Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

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PaulBHC

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I think there are more people sensitive to pg than vg and that is why the move to vg. Plus it gives more cloud.

People get paranoid about things with "poly" in the name but vegetable glycerin sounds cozy.

In the home NET forum the people say that pg is a better solvent than vg for extracting flavors so that is probably why commercial flavor vendors use it more than vg.
 

chanelvaps

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Yes I have heard this also


I think there are more people sensitive to pg than vg and that is why the move to vg. Plus it gives more cloud.

People get paranoid about things with "poly" in the name but vegetable glycerin sounds cozy.

In the home NET forum the people say that pg is a better solvent than vg for extracting flavors so that is probably why commercial flavor vendors use it more than vg.
 

cigatron

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In Tanks:
When I did vape favored juices my preference was anywhere from 50/50 to 20/80 pg/vg. Anything greater than 80vg required SUPER light wicking density even with kgd. juice flow was just not fast enough to keep up with my chaining habit. Anything greater than 50pg gives me chest/throat irritation and I can be irritating enough without that.lol
Somewhere between 50/50 and 60/40 pg/vg seemed to produce the best balance between vapor production, throat hit and flavor In a PT for me.

In drippers: VG all the way baby.

Thanks to Russ' (superxdrifter) mention of how good unflavored vg tastes I've gone that route, kind of.
Now vaping 50/50 6mg/ml unflavored nic base in my tanks and 100% vg in my drippers @ 05¢ per ml. Talk about vap'n on the cheap! And......what wick changes? 2437 4second puffs and wait.........2438 and counting on this kgd wick with no washing, blow outs or dryburns.

Just say'n

p.s. should have mentioned I'm getting an average of 75 4sec puffs per ml @ 8.5 watts with my MPT2's to give you folks an idea of what kind of vapor production and efficiency is possible. Learned it all here on ECF.

:)cig
 
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Bill's Magic Vapor

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So if pg is the flavor carrier and vg is vapor why does everyone seem to prefer higher vg? Is this a vendor issue?

Vapor production declines dramatically with PG. And so does flavor as far as I'm concerned. Now taste, that's a horse of a different color. And texture is most definitely part of taste. But I don't need throat hit or dryness to define my flavors.

So sombadi pleez to 'splain gwy we juz pee-jee?

SOTB

I agree Mac, throat hit has become a far less priority to me over time! As I said it could be vendor issues that cloud the flavor. I have found that some vendors at least with me, the longer you steep the less flavor you have.

Forgive the ignorance here, but if pg is flavor, how can a 70vg/30pg carry the same flavor as 30vg/70pg?

You can DIY any juice with superb flavoring and high VG. I do all the time, and I don't sacrifice a thing.....wonderful flavor and vapor.
 

MacTechVpr

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I have almost always been 50/50. Deviated a few times, when I heard PG gave more flavor to 70pg. Got heartburn and acne. Deviated the other way on occasion because some fo the things I like are a higher VG (Omega and Cyclops) but too much of that gives me phlegm so I only do it in small doses.
preference is 50/50

OMG, you too! Honestly thought for the longest time I was alone. Scary.

Thanks!

Good luck.

:)
 

MacTechVpr

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I have done my NET extracts with 100% to 75% pg for the extraction process. From there I mix my juice to 30/70 pg/vg. Not for clouds, for comfort.

Yep, and that's about as much as I can handle. Which I have for testing and tediously suffering it. The intolerance became pretty clear after a while.

Good luck.

:)
 

crg31953

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You can DIY any juice with superb flavoring and high VG. I do all the time, and I don't sacrifice a thing.....wonderful flavor and vapor.

Maybe you and I will have to get into the diy issue soon, real soon!
I have been thinking about it for a while but really don't know where to start.

From A Galaxy Far Away
 

Bill's Magic Vapor

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Maybe you and I will have to get into the diy issue soon, real soon!
I have been thinking about it for a while but really don't know where to start.

From A Galaxy Far Away

I post frequently on this thread:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/336110-flavor-apprentice-flavoring-thread.html

Go back about a month or two and read to the current posts. You will find a real wealth of information, and at least 50 very good recipes. Promise! Good luck!
 

CMD-Ky

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I started mixing my own about two months ago. I aim for 10 to 12 mg nicotine and 70-75 % VG. The "throat hit" is minimal and at that ratio my mouth doesn't dry out, the wicks stay moist and flavor is just fine. I have never gotten anything that I like as much as HHV Heavenly Tobacco but mine has been good. However, I never spend $40 for 100 ml either. Between mixing and coiling, my lawn needs bailing. Good thing winter is approaching.
 

chet

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You're welcome. You could have a short with a constant low res. Been there from the get go. What was the number of wraps. Have you checked the theoretical parameters for your build? The premise I espouse is resistance targets. Easy to do on an external build such as a dripper as the consequences (typically) are visible. Harder in a tank. I've gained some respect for Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators in helping me determine whether the resistance I've reached is friend or foe.

A check of the grommet termination and res spec should help isolate the problem. I mean certainly wicking material can be a contributor but at the heart of the issue regardless is heat generated. Where's the source? A loose turn? Technically a short (wire heating air not work, higher than req res). I think the opposite of your situation but maybe not. Perhaps you should be lower as we see your turn count.

Good luck chet and I'd love to know the outcome.

Thanks.

:)

p.s. My read on steam-engine...28AWG, 8/7, 1.5 i.d. 2.0 mm i.d., m.c.= 1.173Ω, fyi.

p.s.s. BTW, great choice of batt for a PT variable. I've been workin' my original collection hard for well over a year now without a single failure. Still running strong, recharge consistently to full voltage (XTAR VP1). Got bunches but can't imagine I haven't exceeded the rated life cycles on these beauties. Obviously keeping short stress down pays dividends.

I never knew the Steam Engine website and it's so awesome. Thanks!
Before I investigate the coil I decided to vape it some more, and after about 20 puffs or so later it started to perform really well with good flavor. So I was like.. "oh? well.. nice!" Maybe it's because I didn't preheat the coil before inserting the wick, and what I was tasting was the brand new coil smell of some kind? I did count the wraps which was about 9 wraps, so it perfectly fits what the Steam Engine showed too. So I guess I'll leave it the way it is for a while. Back to happy vapin'!
 
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MacTechVpr

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I never knew the Steam Engine website and it's so awesome. Thanks!
Before I investigate the coil I decided to vape it some more, and after about 20 puffs or so later it started to perform really well with good flavor. So I was like.. "oh? well.. nice!" Maybe it's because I didn't preheat the coil before inserting the wick, and what I was tasting was the brand new coil smell of some kind? I did count the wraps which was about 9 wraps, so it perfectly fits what the Steam Engine showed too. So I guess I'll leave it the way it is for a while. Back to happy vapin'!

Thank you very much for confirming that chet. It's really quite common to see coils go erratically hot when being pulsed into life. And for bad flavor to result if the process of creating them by pulsing isn't completed (whether pre torched, compressed or not).

Please listen up all you dedicated tension winders…these are important tips.

Microcoils whether tensioned or compressed may exhibit hot turns or leads when initially fired anywhere that there is a deviation in symmetry. These deviations are caused by stresses introduced into the coil (pulling apart) through handling, tensioning, etc. that alter the original shape of the coil as wound. Or they could be the result of graduations in the tension applied while winding. You will see consequently variations in resistance typically to the low side...until oxidation begins and possibly beyond until completed. This is typical. We all vary in consistency. If deviations are numerous and spacing abundant between turns, as with torched and compressed coils, this may take quite a while. If they are severe, you may never achieve adequate alumina oxide fusion of the turns and the wind will remain unstable and squirrel-ly in behavior.

The more exact the symmetry, the more uniformly consistent the alumina oxidation of a coil and the more durably, reliably, that the coil will perform.

I strongly recommend you consider tension winding your coils in 30 seconds or less. I experience a ratio of better than 55% first fire microcoils (exhibiting the effect) with tension winding. That means less handling risk to the symmetry that you may experience, less firing losses and rewinds, the more consistent you become in winding them in those 30 seconds. The more you do, the more they're good. A great formula for success.

I'd say the performance of a uniform tension wound coil is nothing less than spectacular compared to a conventional coil of any kind. So much so that I reject most anything that doesn't fire full micro in a couple'a three pops. It's just not worth it. And seldom does a formed (torched and compressed) micro ever do that. You almost always have to cure inconsistencies that could have been averted by a simple wind.

You may need to pulse a t.mc. 2 or 3 times even if the tension applied is relatively consistent end to end. That's not unusual. We're none of us perfect. You may see reversals of the coil heating end-to-end as you do so (and squeeze or compress the coil). These are indications that stress was introduced into the wind as you set it in the head. It's essential you terminate it on the mandrel you used to wind it to avoid these stresses. Induced stresses will extend the amount and intensity of pulses required to fuse the coil and perhaps degrade it with firing. Another reason that focus on tensioning consistently builds a better coil. You may be able to complete a coil successfully despite this if the tension was fairly even.

Additional stresses, frequently varying tension such as mismatches of tension between the leads, can be relieved at times by raking the top of the coil before and as you pulse it. My kudos to super_X_drifter here, who conceived the microcoil, for this very practical observation. Raking cures misalignment of the original symmetry. It causes the coil to snap out of position and then snap back (hopefully) into the shape it was wound. It may take a few tries. THEN…you will see the coil resume it's actual wound wire length resistance. Proceed confidently to complete oxidation. You've got a winner!

These are tips that hopefully may get you through the first few fires quickly rather than be tempted to burn the coil to death pulsing and squeezing. I very seldom do much compression these days and if so very lightly using a ceramic tweezers. It seems the very act of compression particularly as the coil is hot and malleable affords yet another opportunity to skew and mangle the coil. So much of the hardware and mechanics we have learned and grown accustomed to are largely unnecessary, or redundant. We just have to wind a good coil.

So me, I wind another when they misbehave. It takes seconds. And time is precious friends.

I hope this helps…and please, wind that tensioned, and good.

Good luck.

:)
 

chet

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Thank you very much for confirming that chet. It's really quite common to see coils go erratically hot when being pulsed into life. And for bad flavor to result if the process of creating them by pulsing isn't completed (whether pre torched, compressed or not).

Please listen up all you dedicated tension winders…these are important tips.

Microcoils whether tensioned or compressed may exhibit hot turns or leads when initially fired anywhere that there is a deviation in symmetry. These deviations are caused by stresses introduced into the coil (pulling apart) through handling, tensioning, etc. that alter the original shape of the coil as wound. Or they could be the result of graduations in the tension applied while winding. You will see consequently variations in resistance typically to the low side...until oxidation begins and possibly beyond until completed. This is typical. We all vary in consistency. If deviations are numerous and spacing abundant between turns, as with torched and compressed coils, this may take quite a while. If they are severe, you may never achieve adequate alumina oxide fusion of the turns and the wind will remain unstable and squirrel-ly in behavior.

The more exact the symmetry, the more uniformly consistent the alumina oxidation of a coil and the more durably, reliably, that the coil will perform.

I strongly recommend you consider tension winding your coils in 30 seconds or less. I experience a ratio of better than 55% first fire microcoils (exhibiting the effect) with tension winding. That means less handling risk to the symmetry that you may experience, less firing losses and rewinds, the more consistent you become in winding them in those 30 seconds. The more you do, the more they're good. A great formula for success.

I'd say the performance of a uniform tension wound coil is nothing less than spectacular compared to a conventional coil of any kind. So much so that I reject most anything that doesn't fire full micro in a couple'a three pops. It's just not worth it. And seldom does a formed (torched and compressed) micro ever do that. You almost always have to cure inconsistencies that could have been averted by a simple wind.

You may need to pulse a t.mc. 2 or 3 times even if the tension applied is relatively consistent end to end. That's not unusual. We're none of us perfect. You may see reversals of the coil heating end-to-end as you do so (and squeeze or compress the coil). These are indications that stress was introduced into the wind as you set it in the head. It's essential you terminate it on the mandrel you used to wind it to avoid these stresses. Induced stresses will extend the amount and intensity of pulses required to fuse the coil and perhaps degrade it with firing. Another reason that focus on tensioning consistently builds a better coil. You may be able to complete a coil successfully despite this if the tension was fairly even.

Additional stresses, frequently varying tension such as mismatches of tension between the leads, can be relieved at times by raking the top of the coil before and as you pulse it. My kudos to super_X_drifter here, who conceived the microcoil, for this very practical observation. Raking cures misalignment of the original symmetry. It causes the coil to snap out of position and then snap back (hopefully) into the shape it was wound. It may take a few tries. THEN…you will see the coil resume it's actual wound wire length resistance. Proceed confidently to complete oxidation. You've got a winner!

These are tips that hopefully may get you through the first few fires quickly rather than be tempted to burn the coil to death pulsing and squeezing. I very seldom do much compression these days and if so very lightly using a ceramic tweezers. It seems the very act of compression particularly as the coil is hot and malleable affords yet another opportunity to skew and mangle the coil. So much of the hardware and mechanics we have learned and grown accustomed to are largely unnecessary, or redundant. We just have to wind a good coil.

So me, I wind another when they misbehave. It takes seconds. And time is precious friends.

I hope this helps…and please, wind that tensioned, and good.

Good luck.

:)

That's a very helpful tip to remember.
If I owned a university I'd create a degree program for coil rebuilding and hire you as a professor in chief. :)
 

MacTechVpr

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That's a very helpful tip to remember.
If I owned a university I'd create a degree program for coil rebuilding and hire you as a professor in chief. :)

:D

It really is a formula for KISS even as I embellish it with prose. I'm a lazy MF really. Hate to do things twice. So the way I figure it…the less fiddle, the lass faddle.

Thx, and good luck.

:)
 

crg31953

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:D

It really is a formula for KISS even as I embellish it with prose. I'm a lazy MF really. Hate to do things twice. So the way I figure it…the less fiddle, the lass faddle.

Thx, and good luck.

:)

I don't know bud, I'm not a fan of Jean Simons or Kiss?

[emoji13][emoji12]

From A Galaxy Far Away
 
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