Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

[MacTechVpr]

Yessir, pretty proud of myself, I was so overwhelmed when I first started reading up on all this stuff. I'll have to check those tension heads out. I'm guessing just look them up on YouTube?

That's great bc. I've been trackin' ya. You're on my friends list. And I always look after my buds. There's lots of information on this thread on making a tensioned contact micro coil. I urge you to do it. It is the absolutely needed first step to stopping the burny grommet problem you describe. Build a good coil on a screwdriver directly from the spool, it takes seconds, and you go a long way to stopping the shorts that plauge all clearomizers. When you start that you might want to revisit Metalheds thread...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/tips-tricks/463771-protank-cotton-rebuild-way-i-do.html...

to iron out the details on locating the coil and finishing off connections. Very important. Your vape will continue to improve as you find ways to improve on these basics. I'm still doin' it. And re-reading much of what I've written as well as others on this very important topic.

Feel free to tap me on the shoulder bc, anytime.

Good luck.

 

[bcollier9253]

Thanks Mac! I have yet to find a 18mm screwdriver around here in the stores, if that is still the screwdriver of choice. I got a jewler buddy that I may try to get one off of. Can you tell me at about what thread you start talking about the tension wind? I may be already doing that and not knowing if it involves keeping the wire good an taught and the coils close during the wind.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Thanks Mac! I have yet to find a 18mm screwdriver around here in the stores, if that is still the screwdriver of choice. I got a jewler buddy that I may try to get one off of. Can you tell me at about what thread you start talking about the tension wind? I may be already doing that and not knowing if it involves keeping the wire good an taught and the coils close during the wind.

The slot width on most BC clearo's is 1.8mm (usually a few thousands over). So mostly 1.8mm (or .07" which is 1.778mm) will fit into it. Sometimes I find very inexpensive screwdriver kits that have a pair, marked 3/43", actually about .07" which is perfect. They have the latter on eBay. Just google 3/43" and you should find them. This will make your life incredibly simple. Trust me.

I wind a lot of different ways and this by far is the fastest and most reliable. That's the funny part. It's consistent. It's amazing how well our brains work to measure the tension. At any age, 'cause I'm no youngster. LOL

Good luck bc.

 

[coalyard]

Great thread! I have been able to do the contact micro coil thing using a 16ga needle attached to a syringe for leverage. I guess 16ga wouldn't technically be considered a micro coil, but the damn things are working just great, and very repeatable. I am using 30ga kanthal, and I have wound 1.8, 2.0, 1.8, 1.9 ohm respectively for the coils I have done, which I am thrilled with. I am wicking these with organic cotton, not boiled.

Thanks, Mac, and everyone else on this thread for the knowledge. I am a happy camper...

 

[M_DuBb716]

Thanks Mac for keeping this thread going, and for all the great info & insight as always! Glad this thread helped you coalyard and bc, sounds like you guys are on the right track. My 1/16in (1.5875mm) drill bit is my favorite size to wrap on for my Protanks and such, I also loved using my 16g needle to wrap on, before I dropped it down my sink drain a few weeks ago hah

I just got my first rebuildable, a Nimbus Clone, but haven't really tried it out yet

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Great thread! I have been able to do the contact micro coil thing using a 16ga needle attached to a syringe for leverage. I guess 16ga wouldn't technically be considered a micro coil, but the damn things are working just great, and very repeatable. I am using 30ga kanthal, and I have wound 1.8, 2.0, 1.8, 1.9 ohm respectively for the coils I have done, which I am thrilled with. I am wicking these with organic cotton, not boiled.

Thanks, Mac, and everyone else on this thread for the knowledge. I am a happy camper...

16 gauge is the top of the micro coil chart. Micro coils are considered mc between .055 and .065 inches. 16 ga is 0.065". Here's a chart for your reference:

View attachment Microcoils and Resistance Chart.pdf

While I use both 1/16" and 5/64" mandrels to build my coils on, only the 1/16" is "technically" a mc. For me, they are both micro coils if they have the proper tension and contact. On some threads this is blasphemy. Oh well....Just sayin'.

 

[f1vefour]

While I use both 1/16" and 5/64" mandrels to build my coils on, only the 1/16" is "technically" a mc.

Who is defining this technicality?

 

[coalyard]

16 gauge is the top of the micro coil chart. Micro coils are considered mc between .055 and .065 inches. 16 ga is 0.065". Here's a chart for your reference:

View attachment 314724

While I use both 1/16" and 5/64" mandrels to build my coils on, only the 1/16" is "technically" a mc. For me, they are both micro coils if they have the proper tension and contact. On some threads this is blasphemy. Oh well....Just sayin'.

Yep, I see that. Truth be told, I wasn't really all that concerned about it further than making sure I was using the proper terminology to be on the same page with everyone else here. What works well works well, as long as it can be replicated and documented. That is one of the things that has impressed me the most with this thread, and the people posting; the desire to come up with a standard beyond the usual "8 wraps of 32ga around a mini screwdriver, stuffed with cotton". I spent a good deal of my career building printed circuit boards, including prototyping and as an engineering tech. The importance of documentation and repeatability cannot be stressed enough to achieve consistent good results. The best thing is, it's really not all that difficult to do, which is not meant to diminish the contributions of many here. I am standing on some pretty firm shoulders.

I do have some 18ga needles I intend to build on as well, and I will share my results as I get them. Thanks again, all!

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Who is defining this technicality?

There are several threads on ECF about micro coils and the "definition" is fairly ingrained for the last year. These are the same folks who came up with the micro coil in the first place for our vaping use. I can direct you to some of these 10,000 post threads if you like. I had the same question btw. I prefer to use the standard definition of .055 - .065 inches, rather than have a 100 veterans read me the riot act. I asked innocently just once, and got bombarded. Easier to just go with the flow. YMMV. Good luck!

 

[MacTechVpr]

16 gauge is the top of the micro coil chart. Micro coils are considered mc between .055 and .065 inches. 16 ga is 0.065". Here's a chart for your reference:

View attachment 314724

While I use both 1/16" and 5/64" mandrels to build my coils on, only the 1/16" is "technically" a mc. For me, they are both micro coils if they have the proper tension and contact. On some threads this is blasphemy. Oh well....Just sayin'.

Thanks for kicking in Bill. Yes I find the whole conundrum unfortunate. I hate the thought of a language police patrolling the communication spectrum of vaping. I also think the pretense of insisting on diameter to the exclusion of function fascinating. The one saving grace would be that the expression clarify both functionality and specification but it doesn't. And that is what really riles my bacon in that insistence on this hurts newcomers to vaping, those who would move on from the box-house preprack's to rebuilding and the real enjoyment that the rest of this community enjoys. This seems to me exclusionary and frankly, elitist.

I am devoted to the notion of helping EVERYBODY VAPE NOW! Period. And I really don't care what you call it.

But I damn well will describe what a contact micro coil does with my language. And if the language is inadequate I will deploy what is required to convey the message. Some take exception to that. Their problem. Not mine. I didn't create the broader generalized and grossly inappropriate use that has arisen outside the sphere of this venue which only further adds to the confusion.

'Nough said. I'll keep on rebuilding newer and better variations, speaking to the subject of what makes a successful coil with the effect and hope even more of you join in.

Good luck all! Enjoy the vape.

 

[Mazinny]

I get it. But, there is a third camp....those that believe that if we don't support our innovators, we won't see any innovations. It's not like the Chinese are doing it. Most of the best high end gear comes from Europe and the U.S. I've bought clones and have mostly bad experiences, but an occasional good experience. The HCigar Taifun was a good experience, though I did buy two originals after trying the clone. Different strokes. It appears there are enough suporters of the original gear to make your clone purchas a non-issue, so not to worry, lol. I'm just glad we have the high end gear, because the poor gear did not work for me in 2009 and again in 2011. I have been full time vaping over a year now, because of the better gear. we've come a long way. My two cents. YMMV.

I agree up to a point, re innovation. Atomizers have come on leaps and bounds in the past two years, and there is innovation going on, and very little of it in China, which is odd since they started it all. But when it comes to mechanical devices, I don't see the innovation. It's a metal tube and some conductive material. I find it incredible that people are willing to pay upwards of $ 200 for that, if it's not for the collectability aspect or the craftsmanship.

I have had the opposite experience to you with clones. I have only had two clnes which were duds, and I returned them for a refund. The rest have worked well for me. Probably because, I buy clones that have a lot of good reviews on fasttech.

Thankfully, there is a market for both.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Thanks for kicking in Bill. Yes I find the whole conundrum unfortunate. I hate the thought of a language police patrolling the communication spectrum of vaping. I also think the pretense of insisting on diameter to the exclusion of function fascinating. The one saving grace would be that the expression clarify both functionality and specification but it doesn't. And that is what really riles my bacon in that insistence on this hurts newcomers to vaping, those who would move on from the box-house preprack's to rebuilding and the real enjoyment that the rest of this community enjoys. This seems to me exclusionary and frankly, elitist.

I am devoted to the notion of helping EVERYBODY VAPE NOW! Period. And I really don't care what you call it.

But I damn well will describe what a contact micro coil does with my language. And if the language is inadequate I will deploy what is required to convey the message. Some take exception to that. Their problem. Not mine. I didn't create the broader generalized and grossly inappropriate use that has arisen outside the sphere of this venue which only further adds to the confusion.

'Nough said. I'll keep on rebuilding newer and better variations, speaking to the subject of what makes a successful coil with the effect and hope even more of you join in.

Good luck all! Enjoy the vape.

Well said. I'm all about the Effect as you well know, and have been working to get there rather vigorously. Been using 29 gauge lately and can't say I notice a big difference between it and the 28 guage. They're both good. Like I said, I mostly use the 1/16" mandrels these days, but I can't say I get a much better Effect between it and the 5/64". Frankly, that's a pretty narrow range when you think about it, but to some, one is Nirvana, the other....well, outside of spec and tolerance, LOL. I don't know, I just love vaping, passed my one year without smoking a couple of months ago, and find the micro coil with cotton to be a superb setup in my RTA's. Works for me. If it gets better than this, then GREAT! But, it's pretty great now. Just sayin'....

 

[MacTechVpr]

Well said. I'm all about the Effect as you well know, and have been working to get there rather vigorously. Been using 29 gauge lately and can't say I notice a big difference between it and the 28 guage. They're both good. Like I said, I mostly use the 1/16" mandrels these days, but I can't say I get a much better Effect between it and the 5/64". Frankly, that's a pretty narrow range when you think about it, but to some, one is Nirvana, the other....well, outside of spec and tolerance, LOL. I don't know, I just love vaping, passed my one year without smoking a couple of months ago, and find the micro coil with cotton to be a superb setup in my RTA's. Works for me. If it gets better than this, then GREAT! But, it's pretty great now. Just sayin'....

Thanks and congratulations.

I love 5/64" for vaping. And outside of the clearo's it's my most used profile. It's all about the temp where the electronics is concerned; however, it's all about the wick when it comes to taste and flavor. We want as much wick as possible, whenever possible. But you wouldn't try to cook a turkey in a frying pan though. It has to fit the form factor and comform to the performance spec's (or limitations as in the KPT) of the overall build — mod, batt and element. That's where I stepped in to try and quantify that. The best shot at a great vape for the Kanger line is to fill the slot, the most conforming wick media is the Nextel wick for its ease of threading, durability, flavor neutrality, amazing capillary action and efficient handling of power at all resistance values, high and low. It's just an amazing wind. I've recently discovered just how amazing in the genny atomizer. Zen's simple and elegant solution remains at the end of the day absolute genius, a dripper and a tank. Don't that beat all? It did, and still does.

However, the best is yet to come and I believe in preparation meets opportunity.

Good luck!

 

[Mazinny]

Thanks and congratulations.

I love 5/64" for vaping. And outside of the clearo's it's my most used profile. It's all about the temp where the electronics is concerned; however, it's all about the wick when it comes to taste and flavor. We want as much wick as possible, whenever possible. But you wouldn't try to cook a turkey in a frying pan though. It has to fit the form factor and comform to the performance spec's (or limitations as in the KPT) of the overall build — mod, batt and element. That's where I stepped in to try and quantify that. The best shot at a great vape for the Kanger line is to fill the slot, the most conforming wick media is the Nextel wick for its ease of threading, durability, flavor neutrality, amazing capillary action and efficient handling of power at all resistance values, high and low. It's just an amazing wind. I've recently discovered just how amazing in the genny atomizer. Zen's simple and elegant solution remains at the end of the day absolute genius, a dripper and a tank. Don't that beat all? It did, and still does.

However, the best is yet to come and I believe in preparation meets opportunity.

Good luck!

I have never seen Nextel. Why would it be easier to thread than silica ? How much does it cost per foot ? Where can we buy it ?

 

[Mazinny]

Thanks and congratulations.

it's all about the wick when it comes to taste and flavor. We want as much wick as possible, whenever possible. It has to fit the form factor and comform to the performance spec's (or limitations as in the KPT) of the overall build — mod, batt and element. That's where I stepped in to try and quantify that.

when you have time Mac, could you expand on this. Why is it so ? Thanks

 

[f1vefour]

when you have time Mac, could you expand on this. Why is it so ? Thanks

Don't worry, he loves expanding on things

 

[coalyard]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/tips-tricks/463771-protank-cotton-rebuild-way-i-do-26.html

 

[M_DuBb716]

Hah, I've been saying it for months but I really want to try out some nextel. I love cotton and the flavor it gives but it gets frustrating to deal with sometimes.

When I started this thread, I wish I named it "Protank Contact-Coil Discussion!" instead, that would make more sense!

 

[coalyard]

Yes, I have been curious about Nextel as wicking myself. I think I will try it since I now have a decent way to actually thread it in the coil via Mac spilling the beans...Cotton is great, but as you said, pretty fussy; you have to get it just right, and it is heaven.

It is amazing how things progress, at least for me. I used to think the stock ProTanks were great, the Iclear 30s even better. Then I wound a coil for one of my ProTanks. Hmmm. Then I found this thread, and did a proper contact micro coil. Wowza! Don't get me wrong, the 30s is still a fine clearomizer; I own 4 of them. It's just that the PT2's with these coils just sing. I now have relegated my Iclears to "going out" devices because they are pretty trouble free, and never leak. If I am at home, one of the PT2's is on my device.

Time to invest in a couple of proper RBA's.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Yes, I have been curious about Nextel as wicking myself. I think I will try it since I now have a decent way to actually thread it in the coil via Mac spilling the beans...Cotton is great, but as you said, pretty fussy; you have to get it just right, and it is heaven.

It is amazing how things progress, at least for me. I used to think the stock ProTanks were great, the Iclear 30s even better. Then I wound a coil for one of my ProTanks. Hmmm. Then I found this thread, and did a proper contact micro coil. Wowza! Don't get me wrong, the 30s is still a fine clearomizer; I own 4 of them. It's just that the PT2's with these coils just sing. I now have relegated my Iclears to "going out" devices because they are pretty trouble free, and never leak. If I am at home, one of the PT2's is on my device.

Time to invest in a couple of proper RBA's.

Youza! Your above observation is right on the money.

I wish I had time to answer you all on your specific questions. My calendar has filled up this week. I can tell you briefly I intend to write on these two subjects. First, Nextel XC-132 threads very easily into .07" which is the ideal Ø for this media and typical clearo assemblies. Secondly, following a brief test with a conventional (non-tension) micro on 5/64" I confirmed my very early experiences with Nextel in Kanger's, etc. Nextel REQUIRES a contact fit. In fact, in every atomizer there should be a uniform contact fit of wick to coil. Any high spots will be hot, uncooled by juice and basically vaporizing air. Result…a warmer drier vape which to some may seem, "ah, awesome, airflow." NOT. What you have is a hot element, a marginal short.

In the limited test I did I experienced something that I have for some time virtually eliminated…rapid discoloration (darkening, scorching) of eliquid. That happened within 24-hours! To me proof positive, irrefutable, that the above is taking place. Because that is the fastest way to discolor juice, rapidly overheat it. However, the overwhelmingly RED FLAG evidence of an oversized coil was the extreme overheating of the KPT while chaining, routine for me, sometimes in just six pulls. Too hot to the touch!

I painstakingly built this 5/64" reprise of early experimentation, making sure that termination was flawless, resistance on target precisely and a dark room test for any thermal indication of a high spot or lead during pulse burn in. The result is to my view then very obviously the wicking which was loose.

There is an optimal for each device. We can't remake or reinvent that no matter how accomplished modder's we think we might be. And no amount of vertical or any which way we can do it is going to change that. We are confined by the physics. Push the envelope maybe (I did here). But if you want a great vape, conform your build to the best identified capabilities of the device.

That's what I've been sayin' folks. From the get go.

Get yer tools right here on this thread.

Good luck.