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nice jig, cvedrick. it was discussed a page or so back. elegance in simplicity.
my first coil made on my 5/64" jig is still going strong. almost exclusively using that and my first 12 wrap 1.8Ω coil still to this day. vaping strong at 1 to 4 full PT fulls daily.
here's what she looked like today after some tugging back and forth changing out a few wicks...
after a quick couple fires and pushing each side closer one at a time with a dental pic, she's back to beauty, complete contact from coil to coil and a sweet burn pattern. see here...
just need to burn it in and apply pressure from the outside in. could easily be done with anything thin... a paper clip would work fine. even then, i suspect most of the deformation is from inserting new wicks. though i haven't kept track.
just think... that coil was made on a wire hanger with a couple nuts on a bolt in the middle. simple. effective. easy to use. loving life.
let me know if when you want one, M_Dub.
my first coil made on my 5/64" jig is still going strong. almost exclusively using that and my first 12 wrap 1.8Ω coil still to this day. vaping strong at 1 to 4 full PT fulls daily.
here's what she looked like today after some tugging back and forth changing out a few wicks...
after a quick couple fires and pushing each side closer one at a time with a dental pic, she's back to beauty, complete contact from coil to coil and a sweet burn pattern. see here...
just need to burn it in and apply pressure from the outside in. could easily be done with anything thin... a paper clip would work fine. even then, i suspect most of the deformation is from inserting new wicks. though i haven't kept track.
just think... that coil was made on a wire hanger with a couple nuts on a bolt in the middle. simple. effective. easy to use. loving life.
let me know if when you want one, M_Dub.
Very nice, beCK!! I was actually thinking about shooting you a PM about 1 of those jigs today..
But I finally wrapped a pretty decent coil earlier today - 30g, 10 wraps on 1/16", 1.9ohms
... And vaping very well! I still may be interested as that would make my life a lot easier, beck. But sometimes I like trying different inner diameters, as well. vape on!
But I finally wrapped a pretty decent coil earlier today - 30g, 10 wraps on 1/16", 1.9ohms
... And vaping very well! I still may be interested as that would make my life a lot easier, beck. But sometimes I like trying different inner diameters, as well. vape on!
nice jig, cvedrick. it was discussed a page or so back. elegance in simplicity.
my first coil made on my 5/64" jig is still going strong. almost exclusively using that and my first 12 wrap 1.8Ω coil still to this day. vaping strong at 1 to 4 full PT fulls daily.
here's what she looked like today after some tugging back and forth changing out a few wicks...
after a quick couple fires and pushing each side closer one at a time with a dental pic, she's back to beauty, complete contact from coil to coil and a sweet burn pattern. see here...
just need to burn it in and apply pressure from the outside in. could easily be done with anything thin... a paper clip would work fine. even then, i suspect most of the deformation is from inserting new wicks. though i haven't kept track.
just think... that coil was made on a wire hanger with a couple nuts on a bolt in the middle. simple. effective. easy to use. loving life.
let me know if when you want one, M_Dub.
Ah... had not noticed the link to the video, however My contribution was to the original discussion thread with links to making the device as well as using it.
I can't say empirically but it seems about right. And I don't have the appropriate strain gauge for wire. A S&W Mod 39 had a stocker trigger pull of about 6.5 lbs. (I used to do some custom work). The pressure I was applying with my index finger and forceps would have been pretty consistent with that for the 30g wire I was tension winding and snapping. Maybe somewhat less. But I may have easily over-torched those segments even though I was trying to keep it down to 6 sec's not the 10 Rip recommends. That definitely can weaken the wire (reducing it's elasticity, and affecting breaking point). I think you may need a more precise method to measure this if you're planning a serious device for winding Protank micro coils.
Good luck jelly. Happy Holidays.
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Original post was off-topic and will be reassigned its' own thread in the future.
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Thanks for the feedback Mac. I was not really concerned about how accurate the 'snap point' was, but only whether it seemed reasonable. And the effects of the wire pretorching was entirely missed by me.
My motivation for the question arose from an idea I had to apply a quantifiable amount of tension to the wire that could be repeated. My idea was to use a tension pulley to apply a repeatable force to the wire via a spring:
View attachment 284977
The objective in this design was to have the ability to vary the tension by either swapping springs and/or changing the bottom anchoring point of the spring. This method would be repeatable but not quantifiable.
Then I thought about an unrelated project that I did about a decade ago to measure the bending force required to flex a golf club shaft, and said "why not?". This conceptualized design would attach a digital fishing scale (which I still have from the golf club project) between the bottom of the spring and one of the fixed anchoring points. That way a documented and repeatable amount of tension could be applied to the wire.
However, there is a fatal flaw in my concept that relegates this as an exercise in futility.
It seems to me that there may be some alternatives to this quantifiable/repeatable tension design concept but for now I'm heading back to the original design with the mini-vise. I'm currently awaiting a couple of parts and the holidays will impact the construction, but I'm hoping that Santa's elves will stop by and give me a hand.
Happy Holidays!
Ingenious. I like the way you think!
Yeah, well I found out about the brittleness issues as I continued trying' to combine rigidity with tension. You can't fight mother nature. Particularly with something as fragile as wire. A torch makes things unquantifiable in practical terms. A cheap trick. A snap-shot shortcut to get where you ought to be. But no need really to reinvent the wheel. Best I can surmise why the torch was introduced into vaping...is for the drama! Or, someone owns some bernzomatic stock. Sorry, little bitt'a that New Yorker comin' out in me.
What I've realized on this forum — keep it simple and it will be used.
The most common answer — yeah, i'll try that.
<shrug>
You and me, whole 'nother ball game. Lookin' forward to the news feed.
Good luck! Happy Holidays.
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Original post was off-topic and will be reassigned its' own thread in the future.
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Hey jelly I like your idea. My pet peeve is getting folks past the misery. Soon everybody'll be doin' it, i.e. helping' 'em make straightforward contact coils, I hope. Then I can move on to the backlog of devices anxiously awaiting my attention and tinkerin' (or trashing, depending on your point of view).
But yeah, I think you're on to something. If you can fashion a clean working device, make it affordable, you have an instant market; the plethora of mushrooming vape shop retailers anxious for an economical method to re-wind and re-package TEMCO wire.
Plus, that would greatly facilitate the tension wind method I'm advocating! Can't tension wind off a cardboard spool. So hurry!
Oops! I spilled the beans. Sorry. But only half joking.
Good luck! Happy Holidays.
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personally, i like what you guys are attempting and support it to the utmost.
however.
it's been stated and reiterated nearly ad nauseam that the purpose Mac is getting at is repeatable success for everyone. further iterations include "simple tools everyone already has or has easy access to".
the rube goldberg approach is about as far from that as one could possibly stray.
the idea of building (hopefully you patent it, jelly) and likely marketing a device for winding spools and/or coils brings us further astray.
this direction of conversation is limiting possible contributors to the purpose of this thread. furthermore, it's limiting how many people can be helped as this thread is only getting harder to maneuver to useful information.
not to mention that business ventures are disallowed in this section of the forum. though, without a product to sell, we're only teetering between white and grey areas on that front. it's just theory at this point.
anywho - bottom line;
if this thread is to continue to be useful to anybody for it's intended purpose (purposes of the OP and Mac alike), the rube goldberg conversation (and some other likely also) is going to need it's own thread.
what needs to be done;
report a post relevant to the discussion that deserves it's own thread.
in the explanation box that shows up after you hit report, make a list of posts relevant to that conversation and ask that it be moved to it's own thread as a conversation that stemmed from the thread that doesn't add to it.
sit and wait as a moderator will likely pull those posts and add them to a thread for which that conversation can be had unfettered and uninterrupted.
it deserves it's own thread. this thread deserves to be useful for it's own purpose.
EDIT: P.S.
might i suggest we don't overlook sewing machines as far as tension(ers) are concerned. not the exact parts, but rather the mechanics.
however.
it's been stated and reiterated nearly ad nauseam that the purpose Mac is getting at is repeatable success for everyone. further iterations include "simple tools everyone already has or has easy access to".
the rube goldberg approach is about as far from that as one could possibly stray.
the idea of building (hopefully you patent it, jelly) and likely marketing a device for winding spools and/or coils brings us further astray.
this direction of conversation is limiting possible contributors to the purpose of this thread. furthermore, it's limiting how many people can be helped as this thread is only getting harder to maneuver to useful information.
not to mention that business ventures are disallowed in this section of the forum. though, without a product to sell, we're only teetering between white and grey areas on that front. it's just theory at this point.
anywho - bottom line;
if this thread is to continue to be useful to anybody for it's intended purpose (purposes of the OP and Mac alike), the rube goldberg conversation (and some other likely also) is going to need it's own thread.
what needs to be done;
report a post relevant to the discussion that deserves it's own thread.
in the explanation box that shows up after you hit report, make a list of posts relevant to that conversation and ask that it be moved to it's own thread as a conversation that stemmed from the thread that doesn't add to it.
sit and wait as a moderator will likely pull those posts and add them to a thread for which that conversation can be had unfettered and uninterrupted.
it deserves it's own thread. this thread deserves to be useful for it's own purpose.
EDIT: P.S.
might i suggest we don't overlook sewing machines as far as tension(ers) are concerned. not the exact parts, but rather the mechanics.
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I think you mean well Beck and I don't disagree things should be kept on topic. But really M's OP is appropriately about improving conventional microcoil builds. On the other hand, me personally I wouldn't seek censure of any post unless it was blatantly and personally aggressive or threatening or evidently disruptive or intended to derail a thread. That's me. If I were a moderator, and have been. Just sayin'. It's an open platform.
Anyway not too far back some fella posted a pic of a hybrid electrified piranha that was truly frightening.
Had to shut down the screen and put the kiddies to bed when that showed up.
Just funnin' you beck. We got it.
Good luck!
Thanks.
Yea, I can see your point that the direction that my device is taking may be somewhat complicated, but I doubt that it's beyond the skill level of anyone that's done some home repairs. I also think that the most unavailable item that I've mentioned in my posts was the fish scale and that was only to see if my build would supply sufficient tension. I had actually envisioned that anyone who would have tried to replicate my final build would more than likely just tug on the wire to get a feel for its' pull.
I have no intent to market anything. What I am attempting to do is purely for my own personal use. Any references that I may have made in that regard were purely in jest.
I can see your point and I don't disagree with it.
Again, it is definitely, absolutely and positively NOT a business venture.
That's not a bad idea, but I think that I'd prefer to simply remove my previous posts for the time being and start a new thread when my build is finalized. I don't know if that is possible, or how it's done...but I'll look into it. OK, but I was only able to go back a couple of days to delete my off-topic posts and I'm unable to edit the older ones, but I think that I caught everything that discussed wire tension.
That's a very interesting idea. I think that it's worthy of its' own thread (pun intended).
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That is such a beautiful looking micro, beck. I bet it vapes amazingly!
.. We might've gotten a little bit off topic but that's no big deal to me, I know I've gotten off topic a few times in this thread. But I definitely see your point Beck.
For the benefit of others reading this thread, it would probably be best to stay on topic. Keep discussing how we can improve our microcoils to get the perfect vape that we all seek. Obviously we know that everybody has different preferences, so different builds work best for different people. But we also all know, that a good microcoil build should have tightly wrapped, closely touching coils to function properly - burning an even red hot glow instantly from the center of the coil outwards, keeping the outside of the coil from getting hot legs. And of course, proper wicking weather using cotton, ekowool, or whatever!!
We've made some amazing progress and have helped a lot of people learn how to get an even better vape, and save money while doing it. Find the build that best suites your needs, find out how you can repeat those results, and experiment!
.. We might've gotten a little bit off topic but that's no big deal to me, I know I've gotten off topic a few times in this thread. But I definitely see your point Beck.
For the benefit of others reading this thread, it would probably be best to stay on topic. Keep discussing how we can improve our microcoils to get the perfect vape that we all seek. Obviously we know that everybody has different preferences, so different builds work best for different people. But we also all know, that a good microcoil build should have tightly wrapped, closely touching coils to function properly - burning an even red hot glow instantly from the center of the coil outwards, keeping the outside of the coil from getting hot legs. And of course, proper wicking weather using cotton, ekowool, or whatever!!
We've made some amazing progress and have helped a lot of people learn how to get an even better vape, and save money while doing it. Find the build that best suites your needs, find out how you can repeat those results, and experiment!
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My current microcoil is vaping like a friggin FOG MACHINE!! Seriously I just chain vaped it about 3 times, and my entire living room is FILLED with dense thick smoke. I literally could hardly even see my TV for a minute hah!
.... 10/(9) wraps of 30g on a 1/16in bit (1.58mm), 1.9Ω - I can tell this is going to be 1 of those coils that I won't have to replace for a while, just replace the cotton every few days and vape on
And I think some of my problems with vapor thickness & flavor have been because of my juice. I tried a new vape store's juice today (haven't tried too many), and it seems thicker than my usual juice - either way great flavor and lots of thick vapor.
..... And I always get 50/50 pg-vg. Haven't tried any other ratio
.... 10/(9) wraps of 30g on a 1/16in bit (1.58mm), 1.9Ω - I can tell this is going to be 1 of those coils that I won't have to replace for a while, just replace the cotton every few days and vape on
And I think some of my problems with vapor thickness & flavor have been because of my juice. I tried a new vape store's juice today (haven't tried too many), and it seems thicker than my usual juice - either way great flavor and lots of thick vapor.
..... And I always get 50/50 pg-vg. Haven't tried any other ratio
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(hopefully you can here the loud echos from across the valley atop the mountainside.)
i am a forum moderator myself. trust me. what i suggested is EXACTLY what a moderator would want you to do to help keep things tidy.
we're in this together as a community.
the discussion was a fantastic one with great potential. did not want to lose it in it's infancy. rather not have it distract from this one while giving it it's proper attention and own space.
sorry guys. that's exactly what i didn't want to happen. lost forever.
we'll miss you.
(hopefully you can here the loud echos from across the valley atop the mountainside.)
i am a forum moderator myself. trust me. what i suggested is EXACTLY what a moderator would want you to do to help keep things tidy.
we're in this together as a community.
the discussion was a fantastic one with great potential. did not want to lose it in it's infancy. rather not have it distract from this one while giving it it's proper attention and own space.
sorry guys. that's exactly what i didn't want to happen. lost forever.
we'll miss you.
Yes you have M and thanks to all who've contributed their observations and context.
Good luck! Happy holidays.
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Thanks Mac, happy holidays and good luck to you also. I do need to get some new Kanthal, this time I'll purchase online and get a spool. I would like to try some 28g builds like beck has posted, (I'd actually like to attempt to repeat the exact build that is pictured above @ Post#352! lol).
I think I'm going to grab some 29gauge Kanthal and see what kinds of microcoils I can build with that (or 31g?)! 30g will still probably be ideal for most people/situations (and me), but I haven't seen anybody post any 29g microcoil results for the Protank/eVod/etc.. I still need some 28g also.
But either way, will post pics and results very soon. I'd like to compile a large table of definite results from different microcoil builds, exactly like you have been posting Mac
I think I'm going to grab some 29gauge Kanthal and see what kinds of microcoils I can build with that (or 31g?)! 30g will still probably be ideal for most people/situations (and me), but I haven't seen anybody post any 29g microcoil results for the Protank/eVod/etc.. I still need some 28g also.
But either way, will post pics and results very soon. I'd like to compile a large table of definite results from different microcoil builds, exactly like you have been posting Mac
Thanks Mac, happy holidays and good luck to you also. I do need to get some new Kanthal, this time I'll purchase online and get a spool. I would like to try some 28g builds like beck has posted, (I'd actually like to attempt to repeat the exact build that is pictured above @ Post#352! lol).
I think I'm going to grab some 29gauge Kanthal and see what kinds of microcoils I can build with that (or 31g?)! 30g will still probably be ideal for most people/situations (and me), but I haven't seen anybody post any 29g microcoil results for the Protank/eVod/etc.. I still need some 28g also.
But either way, will post pics and results very soon. I'd like to compile a large table of definite results from different microcoil builds, exactly like you have been posting Mac
Thanks M, and the same to you and yours.
I'd like to take your lead to post the first validated 29 AWG value from my own results tables. Now validated no less than three times. A further validation for torsioned 29 AWG. I'm annotating my tables with the new designation torsioned micro coil to differentiate those results from conventional hand-over-hand manual pressure winds (all of the latter necessarily torched to arrive at a final contact coil resistance).
30AWG, 9/8 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. = 2.01Ω √
29AWG, 9/8 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.92Ω √
View attachment 285985 View attachment 285986
These winds are now running at consistently superlative results at 4V, 8W on KPT 1, 1.5 (cross-bar) and 2 with four tanks running off eVic's and the zMax v3 (variety). One so far out 10 days on Nextel XC-132. I should mention the last 30g confirmation was conducted on the fly, a snap-shot build for a friend, a Pinoy high-end dealer, himself a builder and modder. Literally grabbed my gear out of the bag and constructed the PT build in less than 5 minutes for a proof-of-concept under pressure (pardon the pun). I attribute this directly to build tightness and quality. Techniques gleaned from this thread and Metalhed's original localization thread, refined with the feedback and help of you guys. Thank you!
I certainly expected that tensioned winds would tighten the resistance and performance of PT coils. However, the increased durability of the wicking was an unexpected and very, very rewarding surprise. I've also observed a rather impressive reduction, practically an elimination of color change in juices. Product like Ginger's RY4, every bit as dense as Boba's Bounty, remaining fairly consistent in coloration with both the two above winds. I devoted one tank to high temp test and have run it out to 10W also pressing and chaining that device with only very slight discoloration over 4-5 days (a Johnson Creek honey flue blend).
So thanks M for any contribution to the spec's of these build tables, and all of you. I would suggest if you post a result and your wind is tensioned directly from a spool, tool or by other method that you spell it out for others. This may allow reproduction and confirmation of your result. Very much to all our benefit to encourage it.
Validate at least twice confirming resistance on two separate devices. This might reduce the incidence of variation by others and and the tedium of addressing them. So try to post numbers that are likely to be reached because you've been there, done that. I only consider a resistance target validated when I have at least 2 successive builds at that precise resistance run on different tanks and devices with the exact build. Using the exact technique can vary anyway usually .04-.05Ω (+/- .025Ω). But you tend to hit multiples within that range. I remain suspicious of any lower result until verified as above. There is always the potential of equipment failure on my end. I may not have yet reached the low end of potential for any of the below. I may also have exceeded it [an unobserved intermittent short] in gear or testing tools. I rely on the helpful worthwhile contributions of my peers on ECF to firm up this report. And your help is appreciated.
This has been tried elsewhere on the forum to varying degrees of success. But to our advantage the Protank is one of the most universal atomizers we have. It's design parameters fairly uniform across versions, well understood and quantifiable. So we have a better chance here of identifying what constitutes a working build because of the substantial base of users available. It's a numbers game. Plus resistance on an RDA, for example, can only be reliably duplicated by exact configuration (wire length). With the PTK the wire length is limited by the design and our coil configuration (the turns we ad). That is measurable. I believe these target values, along with a stable technique based on sound electrical principles, will give newcomers in particular the confidence to rely on specific targets, and results. For all of us an additional layer of safety in having a greater confidence that a variation is either a sloppy build or we should exercise care (to the low side).
Here is a sum-up of the most pertinent validations I have made for KPT…
32AWG, 7/6 1.75mm i.d. m.c. = 2.2Ω √
32AWG, 5/4 2mm i.d., loose m.c. = 1.85Ω √
30AWG, 11/10 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 2.1Ω √ #292 MrOcelot
30AWG, 10/9 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 2.04Ω √
30AWG, 9/8 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. =2.01 √
30AWG, 8/7 1.75mm i.d. m.c. = 1.85Ω √
30AWG, 8/7 1/16-1.58mm i.d. m.c. = 1.81√
30AWG, 8/7 1/16-1.58mm i.d. t.m.c. = 1.73Ω √
30AWG, 7/6 1.75mm i.d., m.c. = 1.78 √
30AWG, 7/6 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 1.57Ω √
29AWG, 9/8 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. = 1.92Ω √
28AWG, 12/11, 1/16-1.58mm i.d., m.c. = 1.3Ω #241 vdaedalus
28AWG, 10/9, 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.7Ω
28AWG, 10/9, 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.64Ω
28AWG, 10/9, 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.62Ω
28AWG, 10/9, 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.62Ω
28AWG, 9/8, 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.49Ω
28AWG, 9/8, 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.49Ω
28AWG, 9/8, 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.49Ω
28AWG, 8/7 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.3Ω
I hope this info may prove helpful to you in targeting your Protank builds.
Good luck! Happy Holidays all.
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