Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

[Shawn Hoefer]

I've just been lurking, but finding a lot of good info here. I will (someday) go back and read even more of it. I have 2 Davide tanks rigged to use the PT coil heads (can also use Aspire BDC / BVC), as well as a Subtank Mini. I run them on everything from eGos to a 26650 mech. I've only been building for a few weeks, but I've already managed dual micro coils, and a slew of macro coils, and a diamond coil. Not messed with twisted or fused or clapton or zipper... I look at some of those builds and think "man, that's a lot of time wasted that could have been spent vaping."

I want to thank those that have said that sub ohming is NOT a requirement. Not only can sub ohming put a fist time vaper on the floor (ask me how I know), but can also create safety issues, IMHO, when relative newcomers try to slap some .01 coil they saw on YouTube into their *fire battery powered mech. Keep It Simple Stupid works for me...

 

[MacTechVpr]

I've just been lurking, but finding a lot of good info here. I will (someday) go back and read even more of it. I have 2 Davide tanks rigged to use the PT coil heads (can also use Aspire BDC / BVC), as well as a Subtank Mini. I run them on everything from eGos to a 26650 mech. I've only been building for a few weeks, but I've already managed dual micro coils, and a slew of macro coils, and a diamond coil. Not messed with twisted or fused or clapton or zipper... I look at some of those builds and think "man, that's a lot of time wasted that could have been spent vaping."

I want to thank those that have said that sub ohming is NOT a requirement. Not only can sub ohming put a fist time vaper on the floor (ask me how I know), but can also create safety issues, IMHO, when relative newcomers try to slap some .01 coil they saw on YouTube into their *fire battery powered mech. Keep It Simple Stupid works for me...

Right!??? And it's not necessary. We've known for years what a properly functional Kanthal wind is. It's built to be oxidized. We know what a microcoil is and how it optimizes power to the vaporization zone by concentration. Now we can perfect both using strain to achieve a tensioned wound microcoil, a practically perfected vaporization element. And just as you suggest, a better control of our vape temperature.

Why accept malfunction, disfunction or the inadequate?

And you're right at any resistance level a tensioned micro's actual vapor output is higher. More production, more vapor and flavor. Result, you don't need as low a resistance to get where you want to go.

The truth is Shawn that the average users of eccentric open winds and improperly completed micro's are missing out on a great vape! Or the ability to hit it again consistently when they build and find it. Or how about the most common…it worked great for a day (but I did it just like the video).

They simply don't know or believe there is a difference because they've never seen it. Some try with only half the story they got elsewhere here or in the real world and never complete a proper coil. You've gotta go to the source to really see how simply easier it is.

There are a handful of places where folks really collaborated and contributed to a thought out process on rebulding…the Protank MicroCoil Discussion!! happens to be one of these. And out of the 150 thousand or so viewers since the microcoil took root there are always subscribers around willing to help. Because there's more to using a truly functional microcoil than the wind.

As you know winding a tensioned coil is actually easier as repeatable rather than reinventing the wheel every time. What keeps so many from getting to that great vape beats me. <shrug> All the issues we have with our devices are so much simpler to address when the wind is no longer the problem.

Thanks for the ack Shawn. Glad you looked in.

Good luck to ya.

 

[Taylor7617]

Mac - appreciate the commentary and knowledge. Based off of your replies, your preference is a single wire tension wrapped, correct? I understand there is consistency of getting exactly the same thing time and time again...and makes sense. Just inquiring on your preferred coil....

 

[MacTechVpr]

Mac - appreciate the commentary and knowledge. Based off of your replies, your preference is a single wire tension wrapped, correct? I understand there is consistency of getting exactly the same thing time and time again...and makes sense. Just inquiring on your preferred coil....

I use all kinds of coils. And research how to use tension to do it. Not just in the wind itself. But the effect of strain in the mechanics of installation and wire preparation. So yeah, I prefer strain. LOL. As an important tool.

Like I said T, if we can get a straight wire plain jane working at optimal performance, it's the thermometer. We can use strain on a lot of different types of winds. However, tensioned micro's have some advantages no other coils have. I've written a few pages on it here.

These days I just tell folks go for the vape. When you wind and build that first perfected t.m.c. you know you're never gonna run out of 'em. No guessin' any part of that. And I can't find a faster way to get there. That's my answer.

What's the worst that could happen? You spend 10$ or so on a PV and a spool of wire. Both of which you'll end up using big time.

Hopefully you'll build a bunch of 'em, compare 'em like Shawn did and so give other vapers a shot at the best.

That's why I'm here. Waiting for that to happen over and over.

No promises T. The vape's only as good as your build.

Good luck T. Here when you need us.

 

[MacTechVpr]

For reference…lifted from my answer Dewinding tensioned coils, the basics...

p.s. Don't forget to de-wind the first couple'a three turns. They're usually not up to the same even strain as the rest.

This is where I got stuck... how to unwind those turns successfully?

If nothing else you need to eliminate the section of the wire anchored at the collet and usually a half turn or more. Try this…


° With the coil still on the bit, flip the bit with the last wound turn against the collet face;

° Using your fingers (thumb and index) tweeze the starting turn wire with light tension (like gift ribbon);

° Notice that the grip of the turn on the bit is relaxed depending on how much tension you used;

° With practice you can apply tension to remove quarter, half or full turns; until,

° You arrive at your desired wind count. Voila!

An alternative which helps with thicker gauges is to use a light needle nose. Worshop tools won't afford you the control you need even with thick wire. Some users believe the heavier tools will let them apply tension. That's not the case. Adding more tension at the end turn or turns than originally input may destabilize the entire coil and you'll get uneven heat distribution or even a hot coil and/or leads. If that happens during dewinding best not to fiddle with it. It takes seconds to wind another and you deserve a better vape.

However, again with a bit of practice you can lightly tension off end turns as above with a forceps or light needle nose. This is helpful in balancing the end turn tension which may be required with thicker wire.

Always support the spine or back of the coil, opposite the leads, as you make any adjustment. This will help preserve adhesion of turns, their relationship to each other, which if altered breaks the wind. It will retain the altered shape.

Small moves vj. You gals have a huge advantage over us guys with the precision fine finger motion control you have. Outshoot us at the range every day of the week, for one. Add a smidgeon of patience and you'll have one fine looking and functional coil.

Good luck and just nudge as you did if you need a hand.

 

[chanelvaps]

I do use a mini pair of needle nose (jewelers type) for unwinding and for fastening to post.

For reference…lifted from my answer Dewinding tensioned coils, the basics...






If nothing else you need to eliminate the section of the wire anchored at the collet and usually a half turn or more. Try this…


° With the coil still on the bit, flip the bit with the last wound turn against the collet face;

° Using your fingers (thumb and index) tweeze the starting turn wire with light tension (like gift ribbon);

° Notice that the grip of the turn on the bit is relaxed depending on how much tension you used;

° With practice you can apply tension to remove quarter, half or full turns; until,

° You arrive at your desired wind count. Voila!

An alternative which helps with thicker gauges is to use a light needle nose. Worshop tools won't afford you the control you need even with thick wire. Some users believe the heavier tools will let them apply tension. That's not the case. Adding more tension at the end turn or turns than originally input may destabilize the entire coil and you'll get uneven heat distribution or even a hot coil and/or leads. If that happens during dewinding best not to fiddle with it. It takes seconds to wind another and you deserve a better vape.

However, again with a bit of practice you can lightly tension off end turns as above with a forceps or light needle nose. This is helpful in balancing the end turn tension which may be required with thicker wire.

Always support the spine or back of the coil, opposite the leads, as you make any adjustment. This will help preserve adhesion of turns, their relationship to each other, which if altered breaks the wind. It will retain the altered shape.

Small moves vj. You gals have a huge advantage over us guys with the precision fine finger motion control you have. Outshoot us at the range every day of the week, for one. Add a smidgeon of patience and you'll have one fine looking and functional coil.

Good luck and just nudge as you did if you need a hand.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I do use a mini pair of needle nose (jewelers type) for unwinding and for fastening to post.

Baby steps C, works like magic. Mother nature does all the heavy lifting in the wind. Just need to protect that t.m.c. investment with a little t.l.c. Barely touch a coil these days relying on a ceramic tweezer for most anything and the most delicate of squeezes for any dark zones revealing imperfections in the wind. I find I'm working far less having lost the mindset that I have to perfect them and let the physics do it. Same thing with wicking. The coil geometry sets the limit of power and flow. I match that with enough wick. As much as it can reasonably hold. Let power regulate what goes through it. No sense fighting the hurricane.

If we gauged right with our design as to what the tank needs…it's heaven. And so's our vape.

Good luck all.

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

Will be rebuilding my first PT coil tonight. I don't think it'll be that rough as I've already managed a Kanger BDC rebuild...

​

 

[MacTechVpr]

Will be rebuilding my first PT coil tonight. I don't think it'll be that rough as I've already managed a Kanger BDC rebuild...

​

If you can build into the typical clearo housing like a PT you can build anything Shawn. If you haven't built your first t.m.c. yet or have questions on how to get there give us a shout. Glad to help.



Good luck.

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

If you can build into the typical clearo housing like a PT you can build anything Shawn. If you haven't built your first t.m.c. yet or have questions on how to get there give us a shout. Glad to help.



Good luck.

Thanks!

​

 

[dodari]

Hi,

I'm just beginning to try and rebuild my Kanger PT II attys. I hope to land in the 2 Ohm range. I have a couple of questions.

What diameter should I use to wrap the coil? I have a little bit of experience wrapping coils for a Reo I have, TMC style.

Should I try 30ga. or 32ga. Kanthal A-1, I have some of either?

Thanks for the help.

 

[chanelvaps]

I use 30 gauge and I use 1.7 diameter. I do 7-8 wraps and get 1.7-1.8.
A lot of other folks on here use 29 gauge

Hi,

I'm just beginning to try and rebuild my Kanger PT II attys. I hope to land in the 2 Ohm range. I have a couple of questions.

What diameter should I use to wrap the coil? I have a little bit of experience wrapping coils for a Reo I have, TMC style.

Should I try 30ga. or 32ga. Kanthal A-1, I have some of either?

Thanks for the help.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Hi,

I'm just beginning to try and rebuild my Kanger PT II attys. I hope to land in the 2 Ohm range. I have a couple of questions.

What diameter should I use to wrap the coil? I have a little bit of experience wrapping coils for a Reo I have, TMC style.

Should I try 30ga. or 32ga. Kanthal A-1, I have some of either?

Thanks for the help.

Welcome do. 30AWG will do ya just fine. 29's a bit easier to handle and a bit more durable. Let's you drop res a little But 30's fire a bit faster. What are you winding on? It will make a difference you know.

Good luck.



p.s. Let us know how you make out finding "sticky".

 

[dodari]

Welcome do. 30AWG will do ya just fine. 29's a bit easier to handle and a bit more durable. Let's you drop res a little But 30's fire a bit faster. What are you winding on? It will make a difference you know.

Good luck.



p.s. Let us know how you make out finding "sticky".

I'm winding on Dremel bits. I tried 1/16" and 5/64" on 3 different stripped(factory coil guts removed) PT II atty bases and only the 1/16" bit will go clear down the slots, the 5/64" bit will not. I guess that makes the choice. I can lock the shaft on the Dremel and then turn the whole tool(battery powered).

Umm, dummy me, what is "sticky"?

Thanks

 

[Katya]

Hi Dodari!

What I have learned on this thread: per Mac, 0.07 inches or 1.78 mm rod is ideal, but hard to find. If you're using drill bits, 1/16 is very close--1.58 mm. The next one up, 5/64 (1.98 mm) is already too big and the bit doesn't fit in the slot.

I found an old nail in the garage that is bigger than 1/16 bit but still fits in the slot, so I used that one.

I like 30 and 29 gauge--32 is impossible to work with, IMO.

Just my

 

[Katya]

Umm, dummy me, what is "sticky"?

Thanks

(snip) Get it to "sticky" (where it's pullin' in on itself) is all you need. We all have to work on finding that spot. Developing the muscle memory as part of the technique. It varies with wire, kit and tensioning approach but it's right in the middle of hot on both sides. Small moves and a little practice gets ya there.

Good luck all.

And here:

Post 1806.

 

[dodari]

Hi Dodari!

What I have learned on this thread: per Mac, 0.07 inches or 1.78 mm rod is ideal, but hard to find. If you're using drill bits, 1/16 is very close--1.58 mm. The next one up, 5/64 (1.98 mm) is already too big and the bit doesn't fit in the slot.

I found an old nail in the garage that is bigger than 1/16 bit but still fits in the slot, so I used that one.

I like 30 and 29 gauge--32 is impossible to work with, IMO.

Just my

Digging around my disorganized collection of "stuff" I found my pin vise set. The largest bit mics. at 1.64 mm, I'll try that and use 30ga. Kanthal. The bit does fit down in the slot and mics. a tiny bit larger than the 1/16" bit.

Thanks.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I'm winding on Dremel bits. I tried 1/16" and 5/64" on 3 different stripped(factory coil guts removed) PT II atty bases and only the 1/16" bit will go clear down the slots, the 5/64" bit will not. I guess that makes the choice. I can lock the shaft on the Dremel and then turn the whole tool(battery powered).

Umm, dummy me, what is "sticky"?

Thanks

Sticky is where you want to go do. It's the point in physics that the wires are as close together as nature permits. Optimizes concentration of the wires on the wick. But more importantly it makes the wires as uniform as possible when you pulse it to oxidize the surface. That's where the big payoff is. Sticky and a good patient burn in gets you to vapor flavor heaven. Good electrical efficiency.

And a good slow burn in like that will reinforce rigidity far better than the torching most do. All Kanthal winds warp with use. These create hot spots shortening the life and performance of the coil. A tensioned wind properly oxidized in tight space tends to want a be a coil longer (pulling in on itself).

To get it practice adding just a bit more tension in your starting winds until you see they don't separate. It's a little bit beyond that where sticky lives. You will taste it, feel it, see it when it happens in your vape. Go too far tight and you'll start to see hot again. It's a measure of tightness.

Anything that'll fit in the slot will do ya do. I recommend 1.778mm as it's a common drill blank size which will work in a dremmel (if you have the opt collets) and a pin vise. In my experience I find most people locate sticky quicker with a pin vise so you may want to consider that.

It's best if you know the mandrel diameter. So if you ever lose it you can duplicate your vape!

Then there's the oft chance you might want to talk up how good your vape is and pass it on to others.



Localization's real important on a Protank. The better the symmetry, the better that shape lasts through the rigors of refills and cleanings. So yeah, it's worth the investment of time to sort that part out.

Don't forget on any question all of us have made great contributions here and they're an advanced search away.

A few thoughts for you do. Need more feedback. We're all here for ya.

Good luck.

 

[dodari]

MacTV and Katya,

Thanks for the replies. Mac, got the drill blank site bookmarked, will be ordering. Looks like a #50 blank.

Thank you both.

 

[chanelvaps]

I have this, so worth the hassle of getting the exact right thing

MacTV and Katya,

Thanks for the replies. Mac, got the drill blank site bookmarked, will be ordering. Looks like a #50 blank.

Thank you both.