Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

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MacTechVpr

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I was bored one evening...long ago. It takes some good honest tapping along with the proper sized tool to get the sleeve out of a kanger subtank mini vertical coil too make it a horizontal coil. I have to sit down and redo it to figure it out again but YES it can be done and not damage anything. I'll wait for the day my last rba bites the dust before dwelling into rebuilding the factory coils.

The original [square] Subtank OCC was a challenge but you can get the top cap off. The vape with a single or dual horiz, far better than any vert I've ever done in any tank. Naturally, I'm talking strained and oxidized as described here.

Problem is I'm down to my last few as I pass on as many as I can to start new vapers. So if you have any of the orig that disassemble hold on to 'em. If not rebuilding, hail me and send 'em my way!

Good luck Alt and enjoy the vape. :)
 

Alter

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The STM vertical coil I took apart doesn't have a top cap, its a solid piece, everything just tapped apart. These are from kits I bought 3 years ago and barely used a couple in that time and have quite a pile of them. Its all pressfit together so just like the Merlin atty, once the fit is compromised it become prone to loosening up in time but since the subtank mini is being grandfathered its nice to be able to use those heads one day not having to rebuild using the crappy vertical coils.
 
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MacTechVpr

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The STM vertical coil I took apart doesn't have a top cap, its a solid piece, everything just tapped apart. These are from kits I bought 3 years ago and barely used a couple in that time and have quite a pile of them. Its all pressfit together so just like the Merlin atty, once the fit is compromised it become prone to loosening up in time but since the subtank mini is being grandfathered its nice to be able to use those heads one day not having to rebuild using the crappy vertical coils.

The orig square OCC's require a bit more effort I'm afraid. But enjoy vaping and rebuilding them. Hard to find these days tho. New ones are one piece upper and airflow insert quite fragile. I suppose you could tap the bottoms out. Never tried. Thx for that. However, my process of oxidation requires visual observation of the pulsing process from above. Very clever really for Kanger to seal newer versions as they have. In part, why I ceased supporting or advocating Kanger products generally. There are far too many other and easier options for easy low and mid power single-coil builds. Still, I admire Kanger's initial efforts and continue a fan of the original Subtank. Had the FDA not responded with the deeming it's possible the line would have continued as it did further opening doors for open-systems. Perhaps with improved RBA's.

I'm afraid those masses of new vapers in recent years reliant upon maker replaceable coil designs may soon be in for a shock. Our success as vapers has always depended on the concept of understanding and control of our vape, unlike what we suffered as smokers. Closed systems in my estimation are merely another form of dependency if only but significantly economic.

Today few wonder what goes in it as was the case when I quit five years ago. You'll know it when you buy it…seems to be the new vape ethic. Sad.

Good luck. :)
 
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MacTechVpr

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For reference from the thread…KangerTech SUBTANK Mini | Page 187 | Post #3731.

Broke my heart when they switched to vertical, I liked the af the way it was with the horizontal. The flavor loss was unacceptable for me. Luckily I was already hooked on the rba head and only occasionally used drop ins.

The chase for more production goes all the way back to the Aspire vert's and earlier micro vert experiments with clearo's notably the original and anemic Kanger Protank heads. It' always seemed to me counterintuitive to pack a coil from the outside so as to inhibit flow getting closest to the coil. The rapidly expanding vapor pushes outwardly against the juice supply. This must require higher power. Lots of flooding in those tests.

View attachment 751721 View attachment 751729 View attachment 751733 View attachment 751735

But for all who've come up on strictly externally wicked verticals it's a level of vapor density they're accustomed to. And reasonably more vapor should yield more flavor…except when you limit the supply source you tend to diffuse the vape reducing its density. So not really with verticals. They reach a density maximum more readily. And for cool MTL vapers there simply won't be enough there to begin with. The Holy Grail I think, the most natural geometry for a compact radiator, is the spiral. It's most favorable optimization, internal.

There really isn't a need to compromise though, as I've spoken to often. Spirals can be made better.

Good luck. :)
 
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Letitia

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For reference from the thread…KangerTech SUBTANK Mini | Page 187 | Post #3731.



The chase for more production goes all the way back to the Aspire vert's and earlier micro vert experiments with clearo's notably the original and anemic Kanger Protank heads. It' always seemed to me counterintuitive to pack a coil from the outside so as to inhibit flow getting closest to the coil. The rapidly expanding vapor pushes outwardly against the juice supply. This must require higher power. Lots of flooding in those tests.

View attachment 751721 View attachment 751729 View attachment 751733 View attachment 751735

But for all who've come up on strictly externally wicked verticals it's a level of vapor density they're accustomed to. And reasonably more vapor should yield more flavor…except when you limit the supply source you tend to diffuse the vape reducing its density. So not really with verticals. They reach a density maximum more readily. And for cool MTL vapers there simply won't be enough there to begin with. The Holy Grail I think, the most natural geometry for a compact radiator, is the spiral. It's most favorable optimization, internal.

There really isn't a need to compromise though, as I've spoken to often. Spirals can be made better.

Good luck. :)
Your pictures are too small on the computer and zoom didn't help much. Looked up spiral build/coil; of course there were many different hits on google. This is what I know...for myself the rba head with a clapton coil was the best flavor in the STM, the horizontal coils provided better flavor than the vertical imo. I did recoil the square heads until they redesigned the rba head. That being said those were my introduction to building. Then I started on rtas with bigger decks. Hoping when I break out the rba I can squeeze out more flavor than I could then. My understanding of af, coil placement, and wicking is slightly better. Always learning, mostly by accident.
 
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MacTechVpr

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Your pictures are too small on the computer and zoom didn't help much. Looked up spiral build/coil; of course there were many different hits on google. This is what I know...for myself the rba head with a clapton coil was the best flavor in the STM, the horizontal coils provided better flavor than the vertical imo. I did recoil the square heads until they redesigned the rba head. That being said those were my introduction to building. Then I started on rtas with bigger decks. Hoping when I break out the rba I can squeeze out more flavor than I could then. My understanding of af, coil placement, and wicking is slightly better. Always learning, mostly by accident.

You're doing great. I love when the gals show us up.

Think I'm certainly not the only one to note that single wire can produce as good a density/flavor result as claps. Seen it stated often. The physics tells me its about the correlation of wetted surface to mass and power. Simply, make good contact with the power you use. Anything more than that in power or mass and its wasted. My answer as I know you've prolly read is to lower wire profile by increasing resistance (thinner wire) and lower cross-section. IOW, parallels. The trick is making them so they keep on performing well past a week or so as we push them inevitably. It's important to know those limits anyway.

Pics were from that earlier thread I mentioned. Was a good one, back in the day when folks were really testing things more objectively, I think.

:) Good luck.

 
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Letitia

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I revisit single wire parallel builds occasionally and within a day am back to my tri cores. I still do not understand why a simple clapton takes longer to heat than my tri core fc. I know a tri will likely not work in the toptank and tried the very thin 30g twisted wire a while back and was not happy with it at all. Hard to work with, maybe a 3 wrap three wire parallel? Guessing I will have to revisit kanthal again. Might look for a kanthal wrapped with ss clapton wire.
 
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MacTechVpr

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I revisit single wire parallel builds occasionally and within a day am back to my tri cores. I still do not understand why a simple clapton takes longer to heat than my tri core fc. I know a tri will likely not work in the toptank and tried the very thin 30g twisted wire a while back and was not happy with it at all. Hard to work with, maybe a 3 wrap three wire parallel? Guessing I will have to revisit kanthal again. Might look for a kanthal wrapped with ss clapton wire.

When you do I'd be glad to help with those parallels. There are limitations with the ST as the posts have only ~7.5mm spread (9mm post-to-post). Trying to get the most wick surface area in there without a design that will skew is a challenge but doable. Question then is adequate airflow. I've significantly altered the wee-bitty pin holes in most of my heads. Once there, you can push a lot of power through strained oxidized parallels.

Do believe the above may have been a slightly over-sized build w/29awg. Need to revisit this as my research was limited to using RxW (Nextel) at 2.778mm. Problem with power is you will build gunk as you add watts. Opening up the Ø definitely helps, if you can go with cotton, rayon or alternative. Sadly, Nextel requires relatively tightly matching coil diameters. I wish there were so many vapers and using it that we had 3, 3.2 and 3.5mm variants. Then one could very precisely target virtually any modern device.

Will tell ya that most of the folks I set up with t.m.c.'s and RxW tend to not budge from there. Once they experience the flavor and ease of minimal maintenance it's snap.

Lot's to talk about on these various subjects. For the next week or so I'm caught up on a pressing tech project elsewhere. As always tho here if anyone needs.

Good night all. :)
 

Letitia

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When you do I'd be glad to help with those parallels. There are limitations with the ST as the posts have only ~7.5mm spread (9mm post-to-post). Trying to get the most wick surface area in there without a design that will skew is a challenge but doable. Question then is adequate airflow. I've significantly altered the wee-bitty pin holes in most of my heads. Once there, you can push a lot of power through strained oxidized parallels.

Do believe the above may have been a slightly over-sized build w/29awg. Need to revisit this as my research was limited to using RxW (Nextel) at 2.778mm. Problem with power is you will build gunk as you add watts. Opening up the Ø definitely helps, if you can go with cotton, rayon or alternative. Sadly, Nextel requires relatively tightly matching coil diameters. I wish there were so many vapers and using it that we had 3, 3.2 and 3.5mm variants. Then one could very precisely target virtually any modern device.

Will tell ya that most of the folks I set up with t.m.c.'s and RxW tend to not budge from there. Once they experience the flavor and ease of minimal maintenance it's snap.

Lot's to talk about on these various subjects. For the next week or so I'm caught up on a pressing tech project elsewhere. As always tho here if anyone needs.

Good night all. :)
I'll take you up on that offer down the road. Might have to dumb it down for me a bit though. Good night.
 
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MacTechVpr

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Lifted from the thread TENSION WRAPPING | Post #5 for reference here…
Aside from slightly changing the resistance of the wire, does tension wrapping your coils affect the wire's performance in other ways?

Taking into consideration the gauge and amount of tension applied.

@muth, good question. The resistance changes very little from the slight amount of stretching. Wouldn't be saying much if that's all there were to it.

Straining wire precisely on a mandrel though is just the means to an end. One similar in functional practice as curing a good cast iron pan. A slight strain multiplied by a good tool like a pin vise builds form into the wire as in a spring with very little effort. Coils then just want to stubbornly be one. Getting it just that tight and symmetrical aids tremendously in uniformly oxidizing the surface with electrical pulsing of the battery. Quickly, so less fiddly time getting to the vape. It's these two things, persistent form and the resulting wire surface insulation of alumina that take the final form much, much closer to the "theoretical" resistance of the wire. In other words, you make the most of the heat from the pan.

So you can make good tight winds that outperform a larger heftier geometry by bettering even heating. Much as you might by concentrating the light of several magnifiers. Except it's not random or variable but consistently (focused) and so a lesser likelihood of scorching wick and flow. I'm sure you may appreciate what such a uniform effective surface can do in the kitchen if you enjoy cooking as I do.

My reluctant surprise five years ago was just how well it worked. If interested, give us a shout. I'm here to help if need be in getting the wind and prep right. In the middle of a project but I'll do my best or someone should pipe in on the above thread.

Good luck muth. :)

p.s. For clarification, straining a wire stretches it if ever so slightly. But in so doing it's made thinner accounting for the small changes in linear resistance.
 
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muth

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Might look for a kanthal wrapped with ss clapton wire.
Did you find it? I have some 26g ss core wrapped with 36g k. Kind of the opposite of what you want. Got it at Lightning Vapes awhile ago. I also came across this site that specializes in ss wire and coils if you're into it. They even carry 40g ss.

Advanced Vape Supply
 
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Letitia

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Did you find it? I have some 26g ss core wrapped with 36g k. Kind of the opposite of what you want. Got it at Lightning Vapes awhile ago. I also came across this site that specializes in ss wire and coils if you're into it. They even carry 40g ss.

Advanced Vape Supply
I've been using AVS for over a year love them. I just need a bit more resistance than I get with ss for the new Engine. If I get ss/kanthal I can use replay. Otherwise I wouldn't be interested. I do enjoy my multi wire coils so a sacrifice is required.
Thanks for the ideas. I'll look up the wire. BTW are you muth with a Pico Squeeze on elr?
 

MacTechVpr

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For reference from the thread …Rda | Page 1 | Post #14

how do I know what watts to use when building my own coils in my rda I’ve just starting building I just wanted how do I know what wattage to vape at ideas anyone plus I would like to know if there’s like any apps or anything that could tell me what wattage to use for which ohms (resistance) thank you

Drew, this should give you an idea…

MacTechVpr's Tensioned Rebuild Central

I would start on the higher side of green if you're unsure. Get a good wide bore drip tip for your RDA and learn how to slipstream some air as you draw. Something we did rather intuitively and asbsentmindedly with analogs. It helps to moderate the diffusion of vapor after it's been produced at the coil as well as the apparent temperature. These things will brighten your vape.

Learn to rebuild an efficient coil and nirvana will happen.

Good luck. :)

 
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