as needed. You can blow out the wick to some extent as I describe in my blog. This helps reduce the saturation of you're slogged. Once KGD gets to that really slogged jelly state, it won't convey efficiently. Don't give it a second thought and replace it. Which brings me to another possibility and that's the juice chemistry. Is your problem juice related. Something also to track.
Despite all the hoopla re high PG juices are a problem for clearo's. When vaped hard or under power it's very easy to get seeping to the 510 base and connection. In all honestly testing many, many of these builds on clearo's I did not venture below 70/30 PG/VG. It proved to me rather pointless early on. So if you're on the low PG side, consider upping the VG level. Try the test by adding some VG to your brew.
Good power conductivity to the wick gets the fullest vaporization out of your build. That means matching juice flow to power at the wire. A matching wind diameter to wick density and that will give you the broadest power potential. More wire and surface area will give you the most heat to play with. To sum up, about as much wick as the wind will take is the good starting point (not the least, an invitation for trouble). Somewhere in there and likely towards the higher density will be your match for the juices you favor.
Poke us again let us know how you make out.
Good luck.
p.s. If you have a bunch of these assemblies put aside the ones you encounter a problem on. I've gone through countless hundreds from dozens of sources. They are not uniform. As they get older fit-up may go bad. Dimensions may be or may go slightly off. Threading not seal. Segregate the ones that work better.
After a day use the 32g twisted coil was leaking like a screen and had to be removed. It seemed to take the same amount of cotton wick as the others but I didn't make any measurements or comparisons. I also switched the vertical coil from the PT2 mini to the big Protank, which is on a Kbox at 13w. Seems to perform much better there than on an Ego battery.
Of course after all that I still had to re-wick my Plume Veil. [emoji1]
Of course after all that I still had to re-wick my Plume Veil. [emoji1]
Yeah heard that B.
Verticals are prone to instability because of the lack of symmetry (uneven lead length) which can present uneven heat distribution and is more prone to hot spots or leads. Not to mention the difficulties matching up the wicking density to boot.
Twisted's even if tensioned rarely can be wound coherent enough to go micro. By that I mean exhibit the high levels of heat transfer to the wick that micro's do. I seldom manage to get much more than a quarter of them to stop running hot under power. If the efficiency level is low, you will have broad differences in temp distribution in such a coil.
Over saturation is a strong indicator of precisely the above even if wick density is good.
However, vertical externally wicked builds aren't microcoils in operation as introduced by super_X_drifter. An interesting experiment requiring very tight builds I'm not sure I could do consistently or even advise you on. They more resemble carto's in function, never exceptional in performance and prone to the same failure complaints the microcoil fundamentally seeks to address. The very definition of a micro is dependent on optimal internal contact to wicking media and it is largely from that which enhanced thermal transfer occurs. So removing that object for the energy, the close wire contact inducing close thermal proximity, what you have left with a vertical is more, much more, heat dispersion than vaporization. I know of the multitude of validations of external wicking. Not doubting peeps are getting those results but not at the same power or with anywhere the relative vapor density. Just don't see it as physically possible.
If you enjoy the build there are a couple of great threads out there on the experiment. Think I've pointed to them on this thread in the past.
Honestly B, a great vape in a T3s or any Kanger clearo can happen with 28 fairly simply with a straightforward t.m.c. Running two right now, one in a Mega the other in a Subtank Mini.
If you're interested in getting a straightforward t.m.c. stable. Hit me up here. And I'd be pleased to help you with a more complex build in the twisted lead center post (below) for clearo's by far the most stable hard hitting circuit I've ever put in a vaporizer. I managed to build a 31 AWG 3-lead for the Protank last year which blows away any twisted I tried in a clearo. And by far more stable than any two lead. Running a 29 AWG version @ 25W which is rockin' my densest tobacco right now in the Mini OCC.
What can I tell ya? Why I ran my project. Build a stable circuit that works as the cornerstone in a clearo. I think it needs to start there for us to make sense of any other result.
I'm really kind of wasted on talkin' about so many almost-there approaches that have been tossed around on ECF over the past year just confusing the issue of sound electrical principle. If that sounds a little flip please don't take it as such. I'm just most interested in getting folks there quicker.
Best of luck to ya B in whatever ya wanna try.
Hey Mac-
Tried your new wicking technique yesterday with my re-wick. After a breakin yesterday, this is rocking!
Thanks for the idea/tip!
Tried your new wicking technique yesterday with my re-wick. After a breakin yesterday, this is rocking!
Thanks for the idea/tip!
Really didn't see much sense in the factory approach. Too much risk of exposing fiber ends in the core and seeping. On the other hand merely cutting them shorter didn't seem to help as some others have noted. I think the very slight pressure inward really helps. It did for me and glad to hear the confirmation.
Now to coin the common phrase…YMMV if the coil is shorter (or smaller Ø). The darned thing might sag.
That was my only concern.
Meanwhile I've been workin' this first OCC attempt at 7/64" aggressively for several days with one of my densest tobacco's, the popular Boba's (100% VG) straight up 6mg no dilution at power ranging from 22.5-25W with extremely satisfying results at all airflow/density settings. The fatter chimney does make this a very attractive option for rebuilding.
Now my question is, did you build the twisted center-post? I'd love to see that.
Good luck.
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32ga, 10 wraps on a 1/16" mandrel, 1.8Ω dual coil with 3 strands pulled from 2mm twisted silica doubled over is my favorite build in the protank when I have time to waste playing with coils. Otherwise for a quick build, 30ga 11 wraps on 5/64" for 2.6Ω with 4 strands silica doubled over.
Looks Great!
32ga, 10 wraps on a 1/16" mandrel, 1.8Ω dual coil with 3 strands pulled from 2mm twisted silica doubled over is my favorite build in the protank when I have time to waste playing with coils. Otherwise for a quick build, 30ga 11 wraps on 5/64" for 2.6Ω with 4 strands silica doubled over.
Well, you never know what wire you're gonna get at vape shops I guess. The 32g twisted kanthal coils I've been using have been nichrome or something else all along. Bought 32g kanthal from temcosupplies and the res came out too high as compared to the previous wire. Should have known....dork. no wonder the Steamengine values were so far off....dork. Can't believe I let this get me again....dork.
Hey cig welcome back. And too Nichrome as an alloy is significantly different. Kanthal is optimized by design as a resistance wire to exude an alumina layer. That is what makes it ideal as a vaporizer element. I have only done limited studies on alternative wire or monitored the efforts of others as they tried to make best use of tension. And although strain will aid in building rigidity and symmetry into those alternatives like nickel, Nichrome and others in lieu of compression it does little or nothing to optimize or enhance the alumina creation process.
Look there's a very straightforward mission goal for the process I introduced (based on Kanthal)…to guide folks with a simple consistent technique for establishing a baseline center of performance. An individualized sweet spot approach to rebuilding. Scientific practice requires a frame of reference for any meaningful conclusion to be drawn or reliable result to be achieved.
And what's that attainable baseline going to be? For most of us? Esoteric mystery wire? Big buck regulated devices? Government regulation?
I regret it's taken me 1400 pages to do it; but, I'm a slow learner.
Good luck.
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What the heck causes hot spots?
Hi @Taylor7617, nice to see ya.
Have you seen anyone on ECF explain WHY vaporization circuits exhibit hotspots?
No, huh?
People have been struggling with hot spots on open (spaced) winds since the beginning of vaping. Eccentric improperly prepared Kanthal winds aren't a cure. They've been the problem since the beginning of vaping.
I've been writing about this phenomenon for almost two years. Kanthal is a wire grade especially designed to be used as a heating element. It's been infused with alum oxide as an alloy for a reason. That reason? Oxidation (insulation). When extruded under electrical pulsing (heating) it reacts with oxygen to form an alumina ceramic layer twice the melting point of the metal itself. It also is quite thermally conductive which enhances the wire's ability to distribute heat to the wick more evenly. Another reason hot spots are mitigated.
And why does Kanthal wire vary in temperature?
All metal including wire exhibit internal differences in strain compression and surface structural composition. Kanthal's no different. Winding coils made from it with enough tension (strain) forces a relief of those internal stresses and a balancing of the internal orientation of molecules bring them closer to a natural state of rest (equilibrium). When accomplished in a uniformly tight context electron flow normalizes as well as temperature.
So tension winding to the closest turn-to-turn proximity (adhesion) achieves two things. It first stabilizes the molecular geometry that predisposes the wire to shorting. Secondly, it insulates the wire surface with ceramic insulation to inhibit what inconsistency of strain that may remain.
Hope you will give tension winding a shot and as always glad to help.
Good luck.
Hi @Taylor7617, nice to see ya.
Have you seen anyone on ECF explain WHY vaporization circuits exhibit hotspots?
No, huh?
People have been struggling with hot spots on open (spaced) winds since the beginning of vaping. Eccentric improperly prepared Kanthal winds aren't a cure. They've been the problem since the beginning of vaping.
I've been writing about this phenomenon for almost two years. Kanthal is a wire grade especially designed to be used as a heating element. It's been infused with alum oxide as an alloy for a reason. That reason? Oxidation (insulation). When extruded under electrical pulsing (heating) it reacts with oxygen to form an alumina ceramic layer twice the melting point of the metal itself. It also is quite thermally conductive which enhances the wire's ability to distribute heat to the wick more evenly. Another reason hot spots are mitigated.
And why does Kanthal wire vary in temperature?
All metal including wire exhibit internal differences in strain compression and surface structural composition. Kanthal's no different. Winding coils made from it with enough tension (strain) forces a relief of those internal stresses and a balancing of the internal orientation of molecules bring them closer to a natural state of rest (equilibrium). When accomplished in a uniformly tight context electron flow normalizes as well as temperature.
So tension winding to the closest turn-to-turn proximity (adhesion) achieves two things. It first stabilizes the molecular geometry that predisposes the wire to shorting. Secondly, it insulates the wire surface with ceramic insulation to inhibit what inconsistency of strain that may remain.
Hope you will give tension winding a shot and as always glad to help.
Good luck.
Hi Mac,
Finally got the #50 drill blanks and the coils I've made work well. Had to wait on retirement check to kick in.
I have been using KGD cotton wicking and it works ok but I tend to burn it at times. Y'all have been using a better material for wicks and I'm wondering what it is and the diameter for a #50 drill blank rolled coil? What fits inside the coil in other words?
Thank you.
Finally got the #50 drill blanks and the coils I've made work well. Had to wait on retirement check to kick in.
I have been using KGD cotton wicking and it works ok but I tend to burn it at times. Y'all have been using a better material for wicks and I'm wondering what it is and the diameter for a #50 drill blank rolled coil? What fits inside the coil in other words?
Thank you.
Hi @Bill's Magic Vapor. Know you contributed to this chart way back when the t.m.c. kicked off. Wasn't it @pjmarkert and his resistance program that inspired it? You wouldn't happen to have the original link would ya? Hope you're doing well Bill
Good luck.
Hi @dodari and congrats on getting that in. Here's a chart I think you'll find useful. It's been bangin' around since I first introduced the t.m.c. and put together by @pjmarkert and @Bill's Magic Vapor…
Microcoils and Resistance Chart.pdf
The inside diameter (i.d.) is 1.778mm. Just shy of 1.8mm which is the width of the slot in the Protank and most contemporary clearomizers until recently. #50 wire gauge lets you put the max wick in without fiddling with modifying the slot. More wick would be lovely for PT2/3 coils but not enough airflow to really feed it. Why I tended to be skeptical of a lot of posters early on this thread with big builds.
Getting the density right is always the challenge. Particularly for tanks. Overdriving the wick is common. Either too tightly packed, or too much power. Less common if you have built some t.m.c.'s successfully is that you're still leaving gaps or loose end turns, a pos lead hanger stickin' out of the pin…or the like driving the coil unexpectedly hot. Last if juice is dense, the coil could be saturating rather fast like a soggy sponge and power's just cookin' the juice. Vaporization slows when flow stops. In other words, it could be either dry or sopped up.
Before getting to that you need to look for the post or on my blog re blowing out the wick. It might help even if cotton just a bit to keep the assembly dry-er longer. All old 510 style assemblies go soggy. Nature of the beast.
Finally, there is a wick material made of highly heat resistant 3M thermal ceramic insulation called Nextel XC-132 (RBA Supplies). In my opinion the most powerful wicking media for vaporizers extant. It fits the 1.778mm Ø precisely. While I prefer KGD for flavor in the short term, Nextel's ceramic fiber weave breaks in and outperforms it. It can last many weeks with moderately pigmented juices. Lot less re-wicking and you can just rinse and/or dry burn these for reals once or twice a week and off ya go.
Running Tribeca one of my long time cool vape tobacco flavors with a single 9x28AWG @1.6Ω in a PT Mega. Not a cloud blower but plenty of density and flavor with better air than the PT. Runs comfortably anywhere from 12-22.5W. Another advantage, the wide power handling, for ceramic. But the PT with the slot AFC base will do nicely as well and I run with these tootie puffers as reliable backups for the mech drippers I have with me all the time.
Just bang on the door here anytime you get hung. Big thread. Keyword search it and it's a gold mine of stuff added by many.
Best of luck do. I'll be here.
What the heck causes hot spots?
Hi @Taylor7617, nice to see ya.
Have you seen anyone on ECF explain WHY vaporization circuits exhibit hotspots?
No, huh?
People have been struggling with hot spots on open (spaced) winds since the beginning of vaping. Eccentric improperly prepared Kanthal winds aren't a cure. They've been the problem since the beginning of vaping.
I've been writing about this phenomenon for almost two years. Kanthal is a wire grade especially designed to be used as a heating element. It's been infused with alum oxide as an alloy for a reason. That reason? Oxidation (insulation). When extruded under electrical pulsing (heating) it reacts with oxygen to form an alumina ceramic layer twice the melting point of the metal itself. It also is quite thermally conductive which enhances the wire's ability to distribute heat to the wick more evenly. Another reason hot spots are mitigated.
And why does Kanthal wire vary in temperature?
All metal including wire exhibit internal differences in strain compression and surface structural composition. Kanthal's no different. Winding coils made from it with enough tension (strain) forces a relief of those internal stresses and a balancing of the internal orientation of molecules bring them closer to a natural state of rest (equilibrium). When accomplished in a uniformly tight context electron flow normalizes as well as temperature.
So tension winding to the closest turn-to-turn proximity (adhesion) achieves two things. It first stabilizes the molecular geometry that predisposes the wire to shorting. Secondly, it insulates the wire surface with ceramic insulation to inhibit what inconsistency of strain that may remain.
Hope you will give tension winding a shot and as always glad to help.
Good luck.
Gobbledygook! My reply to Taylors' question on the thread you crossposted this from was correct, hot spots and hot legs are caused by electrically shorted turns in an unwicked contact coil. Spaced coils with good solid electrical terminations never hot spot or hot leg when pulsed, can't, because the turns aren't touching (shorting) before or after alumina forms.
Also the change of resistance of a given length of kanthal wire before and after oxidation (alumina formation) is for all intents and purposes unmeasurable. I can't even measure the difference on my $700.00 lab meter.
That said, you may be referring to bad wick to wire contact caused by eccentric turns when using the term hot spot....don't know. Tension winding does virtually eliminate that for both contact and spaced winds but that's not what Taylor was asking about.
To be fair, you could have posted your response to Taylor's question there instead of crossposting it here. Just sayn'
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Am I really missing something by not getting a Kanger Sub ohm Tank? And can you rebuild the wicks? Sorry if it has been talked about but just now tuning in to this area
I haven't used my protank variants in 4 + months since getting a Lemo and STminis. Don't even use my Lemo any more honestly; too hard to fill.
Yes, you can rebuild the occ wick heads but the rba works so good I don't even bother. Wicking lasts seemingly forever in the rba....about 60ml. Flavor is close to dripper. Super easy to build on. No leaking, no gurgling and no flooding. Rba works great lung hitting from 25-30w. So yeah Channel, you are missing out on a good thing imo. Time to upgrade?
Well I ordered a Lemo because I felt like I would like the easy build. Truth is a rarely use a Protank anymore either except for long drives. Mostly I use Taifuns 2's and LOVE those.
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