Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

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MacTechVpr

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So 1.9Ω is definitely my sweet spot!! :vapor:
^ best flavor/vapor from my own microcoil builds on my PT1/2, and on pretty much any other stock coil I've tried (T2, T3, eVod, PT, etc..)

Until I try a sub-ohm coil on a mech, or a double/triple/quad micro on any device, and other crazy dripper builds, 1.9Ω will remain my sweet spot.

Wonderful M, congratulations. An outstanding and personal Christmas present. I too have pretty much hit at the serendipitous discovery that the delicious progression — 2Ω, 4V 8W — seems to be powerfully magical for me. After all, I had a dream a day or two before I actually hit it the first time that 9-winds on 30 would be the ticket for the Protank. So here it is, the bounty of our industrious collaboration, our gift to this thread, for those with the wisdom to grasp it, a rational center for those aspiring to the quest for the golden chalice, the immortal search for perfect flavor, the logical center for the PTK, the starting point, the ending point, O H M…

30AWG, 9/8 1.75mm i.d., t.m.c. =2.01Ω √

Then again, since our reads always seem to be a point apart, maybe I'm at 1.9, or you're really at 2.0! :D

No matter M…Happy Holidays!

:)
 

M_DuBb716

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Maybe Mac, thanks again!!

Just wrapped another 30g, 10wraps on 1/16' - 1.9ohm. I wrapped it by hand, near perfectly. I found out that my problem seems to be when I use the tweezers to tighten the coil (after dry-firing), and to center the coil. Somewhere when I'm tightening/moving the coil with the tweezers, it loses its perfect shape and becomes a little wobbly.. I took pics of this entire process right now so I can show you what I mean.

It went from a perfect looking micro to a slightly wonky micro, will post pics. Hope it vapes good at least, because it still looks better than most of my recent attempts!!
 

Daniel_c

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Okay getting REAL ANNOYED I have been trying to get my protanks to work for so long and it's just failing. I did my own coil at 2.4ohm a little high I know but no big deal. Anyway I was first using cotton balls and it just sucked. Flood and flooding and more flooding. I even used flavor wicks. Then I went to Walmart and picked up basically a lifetime supply of peaches and cream yarn and boiled some of it and used all 4 strands and two flavor wicks on top and guess what MORE FLOODING, what the heck am I doing wrong here I don't get it. I'm using a vamo v5 btw
 

MacTechVpr

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Okay getting REAL ANNOYED I have been trying to get my protanks to work for so long and it's just failing. I did my own coil at 2.4ohm a little high I know but no big deal. Anyway I was first using cotton balls and it just sucked. Flood and flooding and more flooding. I even used flavor wicks. Then I went to Walmart and picked up basically a lifetime supply of peaches and cream yarn and boiled some of it and used all 4 strands and two flavor wicks on top and guess what MORE FLOODING, what the heck am I doing wrong here I don't get it. I'm using a vamo v5 btw

Dan, Happy Holidays! From what your describing…waayyy too much wick, not enough joy. And lemme tell ya, I feel your pain. Been there done that.

We're gonna need more detail; like, what you're winding on, its diameter, what wire and kind of heat you're lopking for (watts), etc. This thread has become about finding the precision to build it repeatedly, all the time. It took, for me, realizing that you have to build to a standard. With time most who do this realize that smaller, tighter, is better and gravitate towards smaller builds and consequently lower resistance 1.8-2.2Ω, a range lower than the factory builds. That's to be expected, because the stock jobber is loose and imprecise. And the latter is the model that most of us follow.

Let us know how and what you're putting together. So some of us can pitch in. A bit more info and I think you can nail this down in a heartbeat. Cotton is great, most say, in a Protank. A bit too fiddly for my tastes but no doubt awesome. I use it everywhere, to my tremendous satisfaction, using those same simple coils I designed for a Protank as a guide. Sometimes, the very ones.

Good luck!

:)
 
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MacTechVpr

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Maybe Mac, thanks again!!

Just wrapped another 30g, 10wraps on 1/16' - 1.9ohm. I wrapped it by hand, near perfectly. I found out that my problem seems to be when I use the tweezers to tighten the coil (after dry-firing), and to center the coil. Somewhere when I'm tightening/moving the coil with the tweezers, it loses its perfect shape and becomes a little wobbly.. I took pics of this entire process right now so I can show you what I mean.

It went from a perfect looking micro to a slightly wonky micro, will post pics. Hope it vapes good at least, because it still looks better than most of my recent attempts!!

Let me say M I love a lot of your questions as they often are confined to just one issue. And that let's me focus on that one particular problem. I'll start by admitting I'm so diddly fingered at times I couldn't win at thumb wrestling. So precision is possible when you're feelin' it, if you know what I mean. Best to put the work aside sometimes. I know, I snapped three consecutive .5x.1mm ribbon coils at the last possible moment yesterday. You can't push the work, it must guide you. It just took me a bit longer than usual, to take my own advice.

I know that delicate point you're talking about when you're trying to complete the set and finally remove the bit. When you do the final push-in for the grommet. That's when things often go sideways. I've mentioned in other posts about the grommet set, that I'm using a two step process:

The first, to slightly insert the grommet then, with light hand or forceps tension, relocate the exit path of each leg so that it best conforms to the exit alignment from the coil. As best as Trippers could explain it, "…pull 'em straight, in the same direction [they are going]." Or, said another way, in the direction the leg is pointing as it finishes its last turn on the coil. This I want to say is about roughly at 120 deg (or 4 O'clock, facing) of the end turns and the termination exit point about a third of the way from either side of the housing assembly (depending on the length of the coil). So you don't get exit paths that are directly across from each other; rather, opposing each other in the perpendicular to the coil axis. Imagine cutting off both ends of a pie. That's what you want.

The second now becomes a matter of tension. Let me emphasize first that the bit must remain rock solid at the bottom of the slot. The very main point of this entire thread, localization. It's at this juncture that skewing, introducing arching of the coil, etc. (uneven tension to one leg or the other) or dislocation (pulling to one side or the other of the coil, or raising or lowering of an end turn) are most likely to occur. And this is where a pre-tensioned or torsioned coil really helps; as metal memory is forcing it resume its original shape on the bit with every adjustment. The key here is to achieve a balance of tension of the legs. So it's very important that the tension you apply here should be delicate and precise. This is the point where you solve your issues. Take a deep breath, exhale and relax it's the equivalent of the sharp-shooters trigger pull here so get close to the magnifier, set the legs and pull gently. Keep centering the coil with a fine flat-head or pin as you tension the coil until those end turns are perfect and your exit paths will at that point be optimal. Let the work guide you. It will tell you what it needs.

The key, the tool here is observation, that's what I mean by guide you. We often are so glad we got that finicky grommet in, we push up pull and go, never to think…did I pull the damn coil out I yanked so hard. Really. Unfortunately, that's the way the human brain functions, regrettably. We are so easily distracted to be rote. But at this first partial grommet set, you can't be. It's the trigger pull. The time for precision concentration, when the intuitive and mechanical (muscle memory) must yield to clear focus as each coil's final precision is unique. They just happen to look perfectly identical if you do it right.

There still remains another hurdle to cross: the final grommet set and pin set. Each are accomplished independently. Each step to finish, the grommet may require a few push ins, alternatively adding tension to each leg as you proceed; and, you should check the integrity of the symmetry of the coil and leg exit each time to continue adjustments accordingly as needed. This may be to nudge the coil to one side slightly or tension one leg to do so. "Small moves," as Carl Sagan would have put it. And, likewise with the final pin set for punctuation.

And yer done. And done right, takes a minute or two. When you let the work guide you. When you allow yourself to observe the obvious...and not proceed despite it.

The latter is how you end up with funky lookin' honeys. Ya just weren't lookin'.

You can have the egg nog now.

Happy Holidays. Good luck!

:)
 

MacTechVpr

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Okay just tried the screw again and I am reading a perfect 1.8 Ohm which I have never gotten so far although this is my first day with rebuilding. I am was able to fit 3 strands of peaches and cream so I will try that

Okay here is a little background, I was wrapping with a little screw, don't really know the diameter. Then I switched to wrapping around a cuetip for diameter which gave me a very nice wide coil. I'm using 30 Guage kanthal right now. Also running on vamo v5 at around 8 to 9 Watts

Good morning Dan. The problem with the Protank and most clearo's is airflow. I'd love to have nice fat wicks in 'em but you tend to flood because there's not enough air to feed the vaporization process. If you apply more power, you just burn the wick. And it's easy to do with cotton.

Now building on a q-tip is a great start to applying a consistent approach. But it's more than twice the diameter that will fit all the way down the slot to the factory optimal coil position (where you need to be to avoid flooding). On this thread you'll find suggestions for the diameter's you'll need. And hard to believe perhaps, less is more on most clearo's.

If you must use a screw meantime, just fine. Better if it fits down in the slot. I love 8W at 2.0Ω. Not much above this as you start getting into hot zones that can bust coils fast and junk up your tank. Some rave about it, but the pleasure is short lived. I write about sustainable enjoyment.

Good start Dan.

Happy Holidays! Good luck.

:)
 
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M_DuBb716

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Thanks Mac, I already practice pretty much every one of those techniques when I build a microcoil.. I believe the problem was that I may have squeezed too hard with the tweezers when tightening the coil, causing the last wraps to overwrap.. Also, I've been trying to center my coil with the tweezers while squeezing it tight, and I learned I can't do this. That is what morphed the shape of the entire coil.

I did exactly what you said though. I make sure they legs are at the perfect places for installation before anything. I keep 1 leg longer than the other so I can remember which side it's on after inserting into it's housing. While the bit is in the coil, I insert the coil, than push with 2 fingers on top of the drill bit (to keep it at the bottom of the slot) while holding the bottom of the housing-unit with my thumb, than carefully insert the grommet. I also make sure the legs are where they should be before the grommet is fully in.
I make sure both legs are separated and in the right spot, (while still holding the coil down in the slot with the bit), push in the grommet, than carefully bend the legs over and twist them off. Than I take off the drill bit for final tightening.

Since the legs are locked into place after I remove the bit, when I tried to re-position the coil while squeezing it tight with the tweezers - this is where my coil morphed.

Still vaping okay though, I'll build another tonight.

...Daniel, take your time bud. It can take a little practice, keep trying and keep reading here!
 

humpstyles

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I am going to attempt to rebuild by first head for an EVOD clone when my materials come in on Monday. I ordered 100' of 32GA Kanthal and 12' of 2mm Ekowool. I notice a lot of comments recently have been cotton-based, so what drillbit/screwdriver size would be recommended for the Ekowool. It's hollow, which, from what i've read before, allow a pin to be stuck down the length of it to allow sturdiness.

EDIT: I also have a PT3 on the way too, with a 5pk of coil heads.
 

Kyi

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Whoa! I've been looking for a new clearo to buy but seeing as how many people are talking about rebuilding their protanks and evods, I decided to give it a try on my Evod, which has been mostly sitting around because I keep getting dry and burnt hits on it. I used 31 gauge kanthal... not sure how many wraps but it registered at 2.4 ohms, and I used some cotton wick. I did a pretty sloppy job but it gives a pretty darn good vape if I say so myself. Maybe I won't need to buy new clearos after all!
 

MacTechVpr

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Thanks Mac, I already practice pretty much every one of those techniques when I build a microcoil.. I believe the problem was that I may have squeezed too hard with the tweezers when tightening the coil, causing the last wraps to overwrap...Since the legs are locked into place after I remove the bit, when I tried to re-position the coil while squeezing it tight with the tweezers - this is where my coil morphed.

Roger that. Sad when that happens so near the end. But it does despite our best efforts. Usually early on any discongruity, it's better to toss it. At that point, ya vape it. I agree.

Tired. Demo's all afternoon to several B&M owners on proper electrical coils and assembly techniques for the rest of us.

Good luck M.

:)
 
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MacTechVpr

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Whoa! I've been looking for a new clearo to buy but seeing as how many people are talking about rebuilding their protanks and evods, I decided to give it a try on my Evod, which has been mostly sitting around because I keep getting dry and burnt hits on it. I used 31 gauge kanthal... not sure how many wraps but it registered at 2.4 ohms, and I used some cotton wick. I did a pretty sloppy job but it gives a pretty darn good vape if I say so myself. Maybe I won't need to buy new clearos after all!

You won't have to. This thread starts to get a bit advanced. So you might want to peruse...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/tips-tricks/463771-protank-cotton-rebuild-way-i-do.html

to get the basics on the puzzle pieces. You gals are far and away sooo much better than us guys at fine finger control. Your ramp up time is far shorter. The hand wind from the coil is what gives you a big jump start in making the perfect coil. Steampunker's do them every day come Sunday. Were still winding wet noodle. Get yourself a good vape. Find a vendor that'll sell you a small coil, or wrap that 31 gauge on something you can spool from directly to a screwdriver, the cheap ones. You'll be vapin' like a champ in no time. This thread and the cotton thread will give you the details to tighten up your rebuild. Two weeks from now you'll be ahead of a great many who've been doing the hand wind thingy for years. Don't sell yourself short. Once you build a few the right way you'll feel like you've got your life back. Trust me. Been there, done that.

Happy Holidays. Good luck Kyl.

:)
 

MacTechVpr

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Happy Holidays Taf, nice to see ya. You're mostly right on that score. But there is a sublime reason to change resistance…it's about temperature…flavor! Finding the right applied power for the juice you just fell in love with. And suddenly you discover in a dripper it's different than in a tank, or a carto, or the way power is delivered by one particular mod…because that unique flavor note in that product just isn't there at that temperature, in that device with your usual set-up.

You like your steaks on a grill, don't you? Medium rare, and seared to perfection on the outside (for me). That's when those Protank skills yield the greatest reward — when we're not stuck in one place, with one build. That we see it, taste it…rework it ourselves. Then we are the grillmasters of our vaping domain.

It's a wonderful adventure Taf. I fortunately caught on early that with some basic mechanical skills and understanding of electronics, you can build that perfect vape for you, anytime. And now one of my faves has become sharing that remarkable discovery.

Glad to see you here.

Good luck!

:)
 
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TafkanX

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Okay, I'll concede that. Never stop experimenting, that elusive perfect vape you're chasing is just "one more" coil away at any given moment. What I meant was that simply transferring to another device doesn't shatter the physics that made your coil work in your previous device.

I am keen to see what wonders await in the impending new year, and will be happy to put 2013 in my rearview for personal reasons.

Cheers!
 

MacTechVpr

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Okay, I'll concede that. Never stop experimenting, that elusive perfect vape you're chasing is just "one more" coil away at any given moment. What I meant was that simply transferring to another device doesn't shatter the physics that made your coil work in your previous device.

I am keen to see what wonders await in the impending new year, and will be happy to put 2013 in my rearview for personal reasons.

Cheers!

And that is at the heart of what we need to know.

"I know my dear Watson, that you share my love of all that is bizarre and outside the conventions and humdrum routine of everyday life." —Sherlock Holmes Quote, The Red-Headed League
 

MacTechVpr

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MacTechVpr - By "simple hand wind off the wire spool." do you mean twisting the wire?

Good question TC. No I'm applying normal hand tension (perpendicular to the shank) to force the pressure into the wire. In that context when I say tension and torsion, I refer to the same thing, outward tension only. No longitudinal stress applied. In fact, the collateral benefit to this tension is that the wire follows a more natural path and the tendency to overlap is eliminated, if kept constant. Also as I demonstrated in at least one photograph, once the tension is released, as with torsion winds done on jigs, the coil perfectly retains its shape. No springiness despite the lack of torching which is unnecessary as the TEMCO wire I use is already annealed. There is more than enough force or pressure in the human hand to induce shape memory into a coil. And it saves a lot of time and fiddly. If you want to build rigidity into a coil you can still torch; and, right on the screwdriver bit. But why not start with the exact shape you want?

An important benefit is that the outward (last) turn, away from the grip or taped end, of the wire is absolutely straight, unhandled and untouched (after de-winding). Ideal for introduction as the short positive leg on a dripper or any topper as the end turn is perfectly joined in as complete of a turn as possible. The whole coil remains intact if you install it on the atomizer while still directly on the bit. You want to see a first fire contact coil (microcoil), build one of these. It's a beautiful thing TC. And simple.

Just thought to add a few remarks as the topic came up earlier.

Happy Holidays, good luck all!

:)
 
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