Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

[Mazinny]

That's all I want to see is newcomers and veteran users alike get a better vape…right now. From the first time I saw a hand wind and recalled the engineer who showed me a pin vise tension wind decades ago. No reason to struggle in this world.



I believe it most has to do do with the narrowness of the tanks, the air column. Protanks are airy when full, bogged and flooding as the tank empties. Balance that with some airflow and power variability and it can be pretty darn close to a legitimate smoke. And the tank can bring out some rather unique flavor notes from many juices. It's great for tobacco. Particularly chaining at cooler temp's. Something you wish you could have done with an analog, and couldn't (too hot). But it's awfully lacking for the latter when power is applied and flavor is lost unless you have super wicking. I agree. I actually was getting better results with a Mini or even a 3TS before I rolled out tension and the Aero adapter. And btw, I resisted using these solutions as I tried to bring the thread up to speed. Likewise I hadn't built out the vast array of equipment I had accumulated Maz. It was just too much to do (I have 31 mods at the moment) and I couldn't focus on what users might be experiencing with their results. I do like your serious method approach to improving your vape. Congratulations, truly.



It's turned out to be a damned good spec for the Protank. More versatile and rugged than 30 AWG. However the latter at 9-turns on .07" (~1.75-78mm) 4.0V, 8W @ 2.0Ω pretty much defines the optimal center of production for the design. Right smack in the middle of Kanger's 2.2 and 1.8 heads. The 2.4-5 and now 1.5's being the outer boundaries. I'll continue to post validated (3 build confirmations) of both conventional and tension wind results (legs included) to expand the resistance signpost tables and hope others may decide to contribute on this thread. To newcomers having this information is vital to fast-track their quitting and adaptation.



Thank super_X_drifter. He truly is a scholar and a gentleman for seriously taking on tension as a viable alternative to help all vapers. And his support and inspiration for the average user to build solid logical builds helps the entire community. Insofar as the advertisers, they know how to read. And I'm sure they can find this board. If they want to learn they can learn with the rest of us.

However, to break down coil stabilization and geometry, build symmetry, tension, etc. (the premises of the two threads I often mention) requires a team…and certainly more than one or two clips. I urge everyone who succeeds to contribute and help others to understand that inferior electrical winds handicap a build's efficiency and keeps them from a better vape and reliability. Once they start to see after a few winds a 20% or more improvement in electron flow, they get the picture, vividly.

Later today I'm doing a local video spot at a B&M and will begin the process of talking this up. We'll see how this goes on the first outing. Wish me luck. Already done several workshops and am trying to better formalize and cookie-stamp this process. I have no desire to be a public persona with a tension mantra. I'm an avatar. I worked and researched this for six months to pay back this community for being tenacious first adopters and researchers themselves. I'm paying back what I couldn't pay forward. Don't all pile on at one time. I have no sponsors and I am self financed. I do appreciate acknowledgement every once in a while and get it gratefully. There are a heck of a lot of good people and vendors on this forum. That was a huge surprise about this business and industry. Honestly, it started to make me proud to be an American again. That prevalent sense of individualism, ingenuity, entrepreneurship, curiosity and opportunity that pervades this phenomena. Enough now…

Good luck Maz. Enjoy that vape!

Yeah, i will send him a pm to thank him.

I am not as analytical as you in figuring out why things are the way they are in my builds when it comes to different clearos I am happy with a really good vape, i don't necessarily try for ther the perfect vape in every condition.

I tend to prefer my net's a little warmer than my other juices. There are so so many variables in vaping from tanks to builds to juices to resistance to power etc.... Oh and btw there are variables within the variables .... At some point i will settle on a set-up and that would be that. I am not quite there yet, but soon i think. I have already settled on my mods, and won't buy any more until the ones i have break down. I am almost there with clearos. The Russian and Kayfun Lite clones are very good and extremely consistent and pretty cheap. My builds are the last piece of the puzzle, and thanks to you and others ( M-Dub, Five4, Metalhead and Super X come immediately to mind, but there are others too ), i am getting to the point that i am satisfied with the quality and consistency of those to.

Thanks and keep yp the good work, and lots of luck at the workshop/demonstration

 

[Mazinny]

Yes, but the Kanthal on Ebay for those sizes is much less, as well. Does appear that on some sizes, Ebay is much less. On others, a dime or two more. Probably need to check both sites, depending on gauge. Both sites are Temco Industrial Power. Also, for some reason, some gauges are out of stock at the Temco site, and in-stock at Ebay. Strange.....It is what it is. Best to you!

Got there too late i suppose ! Their ebay 29 is now sold out too. Strange, they sell their products at different prices on their eBay page and on their direct website.

 

[Porkchop081]

I have found that drilling the air holes out to 1/16 and leaving the cotton wick long and tucking it around the the bottom of the base dramatically reduces flooding/gurgling. i use 28g kanthol 7-9 wraps on a 5/64 drill bit=1.7-1.9 ohms and no rubber grommet. no dry hits and allmost never gurgles. nice thick vapor and flavor. used on a Vamo V3 at 8-10watts depending on juice. learning how to build these coils saved my Pro-tanks from the trash.

 

[brawndo]

ditto on what porkchop said about drilling air holes and leaving the wick long!! Lately I've been doing is wraping three "micros" awesome flavor and vapor with quicker heat up. 30gauge nichrome. On a 16 gauge needle. I do two wraps together a little space two wraps together, space and two wraps together. Gives me 2.1ohms but great great vapor. And this is in a mini protank

 

[Mazinny]

I have found that drilling the air holes out to 1/16 and leaving the cotton wick long and tucking it around the the bottom of the base dramatically reduces flooding/gurgling. i use 28g kanthol 7-9 wraps on a 5/64 drill bit=1.7-1.9 ohms and no rubber grommet. no dry hits and allmost never gurgles. nice thick vapor and flavor. used on a Vamo V3 at 8-10watts depending on juice. learning how to build these coils saved my Pro-tanks from the trash.

strange, i need 12 wraps around 5/64 with 28 g kanthal to get the same resistance that you get ... getting the aertank base is probably a better option to change air flow according to vaping style and viscosity of juice. Fortunately i have never had a flooding or gurgling problem with short cotton wicks.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

strange, i need 12 wraps around 5/64 with 28 g kanthal to get the same resistance that you get ... getting the aertank base is probably a better option to change air flow according to vaping style and viscosity of juice. Fortunately i have never had a flooding or gurgling problem with short cotton wicks.

+1. 12 wraps of 28 gauge kanthal on 5/64" mandrel gives me 1.79 ohms. 9 wraps gives me 1.38 ohms. My preferred coil is 9-10 wraps of 28 gauge on 1/16" mandrel for 1.1 - 1.25 ohms on a tight micro coil.

On a Protank, though, the longer leads would explain the higher resistance. I use a Kayfun 3.1 and a Taifun GT day in and day out, so YMMV.

 

[brawndo]

i take back my previous build!!!!! Wow just made twisted wire of two strands of 30g nichrome 7 wrap micro coil with cotton 1.1 ohms wow just wow running it on my trusty puck mod amazing vapor and flavor!!! I never had lower gauge wire it def. makes a huge difference

 

[MacTechVpr]

strange, i need 12 wraps around 5/64 with 28 g kanthal to get the same resistance that you get ... getting the aertank base is probably a better option to change air flow according to vaping style and viscosity of juice. Fortunately i have never had a flooding or gurgling problem with short cotton wicks.

Good observation. I was going to comment myself on this loose wind.

My smallest conventional wind m.c. with multiple validations within .02Ω...28AWG, 8/7 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.3Ω.

Also with a multitude of validations on several confirming meter's...28AWG, 9/8, 2mm i.d., m.c.= 1.49Ω √ (1.403 TEMCO). The parentheses being the computed theoretical based on lead length total of 16.25mm.

This is the result of hand-winding, and a net loss of electrical efficiency. More high spots relative to wick heating air, greater possibility of flooding depending on power applied or over-drying wick (scorching), imperceptible hot legs and shorts. Precisely what the tensioned micro coil addresses. I love 5/64" on the Protank, not to take away from Porkchop. More wicking, more power can be applied efficiently on something like a Sig. But not at the expense of what I mentioned. You have to build for the design. Build despite it and it's a compromise of performance, repeatability and predictability of operation.

Hard enough as it is when you conform to the dang tank!

Just sayin'.

This thread is finally coming together fulfilling its purpose and focus on optimizing the vape for the Kanger ProTank. The OP's intent. Getting the damned thing to work. It's been a while in the coming. And after six months it hasn't degenerated into an open exposition of every newb experiment. I'm glad it has taken some direction. It's not perfect. But it may really help a lot of people adapt quickly if people are conscientious about their posts and understand that people suffer going down rabbit holes that depart from solutions for their very real difficulties.

Good luck all!

 

[MacTechVpr]

I have found that drilling the air holes out to 1/16 and leaving the cotton wick long and tucking it around the the bottom of the base dramatically reduces flooding/gurgling. i use 28g kanthol 7-9 wraps on a 5/64 drill bit=1.7-1.9 ohms and no rubber grommet. no dry hits and allmost never gurgles. nice thick vapor and flavor. used on a Vamo V3 at 8-10watts depending on juice. learning how to build these coils saved my Pro-tanks from the trash.

Hey Porkchop, just wanted to answer to let you know I wasn't trying to single you out. First congratulations. Great move for making the effort to quit and I wish you much luck and success.

Next, your airflow notion is a good one. It works and thanks for passing it along. Maz I think posted above on the Aero airflow base and it's excellent to throw on a tank you haven't gotten to. Me if, I'm inclined, I keep the Dremel handy. As I said in my above post really like the extra wick possible in 5/64" but it's extremely difficult for an experienced builder and particularly newcomers to locate, terminate without deforming the coil in some way. The ways this distorts the build are subtle and often difficult to notice or analyze and they reduce the efficiency of the build. I know a little. I've now built over 400 coils for Kangers. Little note on that…you've never seen it all.

What that means is…you don't get as good a vape as the PT can actually deliver. That's why I posted. There are techniques on this thread and others mentioned here that can get you there. And we hope that you're trying them will get you there faster. That's all. For the most part…it just works. The basics. When you got that and have something to compare it to, it means something. To all of us.

But "I use 9 winds of twisted 30" don't let me build what you got, or taste it. And there's a lot of that goin' around. Not you. Just sayin'.

Please…stick around! Post your results if you're successful. It's all welcome, all good.

Didn't mean to come down on ya. And sorry if it sounded like I did.

Good luck at ya porkchop.

 

[Mazinny]

+1. 12 wraps of 28 gauge kanthal on 5/64" mandrel gives me 1.79 ohms. 9 wraps gives me 1.38 ohms. My preferred coil is 9-10 wraps of 28 gauge on 1/16" mandrel for 1.1 - 1.25 ohms on a tight micro coil.

On a Protank, though, the longer leads would explain the higher resistance. I use a Kayfun 3.1 and a Taifun GT day in and day out, so YMMV.

the leads are just a couple mm longer on the protank, than the way i build my kayfun lite ( diagonally and the leads going around the post counter clockwise. the leads on the aspire are longer than the protank though, and i get a slightly higher resistance with the same build than the ones i get on the protank.

btw, i was thinking of purchasing a couple more kayfunlite/russian/taifun type clones. how would you compare the vape and ease of build between youtr kayfun and taifun ?

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

the leads are just a couple mm longer on the protank, than the way i build my kayfun lite ( diagonally and the leads going around the post counter clockwise. the leads on the aspire are longer than the protank though, and i get a slightly higher resistance with the same build than the ones i get on the protank.

btw, i was thinking of purchasing a couple more kayfunlite/russian/taifun type clones. how would you compare the vape and ease of build between youtr kayfun and taifun ?

Both indispensable. Slightly better flavor on the Kayfun, slightly better overall vape on the Taifun. I find myself with the Taifun most of the time. Then I'll alternate and love the K. Then repeat the experience. One of these days we'll get the best of both in a single device. Either way, you can't go wrong. Good luck to you!

 

[Mazinny]

Both indispensable. Slightly better flavor on the Kayfun, slightly better overall vape on the Taifun. I find myself with the Taifun most of the time. Then I'll alternate and love the K. Then repeat the experience. One of these days we'll get the best of both in a single device. Either way, you can't go wrong. Good luck to you!

way to be non-commital ... according to Todd ecigreviews the expromizer is the best of both. anyway, i will wait a little longer before i decide. lets see what other people think of the expromizer. it costs between 50 and 60 euros, which would be the highest price i have ever paid for an atomizer, if i get it, unless it becomes popular and the Chinese clone it soon !

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

way to be non-commital ... according to Todd ecigreviews the expromizer is the best of both. anyway, i will wait a little longer before i decide. lets see what other people think of the expromizer. it costs between 50 and 60 euros, which would be the highest price i have ever paid for an atomizer, if i get it, unless it becomes popular and the Chinese clone it soon !

Yeah, just saw the Expromizer review. I love Todd. However, the fact that he still used silica wrapped with a loose kanthal wrap makes me crazy! I'm quite partial to my micro coils and cotton, and believe it is far superior to the silica wrap that Todd uses. So, I sometimes wonder if Todd knows what's going on. Don't get me wrong, I'm a subscriber and see all his reviews, and dearly love him, but c'mon! Really? Let's get a proper build on. So, for that reason, I checked some other reviews, and they are very impressive. I use the 3.1 Kayfun, so I don't have filling or leaking issues as long as I keep it full, through the fill valve in the side. The KFL+ is one drop from my carpet eating the screw for all time, and I hate that feature, and having to remove the device from the APV. I would gladly pay an extra $25 for the fill valve. Requires a proper filling tip and bottle, but that's no biggie. Got mine from Cloud Nine. Can't wait for the 4.0 to come out in the next 90 days. I'm told by Keith that it checks all the boxes. I hope that means it has all the features we look for in a proper topper.

If the Kayfun and Taifun were not so close in vaping Nirvana, though slightly different, I would more strongly recommend one over the other. They are just that close. Since the 3.1 is no longer made, and the 4.0 is not yet out, I would get the Taifun today over the KFL+. How's that? Anyway, my two cents. YMMV. Good luck!

 

[Mazinny]

Yeah, just saw the Expromizer review. I love Todd. However, the fact that he still used silica wrapped with a loose kanthal wrap makes me crazy! I'm quite partial to my micro coils and cotton, and believe it is far superior to the silica wrap that Todd uses. So, I sometimes wonder if Todd knows what's going on. Don't get me wrong, I'm a subscriber and see all his reviews, and dearly love him, but c'mon! Really? Let's get a proper build on. So, for that reason, I checked some other reviews, and they are very impressive. I use the 3.1 Kayfun, so I don't have filling or leaking issues as long as I keep it full, through the fill valve in the side. The KFL+ is one drop from my carpet eating the screw for all time, and I hate that feature, and having to remove the device from the APV. I would gladly pay an extra $25 for the fill valve. Requires a proper filling tip and bottle, but that's no biggie. Got mine from Cloud Nine. Can't wait for the 4.0 to come out in the next 90 days. I'm told by Keith that it checks all the boxes. I hope that means it has all the features we look for in a proper topper.

If the Kayfun and Taifun were not so close in vaping Nirvana, though slightly different, I would more strongly recommend one over the other. They are just that close. Since the 3.1 is no longer made, and the 4.0 is not yet out, I would get the Taifun today over the KFL+. How's that? Anyway, my two cents. YMMV. Good luck!

Yeah, like Todd a lot also. Somehow comes across as the most earnest reviewer of products ( or advertisers, as Mac likes to call them ). I have another take ; if he gets a good vape with his crappy builds, there is something to be said about the device !

I very rarely buy the original item if it costs over $ 50, be it a mod or an atomizer. I don't feel guilty about it either. The way i see it, there are two distinct markets ; one for the collector types who like to have the genuine item with all its craftsmanship and attention to detail, and another for people who want a functional device at a reasonable price. I fall squarely in the second camp. Having said that i actually tried to purchase the Expromizer, but they don't ship outside of Europe.

I ordered two Kayfun Lite / Russian clones and one Taifun GT clone, to go along with the Russian clone i already have. I will be giving away all my other Clearos packaged with some eGo and Vamo batteries as a starter kit, to friends and family who will make an honest attempt to quit smoking ( except for a couple Protank 2's that i purchased an aerotank base for ).

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Yeah, like Todd a lot also. Somehow comes across as the most earnest reviewer of products ( or advertisers, as Mac likes to call them ). I have another take ; if he gets a good vape with his crappy builds, there is something to be said about the device !

I very rarely buy the original item if it costs over $ 50, be it a mod or an atomizer. I don't feel guilty about it either. The way i see it, there are two distinct markets ; one for the collector types who like to have the genuine item with all its craftsmanship and attention to detail, and another for people who want a functional device at a reasonable price. I fall squarely in the second camp. Having said that i actually tried to purchase the Expromizer, but they don't ship outside of Europe.

I ordered two Kayfun Lite / Russian clones and one Taifun GT clone, to go along with the Russian clone i already have. I will be giving away all my other Clearos packaged with some eGo and Vamo batteries as a starter kit, to friends and family who will make an honest attempt to quit smoking ( except for a couple Protank 2's that i purchased an aerotank base for ).

I get it. But, there is a third camp....those that believe that if we don't support our innovators, we won't see any innovations. It's not like the Chinese are doing it. Most of the best high end gear comes from Europe and the U.S. I've bought clones and have mostly bad experiences, but an occasional good experience. The HCigar Taifun was a good experience, though I did buy two originals after trying the clone. Different strokes. It appears there are enough suporters of the original gear to make your clone purchas a non-issue, so not to worry, lol. I'm just glad we have the high end gear, because the poor gear did not work for me in 2009 and again in 2011. I have been full time vaping over a year now, because of the better gear. we've come a long way. My two cents. YMMV.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I get it. But, there is a third camp....those that believe that if we don't support our innovators, we won't see any innovations. It's not like the Chinese are doing it. Most of the best high end gear comes from Europe and the U.S. I've bought clones and have mostly bad experiences, but an occasional good experience. The HCigar Taifun was a good experience, though I did buy two originals after trying the clone. Different strokes. It appears there are enough suporters of the original gear to make your clone purchas a non-issue, so not to worry, lol. I'm just glad we have the high end gear, because the poor gear did not work for me in 2009 and again in 2011. I have been full time vaping over a year now, because of the better gear. we've come a long way. My two cents. YMMV.

We are the quality control for China (and we're not doing a very good job at it either).

Just sayin'.

Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Yeah, like Todd a lot also. Somehow comes across as the most earnest reviewer of products ( or advertisers, as Mac likes to call them ). I have another take ; if he gets a good vape with his crappy builds, there is something to be said about the device !

Todd and Grim can go head-to-head on those loose winds (but I wouldn't want to vape 'em after break-in).

It's all theater (don't trust everything you see with your own eyes). Do like 'em both though and applaud them, all of 'em for the enthusiasm they create in the community. It's worth every authentic test mod they get. Like the music biz, the producers get all the glory (the real green).

But did you notice Pete's new close-up desk mount cam??? Neat toy! Ought'a get me one.

(Must be blind as a bat like me!)

Good luck all.

 

[bcollier9253]

After seeing Tripps video on Nano Micro Coil I decided to wrap one up. 28 ga 12/11 wrap on a 20 ga needle@1.1 ohm. A little tight in that little Protank cup. Stuck it in my PT2 and at 14 watt on my SVD that thing CRANKS out some amazing flavor and vapor... BUT... After maybe 8 or 10 hits it started to taste a little rubbery even though I had a silicone positive insulator in there. Come to think of it though it could have been the juice. A DIY juice I made. Tangerine, Key Lime, and Sweet Cream,maybe the cream was getting too hot

 

[MacTechVpr]

After seeing Tripps video on Nano Micro Coil I decided to wrap one up. 28 ga 12/11 wrap on a 20 ga needle@1.1 ohm. A little tight in that little Protank cup. Stuck it in my PT2 and at 14 watt on my SVD that thing CRANKS out some amazing flavor and vapor... BUT... After maybe 8 or 10 hits it started to taste a little rubbery even though I had a silicone positive insulator in there. Come to think of it though it could have been the juice. A DIY juice I made. Tangerine, Key Lime, and Sweet Cream,maybe the cream was getting too hot

Way to go b! You've come a long way. But Rip doesn't tell us just how hard it is to keep the leads from shorting on a 28g/12-wind. And that's the rubbery smell you were likely tasting. Hope you're sticking to Metalhed's thread on installation and will try the tension wind, if you haven't already.

Good luck b!



p.s. Silicone grommets do not prevent shorts. It just masks the smell for most of us. Silicone actually starts to scorch off at a lower temp than the previous grommets I believe. Shorts are caused by imperfect electrical coils.

 

[bcollier9253]

Yessir, pretty proud of myself, I was so overwhelmed when I first started reading up on all this stuff. I'll have to check those tension heads out. I'm guessing just look them up on YouTube?